Annihilationism is taught in the bible

[Bornfield]

probably because it took me about " 3 1/2 " hours to fully review each and every Greek verse from the manuscripts

and then comparing this directly to the translation - as what all was related to the what I was trying to say.

its a perfect masterpiece with no error and not room for debate - for those who do the same. This is always my goal but I value and cherish and appreciate being proven wrong - its just that I do not allow myself to be proven wrong because I only support the manuscripts -

in every thing, to me, the manuscripts always are fully examined, everything completely and totally taken as truth.

do you believe in manuscripts ? to me personally, it's not simply just a late 14 th century fad

 

[makesends]

probably because it took me about " 3 1/2 " hours to fully review each and every Greek verse from the manuscripts

and then comparing this directly to the translation - as what all was related to the what I was trying to say.

its a perfect masterpiece with no error and not room for debate - for those who do the same. This is always my goal but I value and cherish and appreciate being proven wrong - its just that I do not allow myself to be proven wrong because I only support the manuscripts -

in every thing, to me, the manuscripts always are fully examined, everything completely and totally taken as truth.

do you believe in manuscripts ? to me personally, it's not simply just a late 14 th century fad

Well, no. I'm talking about arranging each line centered, instead of beginning at the left margin. The eyes don't see continuity easily.

 

[Bornfield]

sorry

for some reason I believe that this format is easiest to securely relay the message I am trying to transmit in how that it will reach the reader with the best potential for a sure solid understand in less time - if one was to be interested to take such time to read.

understandably, time is limited for all of us and most people would not be particularly interested but some, a few will be interested

- if someone wants to reply I will be happy to respond in kind - if there is no response I most likely will not continue posting about it unless I found evidence that my post was missing an important point

or simply someday in the future someone may go back and read when they have time or find particular interest.

 

[justbyfaith]

There is no second death for humanity. That would contradict the rule in Hebrews 9:27 which says that it is appointed unto men ONCE to die.

The "second death" was for the city of Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70, comparable in many ways to its first death under the Babylonians in 586 BC. It was the second time that Death and Hell (Hades - the grave) came to overcome the city (Isaiah 28:14-19 compared with Revelation 20:14).

It is in fact appointed once to die and after this the judgment.

At the judgment, some will be cast into the lake of fire; which is the second death (Revelation 20:10-15).

 

[3 Resurrections]

It is in fact appointed once to die and after this the judgment.

At the judgment, some will be cast into the lake of fire; which is the second death (Revelation 20:10-15).

If humanity is only appointed to experience physical death the one time, then the phrase "second death" must apply to something else other than human death.

The "second death" was the death of the city of Jerusalem and its temple. The city and the sanctuary died for the first time when Death and Hell (Hades - the grave) came to overcome the inhabitants of the city in 586 BC under the Babylonian invasion (as in Isaiah 28:14-19).

The second time Death and Hell (Hades - the grave) were thrown into the city of Jerusalem (as in Revelation 20:14), the city and its temple died for a second time. This was the "second death", when the city turned into a literal Lake of Fire under the final Roman onslaught.

 

[justbyfaith]

The second death conscious, is eternal separation from God.

 

[3 Resurrections]

The second death conscious, is eternal separation from God.

The death of the soul of the wicked for the first time accomplishes that. Their physical bodies which have died will remain that way in the dust of the grave and do not rise, according to Isaiah 26:14. We are to fear Him who can destroy both body and soul so that the wicked exist no more after the judgment.

 

[justbyfaith]

The death of the soul of the wicked for the first time accomplishes that. Their physical bodies which have died will remain that way in the dust of the grave and do not rise, according to Isaiah 26:14. We are to fear Him who can destroy both body and soul so that the wicked exist no more after the judgment.

Some will be raised unto shame and everlasting contempt (Daniel 12:2); even unto the resurrection of damnation (John 5:29).

One cannot have shame if he has been totally annihilated.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Some will be raised unto shame and everlasting contempt (Daniel 12:2); even unto the resurrection of damnation (John 5:29).

One cannot have shame if he has been totally annihilated.

The souls of the wicked do rise for the judgment, but are destroyed in it, which earns them "shame and everlasting contempt". The memory of a wicked dead person certainly can be associated with shame and everlasting contempt. You are assuming that the wicked must have some kind of living existence to continue to feel that shame and contempt themselves, but that isn't quite what Daniel 12:2 states. It is the manner in which the wicked dead are regarded by others.

"The memory of the just is blessed: but the name of the wicked shall rot." (Proverbs 10:7).

 

[justbyfaith]

The souls of the wicked do rise for the judgment, but are destroyed in it, which earns them "shame and everlasting contempt". The memory of a wicked dead person certainly can be associated with shame and everlasting contempt. You are assuming that the wicked must have some kind of living existence to continue to feel that shame and contempt themselves, but that isn't quite what Daniel 12:2 states. It is the manner in which the wicked dead are regarded by others.

"The memory of the just is blessed: but the name of the wicked shall rot." (Proverbs 10:7).

So, they will be raised unto shame but will not feel shame because they are annihilated?

1) what is shame if it cannot be felt?

2) Why are they then raised? Why not just leave them in the state of death that they were in before? For in that state, it is just as if they are annihilated. Why raise them only to annihilate them again?

 

[3 Resurrections]

So, they will be raised unto shame but will not feel shame because they are annihilated?

Just how long do you think a wicked soul can survive in God's presence with a fiery stream issuing forth from before His throne, as in Daniel 7:10? Is there time to feel anything before that soul is destroyed by God? You tell me.

2) Why are they then raised? Why not just leave them in the state of death that they were in before? For in that state, it is just as if they are annihilated. Why raise them only to annihilate them again?

They are not "annihilated again". The bodies of the wicked are left in that state of death in the dust of the grave. But the souls of the wicked are reserved by God after their physical death so that they can be resurrected to face Him in the judgment when they are punished (2 Peter 2:9). All mankind is called to give an account before God, whether just or unjust. The wicked do not survive this process, but perish under it. The righteous have the covering of Christ's righteousness, and are blessed to be able to "dwell with everlasting burnings" which come out from before God's throne in Daniel 7:10.

As Isaiah 33:14-15 once wrote, "...who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly;...he shall dwell on high..." This is a blessing of the righteous being destined to live directly in God's presence - a blessing which the wicked cannot experience since they are destroyed by this consuming fire.

 

[justbyfaith]

Don't be ridiculous.

Those who dwell with everlasting burnings are the unrighteous (sinners, hypocrites).

As for the righteous, his waters shall be sure.

Isa 33:14, The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
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Isa 33:15, He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
Isa 33:16, He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Don't be ridiculous.

Those who dwell with everlasting burnings are the unrighteous (sinners, hypocrites).

You aren't following Isaiah's own answer to his own question. Isaiah's immediate response to his own question is that the righteous are the ones who are blessed to be able to dwell on high with everlasting burnings and the devouring fire. The "sinners" are afraid of this.

Our God is called "a consuming fire" in Hebrews 12:29. It will be an eternal blessing for us to be able to dwell face-to-face with that consuming fire of God's utter holiness in incorruptible bodies made immortal. In His presence is fullness of joy. At His right hand there are pleasures forevermore.

 

[justbyfaith]

You aren't following Isaiah's own answer to his own question. Isaiah's immediate response to his own question is that the righteous are the ones who are blessed to be able to dwell on high with everlasting burnings and the devouring fire. The "sinners" are afraid of this.

Our God is called "a consuming fire" in Hebrews 12:29. It will be an eternal blessing for us to be able to dwell face-to-face with that consuming fire of God's utter holiness in incorruptible bodies made immortal. In His presence is fullness of joy. At His right hand there are pleasures forevermore.

We will not be experiencing "burnings"...such a thing denotes severe pain.

 

[3 Resurrections]

We will not be experiencing "burnings"...such a thing denotes severe pain.

You will of course remember the three Hebrew children who were able to do just fine in the fiery furnace by God sustaining them in that environment, without even the scent of smoke on their clothing.

That is described as "a fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him" in Daniel 7:10's vision of the enthroned Ancient of Days. The risen, resurrected Son of Man "was brought near before the Ancient of Days", so apparently that "fiery stream" issuing forth from before God's throne has no effect on a glorified, resurrected human form, such as we will also have in our glorified state when our bodies will be "fashioned like unto His glorious body" (Philippians 3:21).

 

[justbyfaith]

You will of course remember the three Hebrew children who were able to do just fine in the fiery furnace by God sustaining them in that environment, without even the scent of smoke on their clothing.

That is described as "a fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him" in Daniel 7:10's vision of the enthroned Ancient of Days. The risen, resurrected Son of Man "was brought near before the Ancient of Days", so apparently that "fiery stream" issuing forth from God's throne has no effect on a glorified, resurrected human form, such as we will also have in our glorified state when our bodies will be "fashioned like unto His glorious body" (Philippians 3:21).

The 3 Hebrew children were not "burned".

 

[3 Resurrections]

The 3 Hebrew children were not "burned".

Of course, that's the point. We will likewise be able to dwell with God's consuming fire without harm resulting to us in our glorified immortal state.

 

[justbyfaith]

Of course, that's the point. We will likewise be able to dwell with God's consuming fire without harm resulting to us in our glorified immortal state.

Those who are cast into the lake of fire shall dwell with "everlasting burnings" according to Isaiah 33:14.

That denotes severe pain.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Those who are cast into the lake of fire shall dwell with "everlasting burnings" according to Isaiah 33:14.

That denotes severe pain.

Isaiah does not say the sinners will be dwelling with those everlasting burnings. After Isaiah asks who will dwell with the devouring fire and the everlasting burnings, He answers his own question, saying that the righteous will dwell on high with that devouring fire. If you can't understand that simple sentence structure, then we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[justbyfaith]

Isaiah does not say the sinners will be dwelling with those everlasting burnings. After Isaiah asks who will dwell with the devouring fire and the everlasting burnings, He answers his own question, saying that the righteous will dwell on high with that devouring fire. If you can't understand that simple sentence structure, then we will just have to agree to disagree.

No, it says that for the righteous, their waters shall be sure.

That means, no fire; for it would be quenched by the water.

The everlasting burnings are clearly meted out to the hypocrites and sinners in Zion.