How Are We Saved?

[Carbon]

I am not Calvinist.

And that is okay.

And I had asked them to the clarify a segment in their Statement of Faith but apparently, they see nothing wrong with it. Fortunately, they do not insists on agreeing with that Statement of faith to join the forum.

We are letting you and others know our beliefs. These beliefs I will defend.

As for CARM, I have been there and their anti-KJVO stance in being prejudicial to all who prefer the KJV in spte of placing KJVO in a Theology section rather than the cult. Almost like baiting us. And at that time my personal computer was hacked and crashed twice. I could not tell if it was TalkJesus or CARM or something totally unrelated as my folks' home is not protected as there have been intrusions into the home at night and while we are away. For a while there though I had believed CARM had done it, but regardless the Lord has helped me to forgive whoever did it.

I thank the Lord He enables me to sleep at night in spite of the ongoing oppression and persecution going on in my life.

So think of what you share in the forum like investing your talents. You never know.

But if the Lord leads you away, then do so, forgiving them you leave behind as Christ has forgiven you.

Ephesians 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

As far as the KJV is concerned I have no issue with it, it has been used by many to proclaim the gospel. But I do not believe it is anymore inspired than any other Christian bible.

 

[Carbon]

i am not out to prove nothing. the same remarks in this forum is the same type remarks in carm.

If you see it that way, and that bothers you, I'm sorry.

 

[KatarinaVonBora]

My own case. I didn't respond to the gospel the first time it was presented to me, nor the second time, nor the third, nor. . .

One can grow up hearing the gospel in church for years without responding to it.

God made the choice. He is a safe and loving Savior. I'm so happy to see you here!

A good many of us were rebellious children, me too!

 

[QVQ]

I'm thinking you are pastor jerry. I'm pretty sure I used to see your posts at CARM. There is a saying that seems to be applicable here. "Wherever I go, I take me with me." Consider that the problem you are having is your own. Thriving forums have Calvinists users.

I hope you won't leave. The majority of us are reformed believers here but I have found that Arminians and Calvinists can get along without backbiting. You can have a different point of view.

Praying for you.

What is CARM?

 

[KatarinaVonBora]

What is CARM?

CARM is research Christian forum owned by Calvivist Matt Slick.

 

[QVQ]

Thank you

 

[Manfred]

When we are born again of the Spirit after hearing the gospel, then we have that fruit of the Spirit, "faith" to believe in Jesus Christ.

Faith is a fruit of the Spirit?
Faith is granted and we do the believing.

It is not on us as believing, but on the Father enabling us to believe by giving us the Holy Spirit upon hearing the word that by believing in Him is how one receives the remission of sins thus they are born again of the Spirit to be able to believe in Him.

This is a confusing sentence.
If you are saying that faith does not come before regeneration then state that.

It is the Father that does the drawing, not the Holy Spirit.

Apples and oranges. The Father draws by the Holy Spirit.
Joh 16:8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:
Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I have no problem with that. How does God do the drawing, and when do you presume it starts?

The Father hides the truth from the prudent and reveals the truth to even the babes.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Correct

Our believing in Jesus Christ is a manifested work of the Father.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
What the Holy Spirit will convict of is the unforgivable sin of never having believed in Jesus Christ.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

I am sure the Lord can lead others to make a better poll since I am not perfect yet. Feel free yourself to be led by the Lord to create a better one.

I said that because the righteousness of Christ was not included.

For having offended you I do apologize.

 

[ReverendRV]

this is not working out at all this forum has turned into carm and the expert theologian was not to you. its the same old same old with much a Calvinism. your automatically wrong . i have no more desire to be here . its nothing more than the flesh i am leaving next time make it plain your forum is Calvinist based

Give us a chance Ezra. We want to be everybody's favorite forum. It sure will be hard, won't it? Posting can be like liking chocolate or vanilla ice cream. What we do is eat Neapolitan then. The Forum will never stop being Pro Calvinism, it's like that old strawberry taking up space in the Neapolitan ice cream. Follow the rules, and we all should have a good time...

 

[ChristB4us]

Well, one of those I was thinking about is the Ethopian eunich later in Ac 8 who, when the gospel was explained to him, first believed and then was baptized, with no "baptism of the Holy Spirit" following.
He was regenerated by the Holy Spirit when he believed, but he did not receive the "baptism of the Holy Spirit."

Well, since faith comes by hearing the word of God and the Spirit comes by hearing the word of God, then the Ethiopian eunuch was saved before his water baptism since he had believed in Him for him wanting to be water baptized in His name.

However, in Acts others were baptized with the Holy Spirit some time after they believed, showing that baptism of the Holy Spirit is not regeneration, because regeneration is an operation of the Holy Spirit required for belief/faith and, therefore, comes before.

Right; water baptism does not do anything. Paul said so in deferring from it in 1 Corinthians 1:17-21 as God is pleased to save those that believe. When you read Acts 2:36-39, the call to repent to the Jews that had crucified Jesus Christ in unbelief, was to believe in Jesus Christ to receive the remission of sins because this same Peter in preaching the gospel to the Gentiles was plainly stated as believe in Him to receive the remission of sins & they got the Holy Ghost before coming forward to get water baptism in His name... even though they did it afterwards in Acts 10:43-48

Regeneration is separate from the Holy Spirit's baptism, which baptism is given as both a witness to the gospel, and as a special empowering, as in the apostles on Pentecost at the birth of the church.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is not regeneration by the Holy Spirit. "Baptism" is for witness and special empowerment, after one's regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

I do not believe that since regeneration takes place at the same time when we receive the Holy Spirit and thus faith in Jesus Christ as well.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[ChristB4us]

Yet you insist that one must use the KJV to be saved.

You must be thinking of someone else. I never posted that.

You can use any bible version to lead anyone to Christ as God is ministering, BUT in correcting others, I believe one has to rely on the meat of His words as kept in the KJV by those that loved Him & His words.

Anti-KJVers will say "the KJV is a good Bible, but" and refer to different reasons and yet they wind up saying not all Bibles are saying the same thing. And then they promote to learn the Greek & Hebrew, but the ones that do, are arguing over each other for proper translation and so that is out.

I had been using the NASB Ryrie Study Bible with the NIV until I got fed up with finding troubling passages and I was led to check with the KJV, and they have it right and so I started relying on the KJV for the meat of His words for discerning good & evil whereby modern bibles has changed the message enough to support false teachings. Even though you can find scripture in that modern Bible as keeping the truth in His words, and yet by that changed message in that modern Bible, doubt is sown. So I had enough of that. I am relying on the KJV & the Lord to help me understand His words and to apply His words rightly as meat in discerning good & evil in these latter days where faith is hard to find.

I'm anti KJVO as well because it adds to the Gospel of Christ in some that believe one must use it to be saved.

And that is your stance as well.

I never posted that. So you have to be thinking of someone else.

Are you from CARM? Maybe you are thinking of someone else from there?

All I can say is provide that post that I did if you recollected correctly as that being my stance but you are not going to find it here.

 

[ChristB4us]

And that is okay.

Thanks.

We are letting you and others know our beliefs. These beliefs I will defend.

Understandable, but I do wonder how you guys present the gospel? If each of you did your own presentation, will it read the same?

As far as the KJV is concerned I have no issue with it, it has been used by many to proclaim the gospel. But I do not believe it is anymore inspired than any other Christian bible.

The KJV is not a perfect Bible and the KJV translators certainly did not disparage the Bibles that has gone before the KJV.

Anyone can use any Bible as the Father lead others to Christ since God ministers in causing the increase.

KJVO comments removed as it is divisive.

 

[Josheb]

How are we saved?

Poll provided.

Feel free to provide a scripture or two for your choice(s) in the replies below.

None of the above.

We are saved BY grace and BY the work of Christ. The poll needs to have an option for "By grace," or "By grace through faith in Christ..."

 

[Josheb]

I voted the first choice!

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.... 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

that text does not say "saved by faith." What it does state is we are children of God by faith," NOT saved by faith. In order to argue that verse is evidence (or proof) of salvation BY faith you'd have to make the case of being saved and being children being identical and not the latter simply being a constituent element of the former. And you'd have to do that without running into conflict with all the scriptures about our adoption.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

That text does not state, "saved by faith." There are even bigger problem used Romans 3:10 because the "word of faith," is not itself faith AND the moment confession or any other action is asserted as causal that becomes a works-based salvation. Scripture repudiates the causal basis of works in salvation.




Remember: salvation is about the sinfully dead and enslaved sinner being brought from death to life; dead in sin to alive in Christ. Prior to having been brought to life in Christ EVERYTHING in and of the sinner is a product of sinfully dead and enslaved flesh - even his "faith."

Therefore, option 1 in the poll should and must read "By the faith in Christ of the dead and enslaved flesh..." The faith of the regenerate is the faith of the already-saved. That faith cannot be what is implied or otherwise asserted in option 1.

 

[ChristB4us]

No, it was you. Here you are softly implying I am lost, and, in addition, need the KJV which is used by them that "love him."

That is your opinion upon me citing some troubling passages in the Ryrie Study Bible & the NIV for why I was led by the Lord to check with the KJV and not quoting me as saying that I was lost.

I believe the KJV's origin or source was kept by those that loved Him & His words thus all Bibles before that one including the KJV as stemming from the area of Antioch where the disciples studied His words for a year per acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

The source documents from the Alexandrian area are circumspect because of poetic licensing and Gnosticism was known to exists. That is why they are not aligning with the source documents from Antioch.

Want proof that 1 John 5:7 of the Three Witnesses was originally scripture?

IS 1 JOHN 5:7 NOT IN ANY GREEK MANUSCRIPT BEFORE THE 1600S? IF IT IS TRUE, WHY IS IT IN THE KJV?

Halfway down the web page, the author David W. Daniels listed extrabiblical sources that testified to 1 John 5:7 being originally scripture.

So I applied His words as a warning from the Father that not everyone will love Him to keep His words for why I rely on the KJV for the meat of His words as I see by the grace of God and His help, the warning from the Father as a prophesy that came true.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

 

[ChristB4us]

None of the above.

We are saved BY grace and BY the work of Christ. The poll needs to have an option for "By grace," or "By grace through faith in Christ..."

Thank you for that correction.

You are correct since by grace from the Father, we had received faith & the Holy Spirit at the hearing of the gospel.

I doubt I can change the poll now. Maybe someone from the administration could.

@Carbon or @Alive Can you change the first choice of the poll with "By grace through faith in Jesus Christ"?

 

[Josheb]

@ChristB4us,

If there's agreement with post #120 then ask the mods to add that to the poll or start a new thread with the amended poll.

 

[Josheb]

Maybe someone from the administration could.

Ask em.

Or start over. Ask the admin to delete this thread and post a new thread with an amended poll. I'm confident we're all cool with that.








Gotta confess: I took some perverse delight in the "joining" options. Hillarious!

 

[ChristB4us]

@ChristB4us,

If there's agreement with post #120 then ask the mods to add that to the poll or start a new thread with the amended poll.

I tagged two Administrators to see if they can do that or not when editing post # 123

 

[Eleanor]

Well, since faith comes by hearing the word of God and the Spirit comes by hearing the word of God,

Where do we find the Spirit comes by hearing the word of God?

then the Ethiopian eunuch was saved before his water baptism since he had believed in Him for him wanting to be water baptized in His name.

Right; water baptism does not do anything. Paul said so in deferring from it in 1 Corinthians 1:17-21 as God is pleased to save those that believe. When you read Acts 2:36-39, the call to repent to the Jews that had crucified Jesus Christ in unbelief, was to believe in Jesus Christ to receive the remission of sins because this same Peter in preaching the gospel to the Gentiles was plainly stated as believe in Him to receive the remission of sins & they got the Holy Ghost before coming forward to get water baptism in His name... even though they did it afterwards in Acts 10:43-48

I do not believe that since regeneration takes place at the same time when we receive the Holy Spirit and thus faith in Jesus Christ as well.

Regeneration and special manifestation (baptism) of the Holy Spirit are not the same operation, they are separate operations, one invisible, the other visible.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghoste; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Water baptism is a sign of the new birth; i.e., renewing of the Holy Spirit, not the new birth/renewing itself, which is only by sovereign act of the Holy Spirit, as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:7-8).

 

[civic]

Where do we find the Spirit comes by hearing the word of God?

Regeneration and special manifestation (baptism) of the Holy Spirit are not the same operation, they are separate operations, one invisible, the other visible.

Water baptism is a sign of the new birth; i.e., renewing of the Holy Spirit, not the new birth/renewing itself, which is only by sovereign act of the Holy Spirit, as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:7-8).

1 Peter 1
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,

“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.”[c]
And this is the word that was preached to you.

James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation