Young Earth/Old Earth

[EarlyActs]

You think Satan fell when he tempted Eve? And you think that is clear? Do you mind pointing that out?

No he means between D6 and the temptation. We don't know how long that was.

 

[Carbon]

No he means between D6 and the temptation. We don't know how long that was.

Even if day 6 was 1 million years, there is still no scripture support

 

[TB2]

Your saying death came to animals because of Adam's sin? Prove it with scripture.

Is that what I said? No, I said Scripture teaches all life died in the flood (except those in the ark) due to the sin of humanity. I also said Adam's sin only affected humans. You must have read my comment too quickly.

 

[EarlyActs]

Even if day 6 was 1 million years, there is still no scripture support

Well it wasn't, but it is kind of dismal view to think that the temptation happened right away. We don't even know if Eve was pregnant when tempted. I mean, if you are supposed to 'swarm with swarms' to fulfill the word 'multiply,' you had to get busy! They were dressed for the job, you might say, lol.

 

[EarlyActs]

Is that what I said? No, I said Scripture teaches all life died in the flood (except those in the ark) due to the sin of humanity. I also said Adam's sin only affected humans. You must have read my comment too quickly.

I think Dr. Schaeffer taught that there was an effect on creation from the sin.
Both humanity and nature were affected by sin. The creation groans together, since humanity and nature are finite together. When meat-eating was allowed, then there was the issue of tending willful animals.

 

[Carbon]

Is that what I said?

here is what you said.

TB2 said:
We do see death come to animals (and all life really) as a consequence of humanity's sin

Which part did I read too fast?

No, I said Scripture teaches all life died in the flood (except those in the ark) due to the sin of humanity. I also said Adam's sin only affected humans. You must have read my comment too quickly.

 

[TB2]

We do see death come to animals (and all life really) as a consequence of humanity's sin (like with the flood), but when it comes to Adam's sin we only see the effect on humans.

You clipped off part of my quote by accident

 

[GeneZ]

But you said, Satan tempted Eve after day six.

I notice this concept, satan sinned on day six or after day six is mainly by young earthers. It would be pretty smart if they could prove it.

I also noticed that outside of this debate, most think satan sinned in eternity past.

Either is an argument from silence.

Angels preceded the creation of our present world.

For the angels were present to watch and celebrate God's first creating (in the beginning) the planet earth. (Genesis 1:1)

“Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?​

Tell Me, if you have understanding.​

Who determined its measurements?​

Surely you know!​

Or who stretched the line upon it?​

To what were its foundations fastened?​

Or who laid its cornerstone,​

When the morning stars sang together,​

And all the sons of God shouted for joy?​

​

​

Job 38:4-7​

Morning stars singing were like Lucifer = light bearing angels.

Sons of God cheering were the common everyday angels.

grace and peace ....................

 

[EarlyActs]

Angels preceded the creation of our present world.

For the angels were present to watch and celebrate God's first creating (in the beginning) the planet earth. (Genesis 1:1)

“Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?​

Tell Me, if you have understanding.​

Who determined its measurements?​

Surely you know!​

Or who stretched the line upon it?​

To what were its foundations fastened?​

Or who laid its cornerstone,​

When the morning stars sang together,​

And all the sons of God shouted for joy?​

​

​

Job 38:4-7​

Morning stars singing were like Lucifer = light bearing angels.

Sons of God cheering were the common everyday angels.

grace and peace ....................

I would have to agree that Job 38 supports a revolt sometime between D6 and the temptation. Here is another way to approach it: how long did Gen 2:4+ last? The creation of Eve is D6 but the other things are unknown.

Or: why do we find the Serpent in the humble crawling form? Was it a humiliation? It is curious to me that the surrounding nations' cosmology involved a monster/lizard which had to be defeated (sometimes even saying that the material of earth were the decimated body of the monster and were used by the Creator to make earth.). I believe the details are up above.

How much time have you spent on 'ekpalai' and 'sunestosa' in 2 Peter 3? Also, on 'katartisthasai' in Heb 11:2?

 

[GeneZ]

I would have to agree that Job 38 supports a revolt sometime between D6 and the temptation. Here is another way to approach it: how long did Gen 2:4+ last? The creation of Eve is D6 but the other things are unknown.

Or: why do we find the Serpent in the humble crawling form? Was it a humiliation? It is curious to me that the surrounding nations' cosmology involved a monster/lizard which had to be defeated (sometimes even saying that the material of earth were the decimated body of the monster and were used by the Creator to make earth.). I believe the details are up above.

How much time have you spent on 'ekpalai' and 'sunestosa' in 2 Peter 3? Also, on 'katartisthasai' in Heb 11:2?

If you understood that a prehistoric creation existed before our world replaced it on the surface of the earth?
And, that the prehistoric creation was to be under the dominion of angels, just as Adam was the head over this creation?
You might begin to better understand reasons why Satan fell, and when.

 

[TB2]

If you understood that a prehistoric creation existed before our world replaced it on the surface of the earth?
And, that the prehistoric creation was to be under the dominion of angels, just as Adam was the head over this creation?
You might begin to better understand reasons why Satan fell, and when.

And there's sooooooo much speculation in all of that

 

[GeneZ]

And there's sooooooo much speculation in all of that

Are you a young earth creationist?

There are some people that enjoy their own speculations so much they see anything contrary as being speculation.

I find that an irony that I must learn to live with.

 

[TB2]

Are you a young earth creationist?

There are some people that enjoy their own speculations so much they see anything contrary as being speculation.

I find that an irony that I must learn to live with.

No, I am not a YEC, nor am I an OEC, nor do I fit any of the standard concordist theories. See my "Scientific Concordism vs Divine Accommodation" post for a clarification of my views

 

[GeneZ]

No, I am not a YEC, nor am I an OEC, nor do I fit any of the standard concordist theories. See my "Scientific Concordism vs Divine Accommodation" post for a clarification of my views

In other words...

You are making the Bible to fit your desired scientific model....

But, maybe?

That's just speculation on my part.

...........

 

[TB2]

In other words...

You are making the Bible to fit your desired scientific model.

Ummmm, NO, you obviously didn't read the link to my post which explains why I believe the exact opposite (!!!)

 

[GeneZ]

Ummmm, NO, you obviously didn't read the link to my post which explains why I believe the exact opposite (!!!)

Concordism: "Concordism refers to the position that the teaching of the Bible on the natural world, properly interpreted, will agree with the teaching of science (when it properly understands the data), and may in fact supplement science. The concordist not only believes that nature and Scripture will harmonize, but sees specific references in the Bible to current scientific understanding of the universe. The concordist, then, looks for those close parallels in order to show that Scripture concords or agrees with scientific conclusions."

Maybe I said what I did because of how I see current science butchering reality.
Scripture does not agree with too many scientific conclusions.

Yet, the evidence they speculate and theorize over can for the first time be finally understood by science.

 

[TB2]

Concordism: "Concordism refers to the position that the teaching of the Bible on the natural world, properly interpreted, will agree with the teaching of science (when it properly understands the data), and may in fact supplement science. The concordist not only believes that nature and Scripture will harmonize, but sees specific references in the Bible to current scientific understanding of the universe. The concordist, then, looks for those close parallels in order to show that Scripture concords or agrees with scientific conclusions."

Maybe I said what I did because of how I see current science butchering reality.
Scripture does not agree with too many scientific conclusions.

Yet, the evidence they speculate and theorize over can for the first time be finally understood by science.

You stopped too soon. If you keep reading through my post(s), then you'll see that I reject scientific concordism, and support divine accommodation

 

[GeneZ]

You stopped too soon. If you keep reading through my post(s), then you'll see that I reject scientific concordism, and support divine accommodation

My response at the very end was...


Yet, the evidence they speculate and theorize over can for the first time be finally understood by science.

I have learned some pretty amazing things from Scripture as to why we find the different prehistoric periods.
It has to do with angels starting out and God getting them to develop and mature progressively in the gifts
He had given them.....

 

[TB2]

Yet, the evidence they speculate and theorize over can for the first time be finally understood by science.

My post was that scientific concordism commits the error of anachronism

I have learned some pretty amazing things from Scripture as to why we find the different prehistoric periods.
It has to do with angels starting out and God getting them to develop and mature progressively in the gifts
He had given them.....

I'm not sure how clear Scripture is about such things

 

[GeneZ]

I'm not sure how clear Scripture is about such things

​

And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight."​

Philippians 1:9​

To understand what I spoke of concerning why we find distinct prehistoric periods requires securing knowledge to gain the insight.

​

And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight."​

Insights are never spelled out in black and white in Scripture. Its something we must build and construct with knowledge.

I will give you hidden treasures,
riches stored in secret places,
so that you may know that I am the Lord,
the God of Israel, who summons you by name."

Isaiah 45:3​

Isaiah is telling us...

Its insights that makes us realize we are not playing some game with religion like men do.
That salvation and eternity are real, and we are being made able to know we are partakers
in a life that others can not know is real! They only can hope its real.


Keep in mind.

John 1:1 tells us that the Word is God. John 1:14 tells us that Jesus became the Word made flesh.

And, God has now given us His Word in writing ....

That their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining ​

to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery ​

of God, both of the Father and of Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of ​

wisdom and knowledge." Col 2:2-3​

​

Its what is hidden below the surface that is to be dug out (by God's grace) located through studying and learning sound doctrine....

"Buried Treasures" = Insight gifts from God.


grace and peace

.​