Young Earth/Old Earth

[Carbon]

Me too I don’t want to upset another’s faith

Don't worry brother your not. I'm not that easy.

 

[Carbon]

Prob by ruining nature (at least making it more difficult to manage), there is the echo of the consequence of sin without immediately overwhelming people. Thus we end up with some 70 years, but the forces of a groaning earth catch up to us.

I have a hard time believing God created the world to look old. I just can't imagine God scattering dinosaur bones around even though they never existed. Or ancient cities, deposits of coal, oil, ect...

Of course, God can do as He wills. But He is a God of order. Not confusion.

 

[civic]

I have a hard time believing God created the world to look old. I just can't imagine God scattering dinosaur bones around even though they never existed. Or ancient cities, deposits of coal, oil, ect...

Of course, God can do as He wills. But He is a God of order. Not confusion.

The flood caused the fossil record .

 

[Musician]

Yes, Jesus spread out the universe....but He didn't start with the BB....as biblically demonstrated by the earth pre-existing the sun, moon and stars.

Nothing has been demonstrated, it's faith based.

 

[Carbon]

Are you going to say Adam didn't have a clue of what God was talking about? The day you eat of this you shall surely die.

It seems to me before God placed Adam in the garden, while he was outside of it, he must have experienced death. Or God would be saying something to Adam that was incomprehensible.
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Gen 2:17.

There is nothing in Genesis where Adam asks God what death was.
So, it's obvious, he must have known about it.

 

[Carbon]

Why was death bad, as far as age? I would think Adam knew what death was, God told him to not eat of the tree or he will surely die. What good would that have done if Adam didn't know what death was?

Scripture also says, And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, Heb 9:27.
Did God change His mind after the fall? Since man blew it and sinned. Now I will appoint (decree) him to die?
I don't think so, I cannot accept that. There are no plan B's with God. God is immutable.
I have no issue with death before the fall.

Doesn't scripture teach God alone is immortal?
who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen. 1 Tim 6:16.


I thought this subject would be interesting. I was hoping to learn from it. However, because some are afraid to be challenged, it's aint happening.

 

[David1701]

I heard it's because Adam stepped on an ant.

No; try again. In any case, I meant animals with a soul. I'm not sure if ants have a soul.

 

[Carbon]

Why do animals die?

It seems they were created to eventually die. For various reasons.

 

[David1701]

Perhaps the answer (and I know you are not asking because you don't know, that it is a part of the curse) finds its roots in the question What if they didn't die? What if man didn't die considering his wickedness? What if only man died? Well the plant and animal life would overtake us.

Before the fall conditions had to be in place that made everlasting life possible. Those conditions had to be changed so that we would die. And when those conditions changed it caused everything else to die also.

It's worse than that. Animals also get horrible diseases, e.g. cancer. In other words, when Adam fell, he corrupted the whole Earth, not only humanity.

 

[David1701]

It seems they were created to eventually die. For various reasons.

Death is the result of disease (not a part of the original creation), predation (not part of the original creation), copying errors when their cells die and are replaced (ageing - not part of the original creation, which was "very good"), etc.

Nothing was originally created to die. Death is the result of sin.

 

[Carbon]

Death is the result of disease (not a part of the original creation), predation (not part of the original creation), copying errors when their cells die and are replaced (ageing - not part of the original creation, which was "very good"), etc.

Nothing was originally created to die. Death is the result of sin.

Death is not only the result of disease. When people age, eventually they could die from an age-related issue. Some organ shutting sown, whatever.

If it wasn't part of the original creation how did Adam know what death was?

Because animals and plants die, does not ruin a perfect creation.


God is the Judge of what is good and evil. Not us.

 

[CrowCross]

Nothing has been demonstrated, it's faith based.

Are you saying you don't have faith in Gods Word?

 

[David1701]

Death is not only the result of disease. When people age, eventually they could die from an age-related issue. Some organ shutting sown, whatever.

I specifically covered ageing, in my post. Ageing is the consequence of copying errors, when our cells wear out and are replaced. God made everything "very good"; he did not give us a fatally flawed cell replacement mechanism! Ageing is a consequence of Adam's sin.

 

[CrowCross]

If it wasn't part of the original creation how did Adam know what death was?

Because animals and plants die, does not ruin a perfect creation.

Just curious...how long do you think it was between creation and the fall?

 

[Carbon]

I specifically covered ageing, in my post. Ageing is the consequence of copying errors, when our cells die and are replaced. God made everything "very good"; he did not give us a fatally flawed cell replacement mechanism! Ageing is a consequence of Adam's sin.

Because you tag them as fatally flawed, does not make it so. If ageing was part of God's plan, then ageing is good. The Fall was part of God's plan, or it wouldn't have happened, so the Fall will glorify God. But that's for a different discussion.

The best way to prove something about God is through His word while keeping in mind Deut 29:29 “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.

 

[Carbon]

Just curious...how long do you think it was between creation and the fall?

I haven't the slightest.
But if you read through my posts, you'll see I believe it's possible that it could have been a long time between the creation days. Which I do not believe interferers with God's word.

 

[Carbon]

Just curious...how long do you think it was between creation and the fall?

Also, if I see one thing where an OEC denies any part of God's word, I'll drop it in an instant.

 

[Sparrow]

It was not Satans but Adams sin that was the curse that fell upon all creation . So there was no death , decay , corruption or fossils prior to adams fall.

Yes, sin brought the curse of death to all created flesh bodies with souls In this earth age. Just consider what God’s wrath and Satan’s rebellion may have caused to happen in the universe in an age before this one. I believe the first creation of the earth was beautiful and perfect, as is everything God created.

In Job 38, God speaks…

4 “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.
5 Who determined its measurements?
Surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 To what were its foundations fastened?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Who we’re these “sons [plural] of God? What time frame was God describing?

The past is often a good predictor of the future. Could it be possible that the future can tell us something about what happened in the past?

Jeremiah 10:10….

But the Lord is the true God;
He is the living God and the everlasting King.
At His wrath the earth will tremble,
And the nations will not be able to endure His indignation.

Job 9:4-6…

4 God is wise in heart and mighty in strength.
Who has hardened himself against Him and prospered?
5 He removes the mountains, and they do not know
When He overturns them in His anger;
6 He shakes the earth out of its place,
And its pillars tremble;

Joel 2:10-11…

10 The earth quakes before them,
The heavens tremble;
The sun and moon grow dark,
And the stars diminish their brightness.
11 The Lord gives voice before His army,
For His camp is very great;
For strong is the One who executes His word.
For the day of the Lord is great and very terrible;
Who can endure it?

Ezekiel 28:18-19…

18 “You defiled your sanctuaries
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
In the sight of all who saw you.
19 All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
You have become a horror,
And shall be no more forever.” ’ ”

 

[Carbon]

Yes, sin brought the curse of death to all created flesh bodies with souls In this earth age. Just consider what God’s wrath and Satan’s rebellion may have caused to happen in the universe in an age before this one.

That's interesting but part of God's secret council.

I believe the first creation of the earth was beautiful and perfect, as is everything God created.

Extra-biblical.

 

[CrowCross]

I haven't the slightest.
But if you read through my posts, you'll see I believe it's possible that it could have been a long time between the creation days. Which I do not believe interferers with God's word.

I also don't know the time between creation and the fall. I was just curious to see if you had anymore input.