Did Christ actually suffer eternal torment on our behalf?

[3 Resurrections]

Jesus compared these last days to Noahs day( Luke 17:26)=99.9% mislead in Noahs day. 99% minimum today. Thats because 99% of all religion on earth is false. 99% of all religion claiming to be christian is false-they use altered translations that mislead them. Jesus said-FEW will find the road that leads off into life( be saved)

No, Jesus compared the last days of the first-century generation to Noah's days. Only a remnant of the Jews was believing in Him as the Messiah. The "narrow gate" limitation applied only to the first-century Jewish population. Christ "came to His own, and His own received Him not" (John 1:11). That first-century generation of Jews and their own children suffered greatly for that rejection, and their betrayal and murder of their own prophesied Messiah. This resulted in the power of that formerly "holy people" being "shattered", as Daniel 12:7 had predicted.

Even Moses understood what was going to happen to Israel in their "latter end". That was the purpose of Moses teaching the nation of Israel that "song of Moses" found in Deuteronomy 32, even before Israel entered the land of Canaan. It was a song of judgment and vengeance on themselves if they departed from serving the Lord their God. The Lord was going to judge His people, rendering judgment to His enemies, and rewarding those that hated Him by slaying them with arrows, the sword, and captivity.

You can't extrapolate from this restricted number of the "remnant" of Jews being elected in that first-century generation to an all-inclusive restricted number of 1% of all humanity who will ultimately be saved. God isn't that stingy with His grace. He planned to bring "many sons unto glory" - not a few.

 

[Keiw1]

And as I have said...YOU....are part of that 1%. Good for you.

I pray i am, i know Jesus is with the teachers i listen to.

 

[Keiw1]

Yes, the divine Trinity is a single being, in three distinct divine persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit).

Just as the human Jesus is a single being with two separate natures (human, divine).

And now the second person, God the Son, of the single being which is the divine Trinity, has taken on a human body/nature.

it cant be a single being if its 3 persons.

 

[Keiw1]

No, Jesus compared the last days of the first-century generation to Noah's days. Only a remnant of the Jews was believing in Him as the Messiah. The "narrow gate" limitation applied only to the first-century Jewish population. Christ "came to His own, and His own received Him not" (John 1:11). That first-century generation of Jews and their own children suffered greatly for that rejection, and their betrayal and murder of their own prophesied Messiah. This resulted in the power of that formerly "holy people" being "shattered", as Daniel 12:7 had predicted.

Even Moses understood what was going to happen to Israel in their "latter end". That was the purpose of Moses teaching the nation of Israel that "song of Moses" found in Deuteronomy 32, even before Israel entered the land of Canaan. It was a song of judgment and vengeance on themselves if they departed from serving the Lord their God. The Lord was going to judge His people, rendering judgment to His enemies, and rewarding those that hated Him by slaying them with arrows, the sword, and captivity.

You can't extrapolate from this restricted number of the "remnant" of Jews being elected in that first-century generation to an all-inclusive restricted number of 1% of all humanity who will ultimately be saved. God isn't that stingy with His grace. He planned to bring "many sons unto glory" - not a few.

2 Timothy 3 is today-Jesus did say the words about Noah's day to these today. We are at the end of these last days.

 

[CrowCross]

I pray i am, i know Jesus is with the teachers i listen to.

And you know He's not with my teachers.....Darn.

 

[Eleanor]

it cant be a single being if its 3 persons.

You don't get to make the rules for the supernatural divine order.
You get to accept the rules as presented in NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16).

And they present one God, a single being, in three distinct divine persons.

 

[3 Resurrections]

We are at the end of these last days.

No, we aren't. The NT writings all describe those first-century times as "the last days". James 5:1 says this. 1 Peter 4:7 repeated that "the end of all things is at hand". 1 John 2:18 wrote that the believers then were in "the last HOUR". Hebrews 1:2 wrote that God through the Son had spoken unto the believers "in these last days". Peter in Acts 2:17 interpreted Joel's prophecy about "the last days" as that time of Pentecost when the Spirit was being poured out on all flesh. Just how many texts do you need to figure out that the NT meant what it said?

 

[Eleanor]

No, we aren't. The NT writings all describe those first-century times as "the last days". James 5:1 says this. 1 Peter 4:7 repeated that "the end of all things is at hand". 1 John 2:18 wrote that the believers then were in "the last HOUR". Hebrews 1:2 wrote that God through the Son had spoken unto the believers "in these last days". Peter in Acts 2:17 interpreted Joel's prophecy about "the last days" as that time of Pentecost when the Spirit was being poured out on all flesh. Just how many texts do you need to figure out t “at the last day” Jn 6:39-40,44,54

Jesus also describes the resurrection as in the last day (Jn 6:39-40, 44, 54).

So if the first century is the last days, we are still in the last days until that resurrection at the end of time.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Jesus also describes the resurrection as in the last day (Jn 6:39-40, 44, 54).

So if the first century is the last days, we are still in the last days until that resurrection at the end of time.

That resurrection Jesus described in John He called "the hour that is coming". Paul later described that resurrection to Felix as the resurrection of the dead which was "about to be" in his own days (Acts 24:15). It was the resurrection Christ would perform at His second coming - the event which He said would take place before some of those He spoke to in those days had died (Matthew 16:27-28).

You and I are waiting for the third resurrection event at Christ's next return in the distant future.

And by the way, there is no "end of time" described in scripture; only the "time of the end", which is something altogether different.

 

[Eleanor]

That resurrection Jesus described in John He called "the hour that is coming".

Which is the resurrection in the last day (Jn 6:39-40, 44, 54).

Paul later described that resurrection to Felix as the resurrection of the dead which was "about to be" in his own days (Acts 24:15).

Keeping in mind that the NT writers believed that the second coming, resurrection, rapture and final judgment would be in their lifetimes.
However, there being no Lord Jesus coming from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels, and there being no final judgment in their lifetimes, there was also no resurrection and rapture in their lifetime, which in NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16) are all part of the second coming.

It was the resurrection Christ would perform at His second coming - the event which He said would take place before some of those He spoke to in those days had died (Matthew 16:27-28).

Unless "coming in his Father's glory" was referring to his transfiguration (Mt 7:1) which demonstrated that Jesus would return in his Father's glory for the resurrection.

You and I are waiting for the third resurrection event at Christ's next return in the distant future.

In the NT, there are only two resurrections, one (Rev 20:5-6) in a prophetic riddle not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8), and the other (Mt 25:31-32) in apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16), of the sheep and the goats (all mankind).
I interpret the first resurrection of the riddle in Rev 20:5-6 as the new birth (Jn 3:3-8) from spiritual death to eternal life.
There is no third resurrection in apostolic teaching authoritative to the church.

And by the way, there is no "end of time" described in scripture; only the "time of the end", which is something altogether different.

Distinction without a difference, unless you think there is no "end of time" because eternity and time are the same phenomena.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Which is the resurrection in the last day (Jn 6:39-40, 44, 54).

Yes, that was the second coming - in AD 70 when those verses were fulfilled.

Keeping in mind that the NT writers believed that the second coming, resurrection, rapture and final judgment would be in their lifetimes.
However, there being no Lord Jesus coming from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels, and there being no final judgment in their lifetimes, there was also no resurrection and rapture in their lifetime, which in NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16) are all part of the second coming.

Yes, this was taught by the NT writers who believed (and rightly so) that the second coming, resurrection, rapture and judgment of the dead (not the final one) would be in their lifetimes. And it did happen then, just as Jesus foretold to them. That "blazing fire" of God taking vengeance on His enemies did descend on Jerusalem, which was quite literally burned up. Angels gathered all the resurrected elect saints to the Mount of Olives location and Christ returned with them to heaven in AD 70. The rapture also gathered all those who had already been made "alive" by a resurrection process (like Lazarus and the Matthew 27:52-53 saints). These had "remained" on earth until then, but joined the rest of those newly-resurrected ones in meeting Christ together in the air and being taken to heaven at that point.

Unless "coming in his Father's glory" was referring to his transfiguration (Mt 7:1) which demonstrated that Jesus would return in his Father's glory for the resurrection.

That's not even possible. Jesus did not "come in His Father's glory" at the Mount of Transfiguration in Matthew 17:1 because He had never left yet. No resurrection was pictured on that Mount of Transfiguration, and no angels accompanied Him, and He gave out no rewards then according to every man's works, as was described in Matthew 16:27-28. The Mount of Transfiguration was for Elijah, Moses, and Christ to discuss His approaching crucifixion death at Jerusalem.

I interpret the first resurrection of the riddle in Rev 20:5-6 as the new birth (Jn 3:3-8) from spiritual death to eternal life.

This is flawed. The "First resurrection" was timed to take place simultaneously with the ending of the Rev. 20 millennium at a particular point on the calendar - not multiplied millions of times when anyone is brought to life in Christ by the new birth. 1 Corinthians 15:23 described the ranked order of resurrections in chronological time, with "Christ the First-fruits" rising from the dead, and then followed afterward in time by the next, 2nd resurrection event of "those who are Christ's at His coming".

There is no third resurrection in apostolic teaching authoritative to the church.

The institution of the "church" today is not our authority. Christ was made "the head over all things to the church" and HE ONLY is the ultimate authority. Christ taught His disciples about His first-century bodily return that would occur before that generation had all died. The NT writers and Apostles all believed this and taught it as well. Time continued to flow after Christ's second coming in AD 70, often with periods of tribulation for the saints, but none of which ever duplicated exactly what happened in the Great Tribulation period back in AD 66-70.

We are currently in the "year-to-year" (Zech 14:16) ages that followed Christ's second coming in Zechariah 14:4-5. All of us are destined to stand before the judgment seat of Christ to receive the things which are done in our body, whether they be good or bad. Scripture never tells us that this is one simultaneous event for all mankind at the same time. There is more than one Great White Throne judgment that God scheduled for mankind. You will labor in vain to find a scripture verse which says there is ONE and ONLY ONE return of Christ and ONE and ONLY ONE resurrection for the saints.

 

[Keiw1]

And you know He's not with my teachers.....Darn.

Yes i do know that. God never used more than a single religion-See-1Cor 1:10-Unity of thought( all of Gods 1 truth) no division.

 

[Keiw1]

You don't get to make the rules for the supernatural divine order.
You get to accept the rules as presented in NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16).

And they present one God, a single being, in three distinct divine persons.

I believe Jesus-John 20:17, Rev 3:12--all his followers do.

 

[Keiw1]

No, we aren't. The NT writings all describe those first-century times as "the last days". James 5:1 says this. 1 Peter 4:7 repeated that "the end of all things is at hand". 1 John 2:18 wrote that the believers then were in "the last HOUR". Hebrews 1:2 wrote that God through the Son had spoken unto the believers "in these last days". Peter in Acts 2:17 interpreted Joel's prophecy about "the last days" as that time of Pentecost when the Spirit was being poured out on all flesh. Just how many texts do you need to figure out that the NT meant what it said?

You are mistaken-- Is death no more? No--that is coming. Did Armageddon come to the earth= NO, it is coming.
Revelation is about these last days now.

 

[CrowCross]

Yes i do know that. God never used more than a single religion-See-1Cor 1:10-Unity of thought( all of Gods 1 truth) no division.

Then why do you insist only your 1% of people have gotten right? Are you of that single "religion" the only correct presenter of the gospel?

 

[turbomaniac]

Well I used not to understand how Jesus saved us by His martyric death and His resurrection. But it is quite simple. The Jews expected a Messiah King something like David (they still awaiting for a cosmic King), even though most Prophets said that the Messiah will be humiliated. But in order to be accepted from the non Jew people as Messiah Jesus had to be rejected by the Jews. Jesus also had to die and resurect so that we will be convinced for our own resurection in his 2nd Presence. So by His death we will live with him for eternal life! (Or eternal damnation)

And the amazing thing is that the God Word knew that He will die for humans so He created humans as the image of Him becoming human! How amazing is that!

 

[Keiw1]

Then why do you insist only your 1% of people have gotten right? Are you of that single "religion" the only correct presenter of the gospel?

Yes my teachers are these-Matt 24:45-- Those religions cant get by the fact the Abrahamic God served by Israel is a single being God, not 3 pieces that make him up. Its 100% fact of life-no trinity god was served by any true follower, then at the council of Constantinople in 381 ce, they added the holy spirit as part of a godhead. These= 2 Thess 2:3 made God into a trinity. By satans will to mislead. The protestants did not fix it.

 

[Keiw1]

No, we aren't. The NT writings all describe those first-century times as "the last days". James 5:1 says this. 1 Peter 4:7 repeated that "the end of all things is at hand". 1 John 2:18 wrote that the believers then were in "the last HOUR". Hebrews 1:2 wrote that God through the Son had spoken unto the believers "in these last days". Peter in Acts 2:17 interpreted Joel's prophecy about "the last days" as that time of Pentecost when the Spirit was being poured out on all flesh. Just how many texts do you need to figure out that the NT meant what it said?

You need new teachers. Did Jesus lead Gods armies( Rev 19:11) to earth back then= no--Is there no more-( Rev 21:4)mourning, outcries or pain or death? No, it has not occurred yet, neither has the resurrection. Gods kingdom rule will do away with those things. Any one can see we live in this satan ruled system still.

 

[Keiw1]

Then why do you insist only your 1% of people have gotten right? Are you of that single "religion" the only correct presenter of the gospel?

Yes here in these last days-truth becomes abundant.( Dan 12:4) It took correction, all of creation watched it being done over the last 140 years give or take.

 

[Eleanor]

Yes, that was the second coming - in AD 70 when those verses were fulfilled.

Is there any historical record of seeing the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory, sending his powerful angels with a loud trumpet call and gathering his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other?
Surely such an event would be recorded somewhere in history.