Young Earth/Old Earth

[EarlyActs]

The global Flood (and its aftermath) explains the fossils.

There was no "age" before Adam - the first man. There was no death before Adam sinned. These are facts, not speculation.

The only thing is that 'tohu wa-bohu' (formless and void) does imply things happened before.

 

[David1701]

Maybe with some but not me. I absolutely do not believe in evolution yet I do believe it is very possible and likely there was some extended period of time between verse 1 and 2.

This sounds like the so-called "Gap Theory", which falls at the first hurdle, because the Bible says that Adam's sin is the reason why sin and death entered the world.

 

[David1701]

The only thing is that 'tohu wa-bohu' (formless and void) does imply things happened before.

No, it doesn't. The Earth was unformed and unfilled: i.e. in a very early stage of creation, before God had finished making seas, land masses, etc.; and before he had put any living creatures on the Earth.

 

[EarlyActs]

No, it doesn't. The Earth was unformed and unfilled: i.e. in a very early stage of creation, before God had finished making seas, land masses, etc.; and before he had put any living creatures on the Earth.

See Jer 4:23. It is the only other place where tohu wa-bohu is used. It means something was punished, destroyed. We need to think supernaturally here--2 Pet 3 and Jude both refer to past, dark 'prisons' of rebellious beings.

 

[EarlyActs]

This sounds like the so-called "Gap Theory", which falls at the first hurdle, because the Bible says that Adam's sin is the reason why sin and death entered the world.

But that would be human sin and death. Other beings are out there. "The universe is full, not empty"-- Dr. Goodrick, Greek, Multnomah.

 

[Carbon]

This sounds like the so-called "Gap Theory", which falls at the first hurdle, because the Bible says that Adam's sin is the reason why sin and death entered the world.

12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Romans 5.

I do not understand why so many claim it was for animals and plant life also. If anyone is trying to prove a YE with scripture on this point? I think it's a failure. Animals and plants are not sinners, they were not and won't be. It's not about them. Are they affected by it? Yes. It's not the animal's fault, it's ours. I am not sure what really changed for them. I'm sure once someone comes up with something, I'll say, oh yea, that's right. I do know because of the fall we hunt and kill them.

 

[EarlyActs]

12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Romans 5.

I do not understand why so many claim it was for animals and plant life also. If anyone is trying to prove a YE with scripture on this point? I think it's a failure. Animals and plants are not sinners, they were not and won't be. It's not about them. Are they affected by it? Yes. It's not the animal's fault, it's ours. I am not sure what really changed for them. I'm sure once someone comes up with something, I'll say, oh yea, that's right. I do know because of the fall we hunt and kill them.

Prob by ruining nature (at least making it more difficult to manage), there is the echo of the consequence of sin without immediately overwhelming people. Thus we end up with some 70 years, but the forces of a groaning earth catch up to us.

 

[civic]

Yes, death and decay entered this age through sin. In my old-earth view, there was another age before this one in which Satan sinned and rebelled against God. Sin always gives birth to death, decay, and chaos. I agree to that universal principle. But there was no grace applied to Satan. He was condemned at the time of His rebellion. He was already condemned when he lied and tempted Eve. But God did apply grace to His newly created people—the ones through whom a Savior would come, and later to others who would believe—because He SO loves us! And by His grace we can escape the death, decay, and chaos Satan causes.

It was not Satans but Adams sin that was the curse that fell upon all creation . So there was no death , decay , corruption or fossils prior to adams fall.

 

[Carbon]

It was not Satans but Adams sin that was the curse that fell upon all creation . So there was no death , decay , corruption or fossils prior to adams fall.

Where is the connection between Adam's sin and animals?

We know God created the garden of Edin. But what was it like outside the garden? It seems to me perfection without sin and death was limited to the garden.

Before Adam sinned, was everything immortal?

 

[civic]

Where is the connection between Adam's sin and animals?

We know God created the garden of Edin. But what was it like outside the garden? It seems to me perfection without sin and death was limited to the garden.

Paul says the whole of creation groans from the curse of sin caused by Adam . That includes the animals. see Romans 8:19–23; cf. Genesis 1:29–30; 9:1–4; Psalm 104:19–28

 

[Carbon]

Paul says the whole of creation groans from the curse of sin caused by Adam . That includes the animals.

So, you can't answer the questions? And, Before Adam sinned, was everything immortal?

 

[Carbon]

So, you can't answer the questions? And, Before Adam sinned, was everything immortal?

Bump @civic

 

[civic]

So, you can't answer the questions? And, Before Adam sinned, was everything immortal?

Yes everything that has life with a brain and can think. Plants don’t think and have brains like animals . Unlike plants animals are self conscious.

 

[Carbon]

Yes everything that has life with a brain and can think.

So only humans were immortal before the fall?

Plants don’t think and have brains like animals .

Animals don't think? Not at all? If you think so, I disagree

 

[civic]

So only humans were immortal before the fall?


Animals don't think? Not at all? If you think so, I disagree

Many apes, monkeys , killer whales are smarter than many people . There are many intelligent predators .

 

[Carbon]

12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Romans 5:12-13.

It says death spread to all men nothing about animals or plants here. I don't think you can find anything that teaches otherwise. Animals died before the fall, their is nothing to say they didn't, and what happened outside the garden? Do animals suffer because of the fall? I believe so.

 

[Carbon]

Many apes, monkeys , killer whales are smarter than many people . There are many intelligent predators .

I agree.

 

[Carbon]

I would like someone to prove there was no animal death before the fall. I personally don't believe there is any scripture support.

 

[civic]

I would like someone to prove there was no animal death before the fall. I personally don't believe there is any scripture support.

Death was a result of Adams sin which cursed not only man but also the ground , plants and animals. The entire world / creation was changed from the curse of sin.

 

[Carbon]

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.1 Cor 15:22

Where are animals mentioned here?
I'm quite sure if this topic wasn't being discussed no one would even think about animals in this verse. The natural thought is humans.

And the same is true of this: 12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Romans 5:12-13.