Did Christ actually suffer eternal torment on our behalf?

[Keiw1]

Jesus is called the firstborn, not the first-created. The word "firstborn" (Greek word "prototokos") signifies priority. In the culture of the Ancient Near East, the firstborn was not necessarily the oldest child. firstborn referred not to birth order but to rank. The firstborn possessed the inheritance and leadership.......But then again you knew that....riight?

Firstborn of all CREATION.

 

[Keiw1]

What is misleading about using "God" for "YHWH," etc.?

The best example is Joel 2:21-22--Those who call on the name of YHWH(Jehovah) will be saved.--Quoted at Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13--But since the altered translations have LORD at Joel 2:21, all think that the name at Acts and Romans is Jesus because Lord is in both spots misquoted because of the removal of Gods name to mislead., but it is not Jesus name spoken of it is YHWH(Jehovah) he is THE ONLY TRUE GOD.

 

[Keiw1]

That is still just a statement without giving any evidence that I asked for.

You can easily look up the tetragramoton-It doesnt even take a single minute. How much value does life everlasting have to you? A minutes worth of your time?

 

[Eleanor]

 

[Eleanor]

The best example is Joel 2:21-22--Those who call on the name of YHWH(Jehovah) will be saved.--Quoted at Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13--But since the altered translations have LORD at Joel 2:21, all think that the name at Acts and Romans is Jesus because Lord is in both spots misquoted because of the removal of Gods name to mislead., but it is not Jesus name spoken of it is YHWH(Jehovah) he is THE ONLY TRUE GOD.

LORD stands for YHWH.
Lord stands for Jesus.

In Ro 10:14-17, Paul is saying that that those who call on Christ (v.17) will be saved.
And his Biblical proof of that is Joel 2:32, "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD (YHWH) will be saved."
Paul is identifying Jesus as the YHWH of Joel's prophecy who is to be called on to be saved.

There is no translational error in the above or in the Scriptures below.


Keeping in mind that to reject NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church is to reject Christ's teaching (Lk 10:16).

That is what one is doing in rejecting the following teachings of the apostles Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, who identify

Jesus as the YHWH of the OT in:

Mt 3:3, Lk 1:67-68, 76 (Isa 40:3) - Jesus is the YHWH of whom the voice calling in the wilderness (John the Baptist) prepared the way.

Ro 10:9, 13 (Joel 2:32) - Paul teaches Jesus is the YHWH of Joel's prophecy that "everyone who calls on the name of YHWH will be saved."

Heb 1:6 (Dt 32:43) - Heb quotes Moses' song referring to YHWH and says it applies to Jesus.

Rev 1:12-18 (Isa 44:6, 48:12) - the man in the vision is Jesus (1:18, 2:8) who identifies himself as the First and the Last which is YHWH identification of himself.

Also:

Rev 21:6, 22:12-13 (Rev 1:8) - the man in the vision (Jesus) identifies himself as the Alpha and Omega of Rev 1:8, which is YHWH.

Rev 21:5-7 (Rev 20:11-13) -Jesus, the one on the throne (Rev 20:11-13 with Jn 5:22, 27, 9:39), is God (Rev 21:7).

The Elohim and YHWH who created all things (Ge 1:1, Is 44:24, Jer 10:16) is Jesus (Jn 1:3, Col 1:16-17, Heb 1:2b, 10).

Apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16) is that Jesus is God (as is the Holy Spirit).

 

[makesends]

LORD stands for YHWH.
Lord stands for Jesus.

In Ro 10:14-17, Paul is saying that that those who call on Christ (v.17) will be saved.
And his Biblical proof of that is Joel 2:32, "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD (YHWH) will be saved."
Paul is identifying Jesus as the YHWH of Joel's prophecy who is to be called on to be saved.

There is no translational error in the above or in the Scriptures below.


Keeping in mind that to reject NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church is to reject Christ's teaching (Lk 10:16).

That is what one is doing in rejecting the following teachings of the apostles Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, who identify

Jesus as the YHWH of the OT in:

Mt 3:3, Lk 1:67-68, 76 (Isa 40:3) - Jesus is the YHWH of whom the voice calling in the wilderness (John the Baptist) prepared the way.

Ro 10:9, 13 (Joel 2:32) - Paul teaches Jesus is the YHWH of Joel's prophecy that "everyone who calls on the name of YHWH will be saved."

Heb 1:6 (Dt 32:43) - Heb quotes Moses' song referring to YHWH and says it applies to Jesus.

Rev 1:12-18 (Isa 44:6, 48:12) - the man in the vision is Jesus (1:18, 2:8) who identifies himself as the First and the Last which is YHWH identification of himself.

Also:

Rev 21:6, 22:12-13 (Rev 1:8) - the man in the vision (Jesus) identifies himself as the Alpha and Omega of Rev 1:8, which is YHWH.

Rev 21:5-7 (Rev 20:11-13) -Jesus, the one on the throne (Rev 20:11-13 with Jn 5:22, 27, 9:39), is God (Rev 21:7).

The Elohim and YHWH who created all things (Ge 1:1, Is 44:24, Jer 10:16) is Jesus (Jn 1:3, Col 1:16-17, Heb 1:2b, 10).

Apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16) is that Jesus is God (as is the Holy Spirit).

You might have to repeat this a few times, before he looks up any of those. I have long since given up reasoning with him. He is, after all, wiser than any of us here, including the one replete with knowledge from on high. THIS guy knows where the BIBLE is wrong!

 

[Keiw1]

LORD stands for YHWH.
Lord stands for Jesus.

In Ro 10:14-17, Paul is saying that that those who call on Christ (v.17) will be saved.
And his Biblical proof of that is Joel 2:32, "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD (YHWH) will be saved."
Paul is identifying Jesus as the YHWH of Joel's prophecy who is to be called on to be saved.

There is no translational error in the above or in the Scriptures below.


Keeping in mind that to reject NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church is to reject Christ's teaching (Lk 10:16).

That is what one is doing in rejecting the following teachings of the apostles Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, who identify

Jesus as the YHWH of the OT in:

Mt 3:3, Lk 1:67-68, 76 (Isa 40:3) - Jesus is the YHWH of whom the voice calling in the wilderness (John the Baptist) prepared the way.

Ro 10:9, 13 (Joel 2:32) - Paul teaches Jesus is the YHWH of Joel's prophecy that "everyone who calls on the name of YHWH will be saved."

Heb 1:6 (Dt 32:43) - Heb quotes Moses' song referring to YHWH and says it applies to Jesus.

Rev 1:12-18 (Isa 44:6, 48:12) - the man in the vision is Jesus (1:18, 2:8) who identifies himself as the First and the Last which is YHWH identification of himself.

Also:

Rev 21:6, 22:12-13 (Rev 1:8) - the man in the vision (Jesus) identifies himself as the Alpha and Omega of Rev 1:8, which is YHWH.

Rev 21:5-7 (Rev 20:11-13) -Jesus, the one on the throne (Rev 20:11-13 with Jn 5:22, 27, 9:39), is God (Rev 21:7).

The Elohim and YHWH who created all things (Ge 1:1, Is 44:24, Jer 10:16) is Jesus (Jn 1:3, Col 1:16-17, Heb 1:2b, 10).

Apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16) is that Jesus is God (as is the Holy Spirit).

No Paul is quoting Joel--YHWH said to my Lord( Jesus) proves he is not YHWH. But your altered translations has the LORD said to my Lord.
YHWH( Jehovah) is the Father= Jesus' God-John 20:17, just like he is all true followers God.

 

[CrowCross]

No Paul is quoting Joel--YHWH said to my Lord( Jesus) proves he is not YHWH. But your altered translations has the LORD said to my Lord.
YHWH( Jehovah) is the Father= Jesus' God-John 20:17, just like he is all true followers God.

If you want to talk about people saying stufff....Tommy said to Jesus....My Lord and my God.

If you doubt me you can look it up. Can't wait to hear your spin.

 

[Eleanor]

No Paul is quoting Joel--YHWH said to my Lord( Jesus) proves he is not YHWH. But your altered translations has the LORD said to my Lord.

Mine is not an altered translation, yours is Ps 110:1, and not Joel 2:32.
Paul is using Joel 2:32, not Ps 110:1, to demonstrate that Jesus is YHWH.
"Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved." (Joel 2:32)

In Ro 10:9 Paul is saying that Jesus is the YHWH of Joel's prophecy who is to be called on to be saved.(Ro 10:13).
That is Paul's apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16); i.e., Jesus is YHWH.

YHWH( Jehovah) is the Father= Jesus' God-John 20:17, just like he is all true followers God.

Ro 10:9, 13 is not the only NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16) that Jesus is YHWH.
There is also:

Mt 3:3, Lk 1:67-68, 76 (Isa 40:3) - Jesus is the YHWH of whom the voice calling in the wilderness (John the Baptist) prepared the way.

Heb 1:6 (Dt 32:43) - Heb quotes Moses' song referring to YHWH and says it applies to Jesus.

Rev 1:12-18 (Isa 44:6, 48:12) - the man in the vision is Jesus (1:18, 2:8) who identifies himself as the First and the Last which is YHWH identification of himself.

Rev 21:6, 22:12-13 (Rev 1:8) - the man in the vision (Jesus) identifies himself as the Alpha and Omega of Rev 1:8, which is YHWH.

Rev 21:5-7 (Rev 20:11-13) -Jesus, the one on the throne (Rev 20:11-13 with Jn 5:22, 27, 9:39), is God (Rev 21:7).

The Elohim and YHWH who created all things (Ge 1:1, Is 44:24, Jer 10:16) is Jesus (Jn 1:3, Col 1:16-17, Heb 1:2b, 10).

 

[Keiw1]

If you want to talk about people saying stufff....Tommy said to Jesus....My Lord and my God.

If you doubt me you can look it up. Can't wait to hear your spin.

Nice delusion.

 

[Keiw1]

Mine is not an altered translation, yours is Ps 110:1, and not Joel 2:32.
Paul is using Joel 2:32, not Ps 110:1, to demonstrate that Jesus is YHWH.
"Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved." (Joel 2:32)

In Ro 10:9 Paul is saying that Jesus is the YHWH of Joel's prophecy who is to be called on to be saved.(Ro 10:13).
That is Paul's apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16); i.e., Jesus is YHWH.

Ro 10:9, 13 is not the only NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16) that Jesus is YHWH.
There is also:

Mt 3:3, Lk 1:67-68, 76 (Isa 40:3) - Jesus is the YHWH of whom the voice calling in the wilderness (John the Baptist) prepared the way.

Heb 1:6 (Dt 32:43) - Heb quotes Moses' song referring to YHWH and says it applies to Jesus.

Rev 1:12-18 (Isa 44:6, 48:12) - the man in the vision is Jesus (1:18, 2:8) who identifies himself as the First and the Last which is YHWH identification of himself.

Rev 21:6, 22:12-13 (Rev 1:8) - the man in the vision (Jesus) identifies himself as the Alpha and Omega of Rev 1:8, which is YHWH.

Rev 21:5-7 (Rev 20:11-13) -Jesus, the one on the throne (Rev 20:11-13 with Jn 5:22, 27, 9:39), is God (Rev 21:7).

The Elohim and YHWH who created all things (Ge 1:1, Is 44:24, Jer 10:16) is Jesus (Jn 1:3, Col 1:16-17, Heb 1:2b, 10).

You twist what Paul said, but no matter what you can't get by FACTS. Every Israelite who ever served the true God, including Paul served a single being God=YHWH(Jehovah) as does Jesus-John 20:17

 

[Eleanor]

You twist what Paul said, but no matter what you can't get by FACTS. Every Israelite who ever served the true God, including Paul served a single being God=YHWH(Jehovah) as does Jesus-John 20:17

Falls a little short of Biblical demonstration of my error.

 

[Keiw1]

Falls a little short of Biblical demonstration of my error.

Its 100% undeniable fact about the God Israel served and taught= the Abrahamic God= a single being God=YHWH(Jehovah)

 

[Eleanor]

Its 100% undeniable fact about the God Israel served and taught= the Abrahamic God= a single being God=YHWH(Jehovah)

Addressed in mine above.

 

[CrowCross]

Nice delusion.

Are you saying the bible is a delusion?

 

[Keiw1]

Are you saying the bible is a delusion?

twisting it to delusion by 99% of all religions claiming to be christian. If you follow Jesus-then believe him-John 20:17, Rev 3:12

 

[CrowCross]

twisting it to delusion by 99% of all religions claiming to be christian. If you follow Jesus-then believe him-John 20:17, Rev 3:12

Yikes, 1% of people claiming to be christians...are saved. Of course you're 1 of them.

 

[Keiw1]

Yikes, 1% of people claiming to be christians...are saved. Of course you're 1 of them.

Jesus compared these last days to Noahs day( Luke 17:26)=99.9% mislead in Noahs day. 99% minimum today. Thats because 99% of all religion on earth is false. 99% of all religion claiming to be christian is false-they use altered translations that mislead them. Jesus said-FEW will find the road that leads off into life( be saved)

 

[CrowCross]

Jesus compared these last days to Noahs day( Luke 17:26)=99.9% mislead in Noahs day. 99% minimum today. Thats because 99% of all religion on earth is false. 99% of all religion claiming to be christian is false-they use altered translations that mislead them. Jesus said-FEW will find the road that leads off into life( be saved)

And as I have said...YOU....are part of that 1%. Good for you.

 

[Eleanor]

You twist what Paul said, but no matter what you can't get by FACTS. Every Israelite who ever served the true God, including Paul served a single being God=YHWH(Jehovah) as does Jesus-John 20:17

Yes, the divine Trinity is a single being, in three distinct divine persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit).

Just as the human Jesus is a single being with two separate natures (human, divine).

And now the second person, God the Son, of the single being which is the divine Trinity, has taken on a human body/nature.