Can the external call of the gospel by itself produce faith in the heart of the natural man?

[DialecticSkeptic]

Yeah I do, Jude 1:1 makes it clear

—a text which you have interpreted incorrectly.

 

[brightfame52]

—a text which you have interpreted incorrectly.

Thats your opinion, everyone has one

 

[Eleanor]

Who said that? [You seem to have misunderstood what I said.]

You did.

brightfame52 said:
There is a sanctified and preserved people whom God will call in time and that call will produce Faith in that called person Jude 1:1

Sanctified = set apart, from sin.

No one is sanctified before the new birth.

 

[brightfame52]

You did.

brightfame52 said:
There is a sanctified and preserved people whom God will call in time and that call will produce Faith in that called person Jude 1:1

Sanctified = set apart, from sin.

No one is sanctified before the new birth.

I didnt say they were set apart from sin.

 

[Eleanor]

I didnt say they were set apart from sin.

That is the meaning of sanctify - to set apart from sin.

 

[Hazelelponi]

That is the meaning of sanctify - to set apart from sin.

To sanctify is to set apart for holy use, like gold vessels in the temple for God’s glory, not common clay (2 Tim. 2:20-21).

Through union with Christ, believers are positionally sanctified—declared holy by His imputed righteousness (1 Cor. 1:30; Heb. 10:10), which is a gift of grace.

We’re also called to progressively grow in practical holiness (1 Pet. 1:15-16), which is enabled by the Spirit (Phil. 2:12-13) and is likewise, still positional.

Sanctification, positional and progressive, flows from Christ’s work, setting us apart for God’s purposes (Rom. 6:22). While it involves separation from sin, God can use anyone, like the thief on the cross, whose holiness is Christ’s alone until our ultimate glorification.

I’d nuance your definition slightly: sanctification isn’t primarily about sinlessness but being usable for God’s will and glory. He both begins and completes this work (Phil. 1:6).

Yeah I do, Jude 1:1 makes it clear

Jude 1:1 clearly teaches that believers are simultaneously called, beloved in God, and kept for Christ—distinct yet inseparable aspects of our standing, not a progression. The moment we are justified by faith, we are positionally in Christ, His righteousness imputed to us (Rom. 4:24; 2 Cor. 5:21).

God calls us out of the world into Christ (John 15:19), and while progressive sanctification may lead to greater tasks (Luke 16:10—“Whoever is faithful in little is faithful in much”), the apostles primarily speak of our calling as our initial salvation in Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

That is the meaning of sanctify - to set apart from sin.

You entitled to your opinion. I never heard of that b4 that the sanctified are set apart from sin. Does that mean they dont sin anymore, they are sinless ? Were all the sanctified in Corinth set apart from all sin 1 Cor 1:1

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

 

[brightfame52]

@Hazelelponi

Jude 1:1 clearly teaches that believers are simultaneously called, beloved in God, and kept for Christ—distinct yet inseparable aspects of our standing, not a progression. The moment we are justified by faith, we are positionally in Christ, His righteousness imputed to us (Rom. 4:24; 2 Cor. 5:21).

I believe the sanctification by the Father in Jude 1:1 has to do with their election in Christ b4 the foundation of the world. Thats why it says sanctified by the Father. And all such are preserved in Jesus Christ, then in time, they are called by the Gospel to Faith

 

[His clay]

Avoid?

Is God capable of explaining and helping a natural man the truth about the gospel. So that man is able to make a decision?

Ot is God not capable?

It’s the ONLY valid question one should ask. Because it is the only one that answers the question you asked with reason

False framing. The real question is whether or not God has revealed Himself to be as your questions imply? Again, lest my point be missed, Scripture, not our questions, is the guide in understanding who God is and how God acts. I see a lot of speculation in your questions, but I don't see scripture.

 

[His clay]

Faith means to trust to have assurance.

When I came to faith in Christ I trusted his word and his promise. And I was assured he would keep his promise.

I think people make things to difficult

I believe in the simplicity that is in christ jesus

Again, John 3 and the Bronze serpent is a great example..

Now I do believe a person or persons who are born again can be gifted faith. Which is a gift of the HS. Like all the other gifts. I also know people who have this gift. They have a special way to trust things that seem greater than regular faith

Depends on context

Do I trust in history or Do I trust in God?

The jews trusted in the law. And history as they knew (and wrote it) so they failed to trust Christ. Because christ did not fit their view of the messiah,they did not think they needed saved because of their history

Then why did those who believed pick up stones to stone Jesus at the end of Jn8? The danger of simplicity is reductionism.