Young Earth/Old Earth

[civic]

I heard it's because Adam stepped on an ant.

Lol

 

[civic]

Are you going to say Adam didn't have a clue of what God was talking about? The day you eat of this you shall surely die.

You are moving the goal posts . We are talking about the physical results of sin, fall. We can talk about spiritual after .

 

[Carbon]

Hey, I'm just trying to discuss this with other Christians. Because some cannot prove their theory they have to be insulting. Make fun of, ect....?
That's cool. It's all good.

 

[Carbon]

Just practice what you preach. When you find others believing things without scripture support, accept it.

 

[Carbon]

You are moving the goal posts . We are talking about the physical results of sin, fall. We can talk about spiritual after .

Nope, I'm moving nothing. You're just showing what happens when someone's theory breaks down.

Keep at it.

 

[civic]

Nope, I'm moving nothing. You're just showing what happens when someone's theory breaks down.

Keep at it.

We have been talking about physical death , animals and plants . There is nothing spiritual about animals and plants unless you are a pantheist.

 

[Arial]

Animals and the earth are cursed because of the fall. Where do you find scripture pointing to animals dying after the fall?

And what is the curse? Death. Which tells me that before the curse there was no death.
Do you mean Where do you find scripture that points to animals not dying until after the fall?
There certainly is no scripture saying they died before the fall. When did the first animal die? When God clothed Adam and Eve with animal skins in place of leaves. A fantastic first glimpse at what was to come when we are given Christ's robes of righteousness.
And we see the first evidence of animal sacrifices being offered to God with Abel. Life for life.

And we have concerning the future restored creation Rev 21:4 ANd God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain; for the former things are passed away.

Death is death, no matter what it is that dies. Animals of course don't go to hell for they have done nothing deserving of hell. But perhaps they are only taken from the earth and go to heaven. After all they were with God in the beginning just as we were. But then I may surmise that possibility because I dearly want my pack of thirty dogs to run to meet me when I enter through the narrow gate. There was great sorrow in losing each and every one, and the last one (probably) is still with me.

 

[civic]

And what is the curse? Death. Which tells me that before the curse there was no death.
Do you mean Where do you find scripture that points to animals not dying until after the fall?
There certainly is no scripture saying they died before the fall. When did the first animal die? When God clothed Adam and Eve with animal skins in place of leaves. A fantastic first glimpse at what was to come when we are given Christ's robes of righteousness.
And we see the first evidence of animal sacrifices being offered to God with Abel. Life for life.

And we have concerning the future restored creation Rev 21:4 ANd God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain; for the former things are passed away.

Death is death, no matter what it is that dies. Animals of course don't go to hell for they have done nothing deserving of hell. But perhaps they are only taken from the earth and go to heaven. After all they were with God in the beginning just as we were. But then I may surmise that possibility because I dearly want my pack of thirty dogs to run to meet me when I enter through the narrow gate. There was great sorrow in losing each and every one, and the last one (probably) is still with me.

Amen

 

[Carbon]

The simple fact of the matter, going by scripture, God created time, which starts the aging process. God said, be fruitful and multiply to Adam and Eve, which we can safely assume, aging again.

Scripture teaches man was sinless before the fall but must have aged. Christ was born sinless and holy, yet he aged. Aging is not a bad thing. If things didn't age, why did God have him work the ground? The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it. Gen 2:15.

It amazes me people are so afraid to have their beliefs challenged. It's like they get scared and panic. If this topic defends anyone, please, don't get involved.

As I voted, I'm undecided. I still am, but I lean toward an OE. If I am wrong, I don't think ill go to hell for it.

 

[civic]

The simple fact of the matter, going by scripture, God created time, which starts the aging process. God said, be fruitful and multiply to Adam and Eve, which we can safely assume, aging again.

Scripture teaches man was sinless before the fall but must have aged. Christ was born sinless and holy, yet he aged. Aging is not a bad thing. If things didn't age, why did God have him work the ground? The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it. Gen 2:15.

It amazes me people are so afraid to have their beliefs challenged. It's like they get scared and panic. If this topic defends anyone, please, don't get involved.

As I voted, I'm undecided. I still am, but I lean toward an OE. If I am wrong, I don't think ill go to hell for it.

Are you trying to associate age with death ?

 

[Carbon]

And what is the curse? Death. Which tells me that before the curse there was no death.

No human death. It's not about animal.

Do you mean Where do you find scripture that points to animals not dying until after the fall?
There certainly is no scripture saying they died before the fall. When did the first animal die? When God clothed Adam and Eve with animal skins in place of leaves. A fantastic first glimpse at what was to come when we are given Christ's robes of righteousness.

Does it say in that passage that it was the first animal?
If not, will you base that on just one verse that it is not even implied?

And we see the first evidence of animal sacrifices being offered to God with Abel. Life for life.

Nothing to do with the subject.

And we have concerning the future restored creation Rev 21:4 ANd God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain; for the former things are passed away.

Okay. So, what are you saying?

Death is death, no matter what it is that dies. Animals of course don't go to hell for they have done nothing deserving of hell. But perhaps they are only taken from the earth and go to heaven. After all they were with God in the beginning just as we were. But then I may surmise that possibility because I dearly want my pack of thirty dogs to run to meet me when I enter through the narrow gate. There was great sorrow in losing each and every one, and the last one (probably) is still with me.

Emotionalism.

But thanks

 

[Carbon]

Are you trying to associate age with death ?

All depends. You may eventually shrivel up into a prune I suppose.

Do you believe people eventually die of an old age complication?

 

[Arial]

Why do animals die?

Perhaps the answer (and I know you are not asking because you don't know, that it is a part of the curse) finds its roots in the question What if they didn't die? What if man didn't die considering his wickedness? What if only man died? Well the plant and animal life would overtake us.

Before the fall conditions had to be in place that made everlasting life possible. Those conditions had to be changed so that we would die. And when those conditions changed it caused everything else to die also.

 

[CrowCross]

Barry Setterfield simply documented our ability to measure the speed of light as our methods improved in time. He never demonstrated that the speed of light changed.

______
.

Considering we know the BB didn't happen...and the bible is true...

There are many things that are not in the Bible that man was intended to find out on his own. Which is why we were given brains that can learn, design, build and apply. We're on a collision course with the Andromeda Galaxy which is 2.5 million light years from Earth. They expect the collision to happen in 4 Billion years. You can look almost straight up and see it with a cheap telescope or good binoculars, and the light you see left it 2.5 million years ago.
That's science in it's most simple form, and any Astrophysicist or Astronomer can confirm this. God gave them a gift and some day their gifts will be applied in a way that will move mankind from this dying planet to a new home somewhere out there. Hopefully they'll take better care of the next Earth.

But, there are things in the bible that disprove certain claims presented by the atheist and evolutionist.

Yes, Jesus spread out the universe....but He didn't start with the BB....as biblically demonstrated by the earth pre-existing the sun, moon and stars.

 

[civic]

All depends. You may eventually shrivel up into a prune I suppose.

Do you believe people eventually die of an old age complication?

Not prior to sin .

 

[civic]

I think I'll bow out now before anyone gets too heated.

Me too I don’t want to upset another’s faith

 

[Arial]

No human death. It's not about animal.

People don't die in a vacuum. If they were created to not die, something had to change in their environment so that they would. The same change would cause everything to die.

Does it say in that passage that it was the first animal?
If not, will you base that on just one verse that it is not even implied?

I have similar types of questions posed to me from unitarians concerning the Trinity.
It is the first record of death we have and God had to cause that death----first causes and all.

Okay. So, what are you saying?

That if the future restored creation has no death it is reasonable to assume that the first didn't either. Is either the first or the restored something impossible for God?

Emotionalism.

Pardon me all to heck for having emotions.

 

[Carbon]

People don't die in a vacuum. If they were created to not die, something had to change in their environment so that they would. The same change would cause everything to die.

Unless all else was already dying. In Adam, all (humans) die. Again, nothing about animals and plants.

 

[Carbon]

Pardon me all to heck for having emotions.

Okay.

 

[Arial]

All depends. You may eventually shrivel up into a prune I suppose.

Do you believe people eventually die of an old age complication?

What time is it? Let me check.

Oh! It is after the fall.