Annihilationism is taught in the bible

[DialecticSkeptic]

Part 3​

And I don't think it is a bad thing to remain unconvinced by what seems logical yet feels dangerous for the mind. You and I have both seen madmen on these forums who, as G. K. Chesterton said, have a logic all the more quick for lack of good sense. (No, that's not a quote).

Chesterton said that the madman is not the man who has lost his reason but rather the man who has lost everything except his reason. I think this means that someone who is entirely logical or reasonable but lacks a broader perspective may be considered "mad" in a sense. He was highlighting the importance of balancing logic and reason with wisdom and common sense, or the need for a holistic approach to understanding the world.

My question for you is, "What is dangerous?"

And it may be possible, in God's economy, that moral and physical are one and the same thing. His is a 'simple' existence, in which we are to be included.

Being able to string those words together does not make the thing possible. I can say that "a triangle is a geometric shape consisting of four straight sides and three angles," but it is categorically impossible. Do we learn from the Bible, logic, or even common sense that the moral and the physical are one and the same thing? In what sense is that possible? More importantly, do we have any reason to think, whether biblically or otherwise, that the wicked in hell are to be included in God's simple existence?

Don't several authors [in the Bible] refer to the punishment as a place and torment forever?

Given my question to you, that's for you to establish. Let's look at the two citations you provided. In the gospel of Mark, he speaks of hell as an "unquenchable fire" (9:43), a place "where their worm never dies and the fire is never quenched" (9:48). Unpack this for me, please, because I am not seeing eternal conscious torment here in any obvious way.

And Daniel 12:2 says, "Many of those who sleep in the dusty ground will awake—some to everlasting life, and others to shame and everlasting abhorrence." How does shame and everlasting abhorrence about the wicked imply their ongoing existence? Surely memory is a thing. Hitler hasn't been around for a long time but he is still abhorred to this day.

As an aside: Unquenchable doesn't mean "burns forever," even though that seems to be how most Christians perceive it. An old barn burning out of control can't be put out (unquenchable), but that doesn't imply it will continue burning forever. Every unquenchable fire known to man has eventually burned out. Even Sodom and Gomorrah suffered "the punishment of eternal fire" (Jude 1:7) which is not still burning.

I'm not saying that being made in the image of God makes us automatically immortal —far from it—but that being a special creation, in its own right more special than even the angels, to me makes the notion of sudden cessation of existence seem all the more ludicrous.

You are appealing to the stone, sir, dismissing an argument as ludicrous by stating or reiterating that it's ludicrous, without providing further argumentation. How, exactly, is it ludicrous?

 

[ChristB4us]

This is a short list of the word FIRE being used to mean JUDGEMENT. Psalm 78:21 Psalm 79:5 Psalm 89:46 Psalm 104:4 Isaiah 4:4 Isaiah 66:15 Isaiah 66:16 Deuteronomy 32:22. Amos 7:4 Hebrews 10:27 2 Peter 3:7 The word "fire and lightning" is often used as a parable to mean judgment. In one place the word "coal" means judgment. And where there is smoke there is fire, so the word "smoke" can also be used as a parable to mean judgment. KJV Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be (tormented / touch stoned) with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their (torment / touch stone) ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. "Touch stone" is parabolic for rubbed out. Rubbed out means dead. Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be (tormented / touch stoned) day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:14 And death and (hell / grave) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. The correct translation is "grave." The word "fire" is being used as a parable to mean "judgement." If Hell is done away with in the second death, then how can there be anyone to torment?

Although I agree that there will be a fire on the earth in God's coming judgment in the near future after the rapture event, which will be following the angel that shares the gospel to every one left behind, I'd say that your reference to touch stone and it also meaning dead as if "rubbed out" of existence is way off for that to be the meaning in Revelation.

You need to discern with Him Revelation 14:11 for how they have no rest day or night and Revelation 20:10 for how this torment is day and night for ever and ever. So this comes off as testifying to that existence of torment where there is no rest from in that lake of fire day and night, thus a knowledge of the passage of time is testified for all those that are cast into the lake of fire.

How can they be rubbed out as if rubbed out of existence day and night for ever and ever where there is no rest for them from such a torment for being thrown in the lake of fire? That can still read as if being rubbed out from the presence of God and all that is good as ongoing and never ending; thus forever separated from God and all that is good in His Presence to suffer no rest from that in the lake of fire.

The second death is testifying to being eternally judged because of dying in sin of unbelief thus never having believed in Jesus Christ, to be separated from God and all that is good by His word forever.

2 Timothy 2nd Chapter KJV In verses 10-13, we see how God will judge the saved believers that have gone astray to not believe in him any more and yet he is faithful for He still abides in verse 13 even after denying them for denying Him in verse 12, thus left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event, and how by one example of how believers became former believers, in verses 18, they are still called to depart from iniquity in verses 19-21 before He comes or before they die so that they can be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House at the pre great tribulation rapture event.

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Those that are not found abiding in Him because of unrepentant iniquity ( as any iniquity is a work that denies Him per Titus 1:16 for why He would deny them ) shall be left behind to die, but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven to await for their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood and earth, to serve the King of kings on earth.

See how this reference in Revelation cannot be a metaphor as the souls under the altar are awaiting for their resurrection after the great tribulation below?

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Note how day and night is also applied here underlined in verse 15 as conscious of the passage of time?

 

[ChristB4us]

This is a short list of the word FIRE being used to mean JUDGEMENT. The word "fire and lightning" is often used as a parable to mean judgment. In one place the word "coal" means judgment. And where there is smoke there is fire, so the word "smoke" can also be used as a parable to mean judgment.

Continued from last reply to you;

Anyway, there can be no sympathy for those who have never believed in Jesus Christ because they prefer the evil than come to the light to be reproved of them by believing in Him. Therefore they prefer their evil deeds rather than live an existence with God and all that is good.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

I believe God's promise that all those that seek, shall find, meaning that no one in hell can say that they would have believed in the gospel had they known. See His work in knowing who would receive him from those that would not.

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, 7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. 8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

That also includes the Lord still working in those who may have put off believing in Him, that may believe in Him later on in life before they die or after the rapture event in hearing that everlasting gospel by that angel that will spread it all over the world before the end comes.

It is never having believed in Jesus Christ is how they are not having the forever indwelling Holy Spirit in them, is the unforgiveable sin convicted by the Holy Spirit by how they are separated from God and all that is good for ever.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

As you would judged Satan and his angels to suffer torment forever and ever, so will those who are not written in the Book of Life as just as evil. One may surmise that seeing His forever judgment of the damned by His words, would continually give assurances in His words that they would never be separated from God by sin ever again in the end when Jesus gives back the completed kingdom of Heaven to the Father.

 

[makesends]

@makesends -- As of Tuesday morning (October 3), I will be out of town and away from my computer for the next two weeks on a much-needed vacation. I submit the following for your consideration but I don't expect a response from you (because there is a lot here). Just mull these things over for a bit. If you would like to pick this back up again when I return, perhaps we could subject just one or two items to a deep dive.

Thanks. I will do so. I am not always good at remembering what was going on in my mind when I wrote something, but I will try to take it back up. For whatever it is worth, I very appreciate your patience with me, and your clarity and directness of thinking.

A couple of immediate thoughts: At this point, my mind still runs mainly on the question of Scriptural warrant (apart from Revelation) for /against ECT. And I concede that even Rev statements of longevity of suffering may, in God's economy, not be time-relevant, but if not, then cessation of existence seems to me to lose meaning.

 

[Mr GLee]

As a point of clarification: If something DOES exist at some point, then it IS real. If it DOESN'T exist at a later point, then it WAS real. Its existence never ceases being a fact, even after it no longer exists—but it changes to a historical fact. It was real then, it is not real now.

Can't change a historical fact but the spiritual eternal understanding is separate from the temporal seen,the literal. They must be mixed or the value of the parable is lost

In once sense what did exist before it was created "let there be"?

Can God declare things to never exist ? I'm thinking of names that were blotted out. Or a whole creation.

According to John 14 our memory is dependent on Him. He brings to our mind the things he has previously taught to include our memory of each other . Alzheimer's would seem the one last of the plagues of these bodies of death before the golden bowl is broken.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the u shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

 

[3 Resurrections]

This is my testimony and you can take it for what its worth. If it has the desired effect, it will overcome the devil's lies if you have believed in them (Revelation 12:10-11).

One of the lies which I was taught from infancy was the concept of eternal conscious torment. It goes against everything that scripture teaches about God destroying the wicked both body and soul so that they exist no more after the judgment. The whole "turn or burn" evangelistic emphasis may have scared some into the kingdom, but on the other hand, it has repelled many more than that by its presentation of God as an infinite sadist.

"Ye shall not surely die" was the first recorded lie of Satan in the Garden, and the ECT proponents believe this lie about the state of the wicked after the judgment.

 

[JIM]

Please provide the source material(s) for this novel and unconventional interpretation you presented.

An interpretation of Psalms 51 unencumbered by the false teaching of Original Sin or the even worse Total Depravity.

To be perfectly clear: I didn't say Adam created my spirit, I said Adam stuck me with a dead spirit. In other words, Adam answers the question of why we are born with a spiritually dead nature into a spiritually dead world.

Our spirits are formed in us by God, Himself (Zech 12:1); those spirits are not dead. Flesh comes from flesh and spirit comes from Spirit (John3:6). Adam was not given any power whatsoever over the spirits of his descendants (Ezek 18).

 

[CherubRam]

In Matthew 13:41-42, Jesus gives us the meaning of the parable and what it means by fire...an actual furnace that men will be thrown into, where there will be literal "wailing and gnashing of teeth."

In Matthew 13:41-42, Jesus is no longer giving an allegory. He is giving the interpretation; and thus He is to be taken literally.

He did not explain what the "blazing furnace" is, for which is an indication that it was added to scriptures.

Note: Orthodox Jews do not believe in a Hell. The word "Hell" was added to scriptures by the Catholics. Yahshua and his Disciples were Orthodox Jews.

 

[Mr GLee]

He did not explain what the "blazing furnace" is, for which is an indication that it was added to scriptures.

Note: Orthodox Jews do not believe in a Hell. The word "Hell" was added to scriptures by the Catholics. Yahshua and his Disciples were Orthodox Jews.

Hi I would offer.

God's living word has the "power" or "fire" of life or death .according to the power of his word. . . it can consume up in smoke or he can prevent it from burning a dry bush or the ceremonial clothing of Aaron's two sons. . . the judgment of God consumed the two who offered strange fire ( self edifying, false pride. . . "fire" of the fall )

The bible defines hell as suffering unto death (not dead never to rise.) suffering (the Father) poured out His Spirit on the son of man. Jesus that has no power. The Father bruised his heel crushed the serpent's head

Matthew 26:38-39 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

The fulfillment of prophecy spoken of in Genesis 3:15 as well as Isaiah 53. Two witnesses to the promised three day and night demonstration.

The garden Gethsemane demonstration. . . the first (fulfill prophecy) , the second the hill of the skull more popular a sign to the world the (bloody demonstration).Both demonstration were necessary along with the third part the tomb the finish .

The garden for the believer trusting prophecy "two working as one". The father put the disciples to sleep three times to confirm the prophecies .
The bloody demonstration the second part a outward sign to the world in a hope of turning the wonderings into believing God not seen.

Leading mankind to the source of wondering. . . the living God who draws born again mankind to himself . the last sign given to wonder after being made complete during the three day and night demonstration.

Comparing Jonas with Jesus the Son of man Jesus. Jesus did the will of the father with delight . .Jonas who kicked against the prick the leter of the letter of the law wanted to die knowing God was a God of his word . He hated that God could teach those who do not know their left from thier right hand to prove God is not served by prideful false apostles . the many in Mathew 7 that we say we cast out demons and done wonderful works .He never knew them. He knows all he sends with His fire power

 

[Bornfield]

I believe that realistically the term " Hell " simply means basic = Death

the : Lake Of Fire : is mentioned a few times in the bible

hell /' hades in Greek and she'ôl in Hebrew - these refer to death - being dead in the grave


Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into the grave, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

Jas 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

this last verse does show that there is a difference between Hades / Hell and the lake of fire -

but Hell means death - and hell and death will be cast into the lake of fire and all whom are in death / hell who deserve the lake of fire will follow death into the fire

basically hell is the death of death and hell - hell and death are consumed in fire
death dies by fire



1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting?

O grave - ᾅδης - hadēs / hell

where is thy victory?


ᾅδης - hadēs “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - the grave, hell.


we could say if being more accurate to the manuscripts of Hebrew

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and THE GRAVE delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

 

[Mr GLee]

I believe that realistically the term " Hell " simply means basic = Death

the : Lake Of Fire : is mentioned a few times in the bible

hell /' hades in Greek and she'ôl in Hebrew - these refer to death - being dead in the grave


Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into the grave, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

Jas 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

this last verse does show that there is a difference between Hades / Hell and the lake of fire -

but Hell means death - and hell and death will be cast into the lake of fire and all whom are in death / hell who deserve the lake of fire will follow death into the fire

basically hell is the death of death and hell - hell and death are consumed in fire
death dies by fire



1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting?

O grave - ᾅδης - hadēs / hell

where is thy victory?


ᾅδης - hadēs “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - the grave, hell.


we could say if being more accurate to the manuscripts of Hebrew

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and THE GRAVE delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Hi Thanks I think hell is the sufferings acquired from dying leading toward a end the last breath of oxygen I think death = the letter of the law God instrument of judging. the second death the letter of the law the death of death. it will not rise up and condemn through corruption dying (as good as dead) forever more the former things will not be remembered or ever come to mind to include the letter death
It was a oral traditions of the fathers I heard it through the religious leader grape vine that need more time of suffering after one takes the last breath they must to continue to suffer and wonder with no end in sight.

All but a queen mother of heaven received a unknown remnant of Grace which she received the fullness of Grace the entire cost of salvation it was passed on from the Pharisees with Sadducees we can.see its testimony even today They denied the first century reformation the 15th a carbon copy. . same Queen Mother different legion of fathers

 

[justbyfaith]

One of the lies which I was taught from infancy was the concept of eternal conscious torment. It goes against everything that scripture teaches about God destroying the wicked both body and soul so that they exist no more after the judgment. The whole "turn or burn" evangelistic emphasis may have scared some into the kingdom, but on the other hand, it has repelled many more than that by its presentation of God as an infinite sadist.

"Ye shall not surely die" was the first recorded lie of Satan in the Garden, and the ECT proponents believe this lie about the state of the wicked after the judgment.

Adam and Eve died spiritually when they partook of the fruit and became subject to eternal judgment.

 

[justbyfaith]

He did not explain what the "blazing furnace" is, for which is an indication that it was added to scriptures.

Note: Orthodox Jews do not believe in a Hell. The word "Hell" was added to scriptures by the Catholics. Yahshua and his Disciples were Orthodox Jews.

The blazing furnace is, very simply, a blazing furnace. It represents being consumed in fire at the judgment. Now, since it is everlasting punishment, I conclude that the "wailing and gnashing of teeth" will last for ever.

 

[Mr GLee]

The blazing furnace is, very simply, a blazing furnace. It represents being consumed in fire at the judgment. Now, since it is everlasting punishment, I conclude that the "wailing and gnashing of teeth" will last for ever.

How can a person perform that without oxygen. . . the breath of life ???

 

[3 Resurrections]

Adam and Eve died spiritually when they partook of the fruit and became subject to eternal judgment.

Of course they did. And a dead spirit always produces death of the physical body by association with that dead spirit. Only for those in Christ can that death sentence of both body and soul be changed to eternal life of both body and soul.

 

[justbyfaith]

Of course they did. And a dead spirit always produces death of the physical body by association with that dead spirit. Only for those in Christ can that death sentence of both body and soul be changed to eternal life of both body and soul.

There is a second death which is conscious eternal separation from God (as the term "death" can be defined as separation).

 

[3 Resurrections]

There is a second death which is conscious eternal separation from God (as the term "death" can be defined as separation).

There is no second death for humanity. That would contradict the rule in Hebrews 9:27 which says that it is appointed unto men ONCE to die.

The "second death" was for the city of Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70, comparable in many ways to its first death under the Babylonians in 586 BC. It was the second time that Death and Hell (Hades - the grave) came to overcome the city (Isaiah 28:14-19 compared with Revelation 20:14).

 

[Bornfield]

Basically γέεννα - { Yehenna - gheh'-en-nah } is always translated as the word " HELL "

but - was this what Jesus was referring to as the literal place in Israel where the where the bodies / corpses of evil individuals and criminals were buried or placed ?
{ Yehenna was a literal place, a great valley where dead animals, junk and feces / refuse was thrown into.

The Yehenna Valley was a place of burning sewage, burning flesh, and garbage. Maggots and worms crawled through the waste, and the smoke smelled strong and sickening

Isaiah 30:33 { Yehenna } - was a place, utterly filthy, disgusting, and repulsive to the nose and eyes.

Yehenna is a word for a literal place in Israel - Christ used this word 12 total times in the manuscripts when ministering to his Hebrew people, referring one dying and going to the grave and dying in disgrace and shame - as being thrown or cast into the valley called “ Yehenna

Yet - γέεννα - Yehenna is a word that the translations always translate as the word “ hell “ but yet it is a literal name for a physical location and it is a great valley called “ Yehenna “

the literal physical valley called “ γέεννα - Yehenna “ is translated as “ Hell “ in these 12 passages in the translations
Mat 5:22, + 29, Mat 5:30, Mat 10:28, Mat 18:9, Mat 23:15 + 33, Mar 9:43, + 45, Mar 9:47, Luk 12:5, Jas 3:6

To speculate as to why the translations change or remove the original word “ Yehenna “ - the valley,
changing this word into the word “ HELL , “ is because the translators noticed that Jesus seemed to literally be speaking of place of Yehenna as a literal place where the soul can be literally destroyed.
The translators then always translated the word “ Yehenna “ as - - HELL - always and never translated this word " Yehenna " as the literal valley as the location in Israel called - " Yehenna "

However, in the manuscripts, the Greek the word Jesus used to say as = destroyed, is the word - “ ἀπόλλυμι - apollumi “
- this Greek word often in the manuscripts is also used to denote a state of being “ LOST “ - UN – SAVABLE, discontinued for usage - un savable - - UN – RECOVERABLE- perishable - ruined

Notice please
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to -
ἀπόλλυμι - loose / perish / ruined destroyed ? / lost both soul and body in - γέεννα - Yehenna



This same exact Greek word -- “ ἀπόλλυμι - apollumi “ -- is translated many times, as - lost / loose

Mat 10:6 - ἀπόλλυμι - lost sheep
Mat 15:24 l- ἀπόλλυμι - lost sheep
Mat 18:11 that which was - ἀπόλλυμι - lost lost.
Luk 15:4 if he - ἀπόλλυμι - loose one
Luk 15:6 sheep which was - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Luk 15:24 my son was - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Luk 15:32 brother was dead and was - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Luk 19:10 save that which was - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Joh 6:12 that nothing be - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Joh 18:9 I - ἀπόλλυμι - lost none.
2Co 4:3 to them that are - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Mat 10:39 he that - ἀπόλλυμι - loosest his life
Mat 10:42 in no wise - ἀπόλλυμι - lost his reward.
Mat 16:25 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life

Mar 2:22 the bottles will be lost - ruined - no longer usable - - ἀπόλλυμι - lost

Mar 8:35 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life
Mar 8:35 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life
Mar 9:41 he shall not - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his reward.
Luk 9:24 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life
Luk 9:25 a man - ἀπόλλυμι - loose himself
Luk 15:4 he lose one of them - that which is lost
Luk 15:8 if she - ἀπόλλυμι - lose one piece
Luk 17:33 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life
Joh 6:12 that nothing be - ἀπόλλυμι - lost
Joh 12:25 shall - ἀπόλλυμι - lose his life
2Jn 1:8 that we - ἀπόλλυμι - loose not those things


In the manuscripts, the Greek word - “ ἀπόλλυμι - lost “ is very often expressed as explaining a state of being lost, loosing, perishing and the translators also use this same word as how it is expressed in the scriptures as a state of being lost, loosing, and perishing ruination - of the soul




​

 

[Bornfield]

Could it be that Jesus was truly intending to use literal location of the Valley called - γέεννα / Yehenna,, - which is a literal place in Israel, as a literal example to describe to the Hebrew people - as being lost, - loosing, and perishing ruining - their souls, as receiving a disgraceful, shameful, horrible and dishonorable burial -

intended - as a comparison of the way the soul will disgracefully, shamefully, horribly be lost and perished and ruined in death also ?


Mat 10:28
και And - μη not - φοβηθητε be afraid - απο of - των them - αποκτεινοντων of whom kill - το the - σωμα body - την that - δε also - ψυχην the soul - μη not - δυναμενων are able to - αποκτειναι to kill - φοβηθητε be afraid - δε also - μαλλον rather - τον that - δυναμενον are able - και also - ψυχην the soul - και and - σωμα body - απολεσαι loose / perish - εν in - γεεννη Yeenna

meaning

And not be afraid of them of whom kill the body that also the soul not are able to kill

be afraid also rather that are able to also the soul and body loose / perish in - Yeenna



the manuscripts show that the word “ “ ᾅδης - hadēs / “Hades” simply means - THE GRAVE - HELL
11 total times the Greek word “ hadēs “ is translated as the word “ hell “

But the other additional 12 times we see the word hell - that literally, Jesus was using the Valley of Yehenna which is a literal place in Israel , using this word 12 total times in the manuscripts as a parable or symbolic meaning -
referring to one dying and going the Valley of Yehenna and dying in disgrace and shame - as if they are being thrown or cast into the valley called “ Yehenna “​

explaining

to a Hebrew audience that their very soul and spirit will also be lost in disgrace and shame and perish and be ruined for eternity and that Yehenna and Hades being the words always translated as hell
could it be ----- ? ?
Hades - was rather always, originally intended in the manuscripts to be translated as simply ----- the grave ?
and
Yehenna - was rather always, originally intended in the manuscripts to be translated as ----- the Valley of Yehenna - as the literal location and physical place that exists ?​

 

[makesends]

That format is hard to read.