Young Earth/Old Earth

[CrowCross]

Also, if I see one thing where an OEC denies any part of God's word, I'll drop it in an instant.

For the most part OEC denies a world wide flood.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

The whole point about the old-earth suppositions is to try and shoehorn evolution into the Bible.

As far as I understand it, most old-earth creationists don't believe in evolution, so they're certainly not trying to shoehorn it into the Bible.

 

[Carbon]

For the most part OEC denies a world wide flood.

Yes, I have heard that. But I don't see how an OEC has to deny a world flood. I believe there is evidence of a worldwide flood all over the world. Never seen the evidence, but been told through media and books.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

Huh, it's not on me. You and others say all life did not die until after the fall. Not I.

I say you don't have any proof of it, if you would like to jump in, that's your burden.

Shifting the burden of proof is the refuge of those who are unable or unwilling to support or provide sufficient warrant justifying their claim. It can often be witnessed among Christians who confidently proclaim belief X, which has been believed and taught for as long as they can remember, but have never before had that belief questioned. There is a peculiar discomfort in coming to the realization that familiar prooftexts are not standing up under critical scrutiny.

The uncomfortable truth is that you're right: There is no biblical warrant for the belief that animals did not die prior to Adam's fall.

In Adam, all (humans) die. Again, nothing about animals and plants.

And that's because Adam was the federal head of humans only. His fall affected all those in Adam, and animals and plants were not.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

So, Adam and Eve would have died anyway, correct?

Incorrect, for they had access to the tree of life—until they didn't (Gen 3:22-24).

 

[Musician]

Are you saying you don't have faith in Gods Word?

It sounds more like you're putting words into my mouth. I'm not sure why anyone posts these things knowing it's going to create animosity. I thought we were all Christians? This is more like a political forum. I base my opinions on what I can see with my eyes, I see a round planet that's 4.5 billion years old. Anything else is a fairy tale.

 

[Carbon]

As far as I understand it, most old-earth creationists don't believe in evolution, so they're certainly not trying to shoehorn it into the Bible.

Micro evolution?

 

[Carbon]

It sounds more like you're putting words into my mouth. I'm not sure why anyone posts these things knowing it's going to create animosity. I thought we were all Christians? This is more like a political forum.

You're absolutely right. No reason we cannot discuss this civilly. If some feel challenged, they should probably step away and take a breather.

 

[CrowCross]

As far as I understand it, most old-earth creationists don't believe in evolution, so they're certainly not trying to shoehorn it into the Bible.

Then where did this population you speak of that was around when Adam was created come from?

 

[civic]

As far as I understand it, most old-earth creationists don't believe in evolution, so they're certainly not trying to shoehorn it into the Bible.

Yep

 

[Carbon]

Then where did this population you speak of that was around when Adam was created come from?

Personally, I see no evidence for that in scripture.

 

[Musician]

, they should probably step away and take a breather.

Which is what I'm doing, not that I feel challenged. More like some only see what they want to see and there's no way I can debate someone that acts like that. I'm more than likely done here.

 

[CrowCross]

It sounds more like you're putting words into my mouth. I'm not sure why anyone posts these things knowing it's going to create animosity. I thought we were all Christians? This is more like a political forum. I base my opinions on what I can see with my eyes, I see a round planet that's 4.5 billion years old. Anything else is a fairy tale.

Well, it seemed as if yu don't have faith that Jesus created the earth prior to the sun, mom and stars.

Perhaps I have you mixed up with someone else.

 

[CrowCross]

Personally, I see no evidence for that in scripture.

Neither do I.

 

[Musician]

Well, it seemed as if yu don't have faith that Jesus created the earth prior to the sun, mom and stars.

Perhaps I have you mixed up with someone else.

Who says I don't? besides you? You give Christianity a bad name, constantly judging others.

 

[CrowCross]

Who says I don't? besides you? You give Christianity a bad name, constantly judging others.

I judged no one. I'm simply presenting what your post sounded like.

 

[Arial]

It's worse than that. Animals also get horrible diseases, e.g. cancer. In other words, when Adam fell, he corrupted the whole Earth, not only humanity.

Right because everything dies of something. Plus all the violence and evil in the world. It all because of the fall.

 

[Arial]

Unless all else was already dying. In Adam, all (humans) die. Again, nothing about animals and plants.

If other life forms could die at creation, so would man. We are all made out of the same stuff and require the same stuff to live.

 

[Carbon]

Shifting the burden of proof is the refuge of those who are unable or unwilling to support or provide sufficient warrant justifying their claim.

Indeed. Not to be offensive, but, you're absolutely right.

It can often be witnessed among Christians who confidently proclaim belief X, which has been believed and taught for as long as they can remember, but have never before had that belief questioned.

Indeed

There is a peculiar discomfort in coming to the realization that familiar prooftexts are not standing up under critical scrutiny.

Yep. I have been there.

The uncomfortable truth is that you're right: There is no biblical warrant for the belief that animals did not die prior to Adam's fall.

Thanks. But If I am wrong, I want to know.

And that's because Adam was the federal head of humans only. His fall affected all those in Adam, and animals and plants were not.

That's what I believe.

 

[Carbon]

If other life forms could die at creation, so would man. We are all made out of the same stuff and require the same stuff to live.

I appreciate your reasoning, I really do. But the central figure in scripture is Jesus Christ, and the gospel is taught throughout scripture. About Him redeeming His bride. His bride does not consist of animals and plants. And I know you know that also.