Free Will

[David1701]

The Passover is not the type/model of Jesus' atonement.

The OT sacrificial system is that type/model.

All the OT sacrifices are types of Christ, in one way or another; and the Passover is the epitome of that!

 

[Eleanor]

All the OT sacrifices are types of Christ, in one way or another; and the Passover is the epitome of that!

Yes, the sacrificial system was the pattern for Jesus' sacrifice.

However, the Passover was not a sacrifice of atonement for sin.
It was a type of the blood applied (by faith) saving from (eternal) death.

 

[Carbon]

God said when I see the Blood I will passover you. So when did God see the Blood of Christ shed for His People ?

Ephesians 2,
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,

When we, the elect were born, we were born in original sin, which I know you agree with. We were not born holy and good. And because of our nature, we are born depraved. So by nature, we were under wrath. Name one person besides Christ who is not worthy of wrath.

Because of what Christ has done, God places us in Christ and we are covered with his blood. But this does not happen at the physical birth, or in eternity past, this happens at the appointed time. There is no way God will forget one of His. He says He is waiting patiently for the last elect to be born. If eternal redemption as you believe were true, why would he be patiently waiting to regenerate His last elect? Doesn't this prove there is an appointed time?

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 2 Peter 3:9.

This particular verse (2 Peter 3:9) weighs heavy with an appointed time.

 

[Alive]

Ephesians 2,
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,

When we, the elect were born, we were born in original sin, which I know you agree with. We were not born holy and good. And because of our nature, we are born depraved. So by nature, we were under wrath. Name one person besides Christ who is not worthy of wrath.

Because of what Christ has done, God places us in Christ and we are covered with his blood. But this does not happen at the physical birth, or in eternity past, this happens at the appointed time. There is no way God will forget one of His. He says He is waiting patiently for the last elect to be born. If eternal redemption as you believe were true, why would he be patiently waiting to regenerate His last elect? Doesn't this prove there is an appointed time?

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 2 Peter 3:9.

This particular verse (2 Peter 3:9) weighs heavy with an appointed time.

I have long suspected this is just what the 153 fishes is all about….a finite number and then, the Day of the Lord.

 

[brightfame52]

Ro 5:9-10:
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!
For if, while we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!

How do your responses relate to Ro 5:9-10?

Those verses are true. Nothing there changes what is stated in Rom 5:10

 

[Carbon]

I have long suspected this is just what the 153 fishes is all about….a finite number and then, the Day of the Lord.

I'm not sure what you mean, sorry.

 

[brightfame52]

That would be on the cross.

Okay so people who Christ shed His Blood for are reconciled, justified before God by His Blood prior to their believing and while enemies.

 

[Alive]

I'm not sure what you mean, sorry.

The number of fishes hauled in was not arbitrary. I think it relates to the elect. If you believe in election, then by extension, there is a certain and finite number destined to have eternal Life in Christ.

 

[David1701]

Yes, the sacrificial system was the pattern for Jesus' sacrifice.

However, the Passover was not a sacrifice of atonement for sin.
It was a type of the blood applied (by faith) saving from (eternal) death.

A lamb (the Lamb of God - the Lord Jesus Christ), slain and having it's blood shed, then eaten with bitter herbs (signifying the bitterness of Christ's death on the cross) and unleavened bread (signifying the sinlessness of Christ, who is the bread who came down from heaven), then the lamb's blood painted on the doorposts (Jesus is The Door), so that those inside (i.e. in Christ) were protected from death for sin. It doesn't get much more of a type of the atonement than this!

P.S. Jesus died during Passover.

 

[Alive]

A lamb (the Lamb of God - the Lord Jesus Christ), slain and having it's blood shed, then eaten with bitter herbs (signifying the bitterness of Christ's death on the cross) and unleavened bread (signifying the sinlessness of Christ, who is the bread who came down from heaven), then the lamb's blood painted on the doorposts, so that those inside (i.e. in Christ) were protected from death for sin. It doesn't get much more of a type of the atonement than this!

I absolutely love this…we are obviously reading the same bible.
lol

 

[Eleanor]

A lamb (the Lamb of God - the Lord Jesus Christ), slain and having it's blood shed, then eaten with bitter herbs (signifying the bitterness of Christ's death on the cross) and unleavened bread (signifying the sinlessness of Christ, who is the bread who came down from heaven), then the lamb's blood painted on the doorposts (Jesus is The Door), so that those inside (i.e. in Christ) were protected from death for sin. It doesn't get much more of a type of the atonement than this!

Blood on the doorposts was to protect the first born from the angel of death, it was not for sin as in the sacrificial system.

 

[David1701]

I absolutely love this…we are obviously reading the same bible.
lol

And I've edited it to add a couple of little bits.

 

[David1701]

Blood on the doorposts was to protect the first born from the angel of death, it was not for sin.

What? You don't think that the Egyptian firstborn were killed because of sin? Everyone who is not protected by the blood of Christ will die. Egypt is a type of the world and Israel God's people. God's people were safe behind the blood and all the Egyptian firstborn died.

 

[Alive]

Blood on the doorposts was to protect the first born from the angel of death, it was not for sin as in the sacrificial system.

Yup….well said.

 

[Alive]

What? You don't think that the Egyptian firstborn were killed because of sin?

Of course death is always associated with sin, but I agree the specific lesson learned is related to a rescue from final death and destruction.

 

[Eleanor]

What? You don't think that the Egyptian firstborn were killed because of sin? Everyone who is not protected by the blood of Christ will die. Egypt is a type of the world and Israel God's people. God's people were safe behind the blood and all the Egyptian firstborn died.

If sin were the problem, all would have been killed.
It was the tenth plague. Killing Pharaoh' first born did the trick, not to mention all the other firstborn.

 

[David1701]

If sin were the problem, all would have been killed.
It was the tenth plague. Killing Pharaoh' first born did the trick, not to mention all the other firstborn.

You're rationalising. Of course sin was the problem (it always is); and, God hadn't finished yet, there was still Pharaoh and his entire army to kill.

 

[Alive]

God was pointing us to Christ as the solution to the Fall. Its much like layers of an onion or one of those russian eggs within eggs. Line upon line. We need the Paraclete to shed light on the words and make it real to us.
The natural man has no clue. I just had a long conversation about such things with my eldest son…pray for him.

 

[Eleanor]

You're rationalising. Of course sin was the problem (it always is); and, God hadn't finished yet, there was still Pharaoh and his entire army to kill.

Which left women and children alive.
Nor were all in the army.

The Israelites weren't sinners?

I'm not understanding your point.

 

[David1701]

Which left women and children alive.
Nor were all in the army.

The Israelites weren't sinners?

I'm not understanding your point.

There is no one sacrifice, in the OT, that symbolises the whole of the cross; but, the Passover clearly points to some of the main aspects of it.