Believers Baptism

[CrowCross]

We must endure to the end to enter salvation

What is the context of this verse?
Under that context endure what?
To the end of what?
salvation....saved from what?

 

[CrowCross]

I was baptised as a baby in the Roman Catholic church. After I was saved I had a peculiar dream that involved me on the way to get water baptised. As I woke up I "heard" or experienced the words "the fruit of the spirit of faith in restitution". I say heard but I didn't hear any audible sound, it was more like the words were just somehow there in that experience. I immediately wrote that sentence down because I never knew the word "restitution" and it seemed strange to me. I looked it up later and found out it is a Biblical term. I also never knew what the fruit of the spirit was. That came later when I read the Bible more.

So, I have attempted to go to people or churches that will perform water baptism. The Anglican churches do not do adult baptisms if a person has been water baptised as an infant. I have tried baptist churches with no luck yet. I just walked to a local baptist church that has Thursday meetings and nobody was there. I have tried to get several different Christians I know to water baptise me and every time it has fallen through and I don't really know why.

So I suppose my question is, do I need to be water baptised?

If water baptism is a "requirement" for salvation....why is there not a chapter on this? Why is it not explained? Why are we not told how to administer water baptism?

As for infant baptism....where in the bible is an infant being baptized presented?

 

[Carbon]

If water baptism is a "requirement" for salvation....why is there not a chapter on this? Why is it not explained? Why are we not told how to administer water baptism?

Because it has nothing to do with regeneration.

As for infant baptism....where in the bible is an infant being baptized presented?

Do you expect the apostles to write, "we just baptized anoth infant today?" In the New Covenant, all the visible church shuld be baptized. Children of believing parents exspecially.
Since it isnt explicly mentioned in scripture, but many of the Early church discussed it, it must have been practiced.

 

[CrowCross]

Because it has nothing to do with regeneration.

Do you expect the apostles to write, "we just baptized anoth infant today?" In the New Covenant, all the visible church shuld be baptized. Children of believing parents exspecially.
Since it isnt explicly mentioned in scripture, but many of the Early church discussed it, it must have been practiced.

Yes, we should be baptized...all those baptized in the bible were believers.

Infant baptism may have been practiced....I don't know....but I would imagine it was more of a "dedication" of that infant to God.

 

[donadams]

Which of the 66 books in the bible do you find that teaching?

John

But there are 73 books without missing some chapters

 

[Carbon]

Yes, we should be baptized...all those baptized in the bible were believers.

Infant baptism may have been practiced....I don't know....but I would imagine it was more of a "dedication" of that infant to God.

You see, it comes down to exactly what baptism means. What does it achieve?
I believe it represents the church in the Covenant of Grace, the NT. Just as circumcision was in the OT.

 

[donadams]

Well if we are in him, we will remain faithful. God says He will finish in us what He has begun. Do you doubt Him?

Explain please

Judas

And

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Conditional perseverance:

((If you are saved there would no reason to participate, no reason to abide or endure, and no need for perseverance))

Mk 13:13 endure to the end
Matt 7:14
Matt 16:24
Matt 24:13 endure to the end
Jn 2:24-25
Jn 8:9
Jn 15:4 abide in christ
Jn 15:5
Jn 15:10
Rom 1:5
Rom 8:13-17
Rom 11:22
1 cor 7:24
1 cor 13:7
2 thes 1:4
Gal 5:2-4
Gal 5:25
Col 1:21-23
Col 2:5
2 Tim 2:3
2 Tim 2:12
1 pet 2:20
1 Jn 2:24-28
1 Jn 3:6
Heb 3:4-6
Heb 6:4-9
Heb 12:7
Heb 12:22-25
James 1:12

 

[donadams]

Well if we are him, we will remain faithful. God sais He will finish in us what He has begun. Do you doubt Him?

We still have free will

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

 

[Carbon]

John

But there are 73 books without missing some chapters

There are in the RCC. But the holy bible itself contains 66. Even Jerome, who interpreted it into Latin warned the Church of the historical value of the Apocriea. But not part of sacred scripture.

 

[donadams]

I've never heard that term before. Would you mind explaining?

The concept that says of you are in Christ you have guaranteed perseverance based on a faulty understanding of scripture

Such as

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now nocondemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[Carbon]

We still have free will

Of course, we do Don. I never said differently.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Ha, but a redeemed Christian will never ultimately deny Christ.

 

[Carbon]

We still have free will

Are you one of those who believe Calvinists do not believe men have free wills?

 

[Carbon]

The concept that says of you are in Christ you have guaranteed perseverance based on a faulty understanding of scripture

Such as

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now nocondemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

So, you believe, that even though Jesus paid the full price of your penalty, you can still be charged for it and condemned? Do you believe once man becomes a Christian, now God expects you to live a perfect life?

 

[Carbon]

Explain please

Judas

And

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Paul is teaching about Law and the gospel. You are not saved by your works. Read it again.

Conditional perseverance:

Where do you get this concept from? Surely not scripture.

From your Church maybe?

((If you are saved there would no reason to participate, no reason to abide or endure, and no need for perseverance))

But you do because it is who you are, once you are in Christ.

 

[donadams]

What is the context of this verse?
Under that context endure what?
To the end of what?
salvation....saved from what?

Mk 13:13 matt 24:13

Suffering persecution

Eternal salvation

There is more

Luke 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

Jn 15:1-5 abide in Christ

John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

1 Thessalonians 3:5
For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.

1 Timothy 2:15
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Heb 1:14 shall be heirs of salvation

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
(Must remain obedient)

(He who endured to the end) one who dies in a state of grace united to Jesus Christ by faith and baptism!
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:21
Matt 24:13


Can’t lose your salvation while still in this world:

Acts 1: 18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Jn 15:1-5 abide

Matt 24:12 endure

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end.

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

 

[donadams]

There are in the RCC. But the holy bible itself contains 66. Even Jerome, who interpreted it into Latin warned the Church of the historical value of the Apocriea. But not part of sacred scripture.

How do you know what is and what is not scripture?

 

[Carbon]

How do you know what is and what is not scripture?

I have read some pretty good stuff concerning these things. The RC perspective, the Protestant perspective, and the mixture of both.

I especially like best that scripture interprets scripture. It' all in harmony with itself. And the Apocrypha just don't harmonize.

 

[donadams]

Of course, we do Don. I never said differently.

Ha, but a redeemed Christian will never ultimately deny Christ.

Is Christ the redeemer of the whole world?

 

[Carbon]

Is Christ the redeemer of the whole world?

He is the only begotten Son. Is he not?

 

[donadams]

Are you one of those who believe Calvinists do not believe men have free wills?

No im no expert of other mens faith