Yahweh 301,302 or Trinity 301,302

[CherubRam]

Colossians 2:9
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.

1. Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains: the nature or state of being God (12.13, theotēs, page 140, J. P. Louw and Eugene Nida).
2. Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: the state of being God (theotēs, page 288).

The Disciples of Christ spoke Hebrew. They did not use Greek or English. Excluding the writings of Paul, they were saying (elohiym,) god-s of "The Living One."

Yahwah's name was in the original New Testament scriptures

After killing Hebrew Christians, the Jews would take the New testament scripture written in Hebrew, and carefully cut the name of God out. Then they would place the divine name in a safe place to keep. Following that, they then would burn the remainder of the scrolls in a fire. Rabbi Yose who lived during the second century AD states that, "One cuts out the reference to the Divine Name which are in them [the New Testament writings] and stores them away, and the rest burns." One of his characteristic sayings is, "He who proclaimed the coming of the Messiah,[John] and he who hated scholars [Yahshua] and his disciples; and that false prophet and those slanderers, will have no part in the future world."

According to Wilhelm Bacher this was directed against the Hebrew Christians. And so it is an established fact then, that the disciples of Christ did in fact write the Holy Name of God into the original New Testament.

John 17:11
I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.

That name is Yah, as in Yahwah and Yahshua.

Hebrews 2:12
He says, “I will declare your name to my brothers; in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises.”

Where do you see the name Yahwah in the New Testament?

Yahwah's name was in the original New Testament scriptures.

 

[CherubRam]

Methinks the pot is calling the kettle black.

The Trinity has been in the NT since its beginning:

1) We have three distinct persons (divine agents), Father, Son and Holy Spirit,
presented in the work of salvation:

a)--at its beginning (Luke 1:35),
-----at the inauguration of Jesus' public ministry (Matthew 3:16-17) and
-----in the work of atonement (Hebrews 9:14),

b) the Holy Spirit completing the work (salvation) of the Father through the Son
(Acts 2:38-39; Romans 8:26; 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 1:3-14, Ephesians 2:13-22; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:2),

c) the only way to enter the kingdom of the Father (salvation) is through faith in the Son and regeneration by the Holy Spirit (John 3:1-15).

2) And Jesus shows the personhoods of three distinct divine agents:

The Son is sent by the Father, in the Father's name (John 5:23, 36, 43).
The Spirit is sent by the Father in the Son's name (John 14:26).
The Spirit is subject to the Son as well as to the Father, for the Spirit is sent by the Son as well as the Father (John 15:26, 16:7, 14:26).

One doesn't send oneself, one sends another who is distinct from oneself.

The Trinity--one God in three distinct divine persons--is presented in NT teaching from the beginning.

You spend a great deal of energy on being obstinate.

 

[Eleanor]

You spend a great deal of energy on being obstinate.

Non-responsive to my Biblical demonstration of post #80.

 

[Fred]

The Disciples of Christ spoke Hebrew. They did not use Greek or English.

The NT was originally written in Greek.

 

[Mr GLee]

Trevor, You are correct in that one quote~but if your read all of what I posted I made it very clear the Word of John 1:1 is the first, second and third person of the Godhead~This ONE God is clearly manifest to us as three~ "only" according to the work of redemption for God's elect

One God who in the second person is revealed by the prophets. Apostles as prophets are sent out with the will of another, the unseen voice of many waters.

The word prophet must be defined .before we can study . . .many different ideas in the world as to its meaning and use in the bible .

In Mathew 16 we can see the father giving his words to his prophet the Son of man Jesus who in turn empowered by the father declared it .The father rebuked the Satan father of lies In effect saying get behind me walk by faith not by sight after dying mankind the devil disappeared . . . prophecy living words of the Spirit

 

[CherubRam]

The NT was originally written in Greek.

Paul wrote in Greek.

Yahwah's name was in the original New Testament scriptures

After killing Hebrew Christians, the Jews would take the New testament scripture written in Hebrew, and carefully cut the name of God out. Then they would place the divine name in a safe place to keep. Following that, they then would burn the remainder of the scrolls in a fire. Rabbi Yose who lived during the second century AD states that, "One cuts out the reference to the Divine Name which are in them [the New Testament writings] and stores them away, and the rest burns." One of his characteristic sayings is, "He who proclaimed the coming of the Messiah,[John] and he who hated scholars [Yahshua] and his disciples; and that false prophet and those slanderers, will have no part in the future world."

According to Wilhelm Bacher this was directed against the Hebrew Christians. And so it is an established fact then, that the disciples of Christ did in fact write the Holy Name of God into the original New Testament.

John 17:11
I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one.
Yah : Yahwah and Yahshua.
Hebrews 2:12
He says, “I will declare your name to my brothers; in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises.”

Where do you see the name Yahwah in the New Testament?


Yahwah's name was in the original New Testament scriptures

 

[Red Baker]

Yahwah's name was in the original New Testament scriptures

And you know that to be, because you were there.....correct? That is a very unwise statement.

No man living much past 100 A. D. ever saw the originals, no man! By faith, the very elect trust God that he by his power and wisdom preserved the holy scriptures for us~according to his promise in such scriptures as Psalms 12, etc.

Whatever happened to the very original letters, no one knows and truly no saint cares. Those are the secret acts of God that we as his children know he doeth all things in a timely manner, and perfectly and wisely and with ease.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Forum Members,

I include Forum Members who are contributing to this thread and those also who may read this thread. I hope to reset this thread back to the original intention. The purpose of this thread was to compare the Trinity teachings mainly presented so far by @Red Baker and @Eleanor. I decided to select one reference from Red Baker's list 1 John 5:7 and another reference from Eleanor's list John 10:30-33 and I also decided to speak about 1 Corinthians 8:6 and Psalm 110:1. I could comment on the progress or lack of progress of these four references, but I will allow everyone to assess this for themself (if you can find these among the other numerous off-topic posts). These four references are still open for any additional worthwhile relevant contribution, by the present contributors or by new contributors.

I started a new reference John 1:1,14 in my posts 369 and #70 taken from Eleanor's list. So could I ask that we now limit this thread to comments on John 1:1,14, or additional comments on the four other references.

My impression is that John 1:1 and 1:14 are most probably the most well known and popular verses used in support of the Trinity and the reality is that these verses either prove the Trinity or not. I gave some background to my understanding in Post #70. My impression is that most Trinitarians in their thinking simply replace "The Word" with some equivalent of Jesus or God the Son. Rarely would they consider that there is any real other meaning behind the title "The Word". In order to examine this I found it interesting how that the following scholars define the word "Logos". The following are from my notes listening to a recent talk and I would need to double check these, but these may be sufficient for my purposes to highlight the fact that there is more meaning in these references than a simple syllogism replacing "The Word" with "Jesus":

"Logos" = "the outward expression of the inward thought" Ethelbert Bullinger
"Logos" = "the expression of thought, a conception or idea" WE Vine
"Logos" = "the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating" Thayer

I also am interested in the fact that the word "logos" also appears in the following reference:
John 17:6–8 (KJV): 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word (S#3056 logos). 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words (S#4487 rhema) which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[CherubRam]

And you know that to be, because you were there.....correct? That is a very unwise statement.

No man living much past 100 A. D. ever saw the originals, no man! By faith, the very elect trust God that he by his power and wisdom preserved the holy scriptures for us~according to his promise in such scriptures as Psalms 12, etc.

Whatever happened to the very original letters, no one knows and truly no saint cares. Those are the secret acts of God that we as his children know he doeth all things in a timely manner, and perfectly and wisely and with ease.

It is a historical record.
I suspect you guys have a learning disability. Have a nice day.

 

[Fred]

Paul wrote in Greek.

Acts 2:21 (spoken by Peter and recorded by Luke) is an exact quote from Joel 2:32 (3:5 in the LXX)
καὶ ἔσται πᾶς ὃς ἂν ἐπικαλέσηται τὸ ὄνομα κυρίου σωθήσεται

 

[CherubRam]

Acts 2:21 is an exact quote from Joel 2:32 (3:5 in the LXX)
καὶ ἔσται πᾶς ὃς ἂν ἐπικαλέσηται τὸ ὄνομα κυρίου σωθήσεται

Mentally impaired people should not teach what the bible says.

Joel 2
32 And everyone who calls
on the name of (the Lord / Yahwah) will be saved;
for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
there will be deliverance,
as (the Lord / Yahwah) has said,
even among the survivors
whom (the Lord / Yahwah) calls.

Acts 2
21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.

(The Lord) is Yahwah in Joel.

Yahwah is the Father.

 

[Fred]

Acts 2
21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.

(The Lord) is Yahwah in Joel.

Peter applies YHWH ('kyrios' in Greek) from Joel 2:32 (3:5 in the LXX) in reference to Jesus being the Lord in Acts 2:21.
Acts 2:21
And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Acts 2:38
Peter said to them, Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.

 

[CherubRam]

Peter applies YHWH ('kyrios' in Greek) from Joel 2:32 (3:5 in the LXX) in reference to Jesus being the Lord in Acts 2:21.
Acts 2:21
And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Acts 2:38
Peter said to them, Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.

The word (Lord) is a common title, both Yahwah and Yahshua are called Lord. Christ instructed us to call upon Yahwah for our salvation whom is the Holy Spirit.

Yahshua is our deliverer, and Yahwah is our saviour.

Rev 7:10- “Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb!”

No Savior but Yahwah our God
In some places in the New Testament it says that Yahshua is the Savior, but all the rest of the bible says that Yahwah is the Savior; and in Isaiah and Hosea no other Savior but Yahwah.
Again, more Trinitarian tampering with the scriptures.



Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am (the Lord / Yahwah), and apart from me there is no savior.

Hosea 13:4
“But I have been (the Lord / Yahwah) your (God / Elohiym) ever since you came out of Egypt. You shall acknowledge no (God / Elohiym) but me, no Savior except me.

 

[Fred]

The word (Lord) is a common title, both Yahwah and Yahshua are called Lord.

Next time try not to dodge the evidence I posted that "Lord" in Acts 2:21 refers to Jesus.

 

[Eleanor]

Greetings Forum Members,
I include Forum Members who are contributing to this thread and those also who may read this thread. I hope to reset this thread back to the original intention. The purpose of this thread was to compare the Trinity teachings mainly presented so far by @Red Baker and @Eleanor. I decided to select one reference from Red Baker's list 1 John 5:7 and another reference from Eleanor's list John 10:30-33 and I also decided to speak about 1 Corinthians 8:6 and Psalm 110:1. I could comment on the progress or lack of progress of these four references, but I will allow everyone to assess this for themself (if you can find these among the other numerous off-topic posts). These four references are still open for any additional worthwhile relevant contribution, by the present contributors or by new contributors.

I started a new reference John 1:1,14 in my posts 369 and #70 taken from Eleanor's list. So could I ask that we now limit this thread to comments on John 1:1,14, or additional comments on the four other references.

My impression is that John 1:1 and 1:14 are most probably the most well known and popular verses used in support of the Trinity and the reality is that these verses either prove the Trinity or not. I gave some background to my understanding in Post #70. My impression is that most Trinitarians in their thinking simply replace "The Word" with some equivalent of Jesus or God the Son. Rarely would they consider that there is any real other meaning behind the title "The Word". In order to examine this I found it interesting how that the following scholars define the word "Logos". The following are from my notes listening to a recent talk and I would need to double check these, but these may be sufficient for my purposes to highlight the fact that there is more meaning in these references than a simple syllogism replacing "The Word" with "Jesus":

"Logos" = "the outward expression of the inward thought" Ethelbert Bullinger
"Logos" = "the expression of thought, a conception or idea" WE Vine
"Logos" = "the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating" Thayer

I also am interested in the fact that the word "logos" also appears in the following reference:
John 17:6–8 (KJV): 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word (S#3056 logos). 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words (S#4487 rhema) which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Kind regards
Trevor

1) Regarding Jn 1:1, 14, let's begin with logos, which has more than one usage.
Logos in Greek philosophy was the First Cause, the great Intelligence and Reason behind the universe.

John opens his gospel to his Greek audience with the astounding claim that the recently despised and crucified man, Jesus of Nazareth, is the eternal logos, source of all wisdom and power, who became flesh in order to reveal God to us.

God the Son, the logos (Jn 1:1), who proceeds from within the Father (Jn 8:42, 16:27, 28, 17:8), as does the Holy Spirit (Jn 15:26),
became flesh in Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God (i.e., sired in the flesh by God himself).

2) And then in support of my assertion regarding Jesus is God in Jn 10:30-33, I submit the following, with the reminder:
Jesus said that whoever rejects the words of his apostles is rejecting Jesus' words (Lk 10:16).

Mt 3:3 and Lk 1:67-68, 76 regarding Isa 40:3 where Matthew and Luke say that Jesus is the YHWH of whom the voice calling in the wilderness (John the Baptist) prepared the way.

Ro 10:9, 13 regarding Joel 2:32 where Paul teaches Jesus is the YHWH of Joel's prophecy that "everyone who calls on the name of YHWH will be saved."

Heb 1:6 regarding Dt 32:43 where Paul quotes Moses' song referring to YHWH and says it applies to Jesus.

Rev 1:12-18 regarding Isa 44:6, 48:12 where John says the man in the vision is Jesus (1:18, 2:8) who identifies himself as the First and the Last which is YHWH identification of himself.

Rev 21:6, 22:12-13 regarding Rev 1:8 where John says the man in the vision (Jesus) identifies himself as the Alpha and Omega of Rev 1:8, which is YHWH.

Rev 21:5-7 regarding Rev 20:11-13 where John says Jesus, the one on the throne (Rev 20:11-13 with Jn 5:22, 27, 9:39), is God (Rev 21:7).

Jn 1:3, Col 1:16-17, Heb 1:2b, 10 where John and Paul say the YHWH who created all things (Ge 1:1, Is 44:24, Jer 10:16) is Jesus.

So why are Jesus' words above spoken through his apostles being rejected?

 

[CherubRam]

Next time try not to dodge the evidence I posted that "Lord" in Acts 2:21 refers to Jesus.

The One or Only.

NIV
John 8:41
You are doing the works of your own father.” “We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

The last sentence actually reads: The one Father we have is (The Only / TON) Divine Eternal.

(TON THEON) “The Only Divine Eternal.”

Many places in the bible the Greek word TON is not translated.


Originally I found this, but it has disappeared and is no longer available.

Greek word TON and THEON.

From the Scripture4All program. Link: http://www.scripture4all.org/
The Greek word "TON" is translated 1583 times as "the;" And 18 times as "the -one." It is used before nouns to mean a {certain-one-person-s,} or place, or thing. However, different translations of Greek do not always agree. That is the reason for my interpretation of John 1:1 as "The Only Divine Eternal."

John 1:1
Greek:
en arche eimi ho logos kai ho logos eimi pros ton theon kai theos eimi ho logos

Interlinear:
en (in) arche (beginning) eimi (was) ho (the) logos (word) kai (and) ho (the) logos (word) eimi (was) pos (toward or with) ton (TON is a special definite article "the" meaning the one or only, it appears as TON instead of O in the Greek) theon (Divine Eternal) kai (and) theos (divine) eimi (was) ho (the) logos (word)

In English we have:
In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with (The Only) Divine Eternal, and divine was the Word.

Why do translators drop off the definite article TON (the one or the only) before Divine Eternal?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Eleanor,

Regarding Jn 1:1, 14, let's begin with logos, which has more than one usage.
Logos in Greek philosophy was the First Cause, the great Intelligence and Reason behind the universe. John opens his gospel to his Greek audience with the astounding claim that the recently despised and crucified man, Jesus of Nazareth, is the eternal logos, source of all wisdom and power, who became flesh in order to reveal God to us.

Even though I give no importance to Greek philosophy, your definition is reasonably close to what I have been stating about the personification of the Word and Wisdom. It does not speak about a Being, God the Son. The Apostle John had been instructed by the greatest Teacher that has ever lived, and he did not need to be educated in Greek Philosophy. Much of the NT is based upon the OT, not Greek Philosophy which was used to corrupt the teaching of the NT. Paul for one speaks about the fact that Greek Philosophy did not understand Jesus Christ and him crucified.

God the Son, the logos (Jn 1:1), who proceeds from within the Father (Jn 8:42, 16:27, 28, 17:8), as does the Holy Spirit (Jn 15:26),
became flesh in Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God (i.e., sired in the flesh by God himself).

It is interesting how you start with "God the Son" and then end up with an opposing concept "the Son of God". Also I have encountered a range of "Trinitarian" opinions as to what "the Son of God" actually represents, and possibly you have come one step closer than those who claim that Jesus is begotten from eternity John 1:14

And then in support of my assertion regarding Jesus is God in Jn 10:30-33, I submit the following, with the reminder:
Jesus said that whoever rejects the words of his apostles is rejecting Jesus' words (Lk 10:16).

What a surprise - your list again. I wonder if this is your own personal list, based upon considering all the references or a copy and paste from some source. There is a problem with such a list. It almost assumes that those who disagree with you and your conclusions, that they ignore or even reject the verses that you quote. Nothing is further from the truth. I accept the Scriptures, I accept the words of Jesus and the Apostles.

My aim in this thread is to consider one Scripture at a time, and I have nominated 1 John 5:7, John 10:30-33, 1 Corinthians 8:6 and Psalm 110:1. I could review and summarise our respective answers on John 10:30-33, and I am confident that I covered this subject adequately and your response was far from being convincing or correct. You ended up siding with the false accusation by the Jews and ignoring the comprehensive answer by Jesus. As far as 1 John 5:7 is concerned, it appears that the main reason why @Red Baker endorses this verse is because of his KJVO position. There has been no real response to 1 Corinthians 8:6 and Psalm 110:1.

Many years ago I encountered the word "whittle" and to some extent it was applied to my work. I spent about 24 years on a particular major task, made up of many minor tasks and it took the 24 years to complete. I compare the task before me in this thread as similar, taking one small reference at a time, and considering this carefully and then moving on to the next Scripture.

I was interested in looking up the various definitions of "whittle", and I like the portion that I have underlined in bold, "metaphorically".
Whittle definition from ChatGPT
Whittle generally refers to the act of carving or shaping a piece of wood by gradually paring or cutting pieces away with a knife. It can also be used metaphorically to refer to the process of gradually reducing, eliminating, or shaping something.

Britannica Dictionary definition of WHITTLE
to cut or shape (a piece of wood) by cutting small pieces from it
He was sitting on the porch, whittling a stick.

to make or shape (something) from a piece of wood by cutting small pieces from it
She whittled a walking stick from a maple tree branch.

whittle away [phrasal verb]
whittle (something) away or whittle away (something)
to reduce or get rid of (something) slowly
I'm still trying to whittle away a few more pounds.

whittle down [phrasal verb]
whittle (something) down or whittle down (something)
to gradually make (something) smaller by removing parts
We whittled the list down to four people.

Whittle definition in Collins English Dictionary
transitive verb
1. to cut, trim, or shape (a stick, piece of wood, etc.) by carving off bits with a knife

2. to form by whittling
to whittle a figure

3. to cut off (a bit)

4. (usually fol. by down, away, etc.)
to reduce the amount of, as if by whittling; pare down; take away by degrees
to whittle down the company's overhead
to whittle away one's inheritance

My aim is to gradually build my list and explanations of supporting Scriptures and to explain where you misuse Scripture and make erroneous claims.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Fred]

The One or Only.

NIV
John 8:41
You are doing the works of your own father.” “We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

The last sentence actually reads: The one Father we have is (The Only / TON) Divine Eternal.

(TON THEON) “The Only Divine Eternal.”

Many places in the bible the Greek word TON is not translated.


Originally I found this, but it has disappeared and is no longer available.

Greek word TON and THEON.

From the Scripture4All program. Link: http://www.scripture4all.org/
The Greek word "TON" is translated 1583 times as "the;" And 18 times as "the -one." It is used before nouns to mean a {certain-one-person-s,} or place, or thing. However, different translations of Greek do not always agree. That is the reason for my interpretation of John 1:1 as "The Only Divine Eternal."

John 1:1
Greek:
en arche eimi ho logos kai ho logos eimi pros ton theon kai theos eimi ho logos

Interlinear:
en (in) arche (beginning) eimi (was) ho (the) logos (word) kai (and) ho (the) logos (word) eimi (was) pos (toward or with) ton (TON is a special definite article "the" meaning the one or only, it appears as TON instead of O in the Greek) theon (Divine Eternal) kai (and) theos (divine) eimi (was) ho (the) logos (word)

In English we have:
In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with (The Only) Divine Eternal, and divine was the Word.

Why do translators drop off the definite article TON (the one or the only) before Divine Eternal?

Total dodge of Acts 2:21.

This isn't surprising.

 

[Red Baker]

Greetings Forum Members,

I also decided to speak about 1 Corinthians 8:6 and Psalm 110:1. I could comment on the progress or lack of progress of these four references, but I will allow everyone to assess this for themself (if you can find these among the other numerous off-topic posts). These four references are still open for any additional worthwhile relevant contribution, by the present contributors or by new contributors.

Greetings Trevor,

I do not mind going over these scriptures reference that you have posted. First 1st Corinthians 8:6.

1st Corinthians 8:4-7b~"As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge:..................................."

Paul declared in one glorious sentence the truth of our great Father God and Jesus Christ.​

In contrast to the Pantheon of pagan gods, there is but one God for worshippers of Jehovah.

We have our own religion, and it has precisely one God and one Saviour (Ist Thess 1:9-10). We reject every other god as a ridiculous perversion; and the makers and worshippers of those gods are to be considered just as ignorant (Psalm 115:8; 135:18; Isaiah 44:9-20). There is absolutely no room for thinking we worship the same god under different names! We reject any compromise whatsoever to either of these magnificent aspects of the truth.

From beginning to end of Scripture, believers are taught to be strict monotheists of Jehovah. Moses commanded Israel to worship the one and only God, the LORD Jehovah (Deut 6:4). All things in heaven and earth obtained their origin from Him alone (Exodus 20:11). We are in Him in a legal and vital union too wonderful to know (John 10:29; Eph 1:23). Our religion unites us inseparably to God our Father (I Thess 1:1; II Thess 1:1).

There is only one Lord Jesus Christ, the Mediator between God and men, of our salvation. Jesus was executor of creation by being the Word of God (John 1:3; Eph 3:9; Heb 1:2). Jesus is our Savior, legally and vitally, by His death and regeneration (John 5:25; 10:11). All that we have and are spiritually is by the purchase price and work of Jesus Christ. As condemnation and death is by Adam; justification and life is by Christ (Rom 5:12-19).

This is our religion – absolute confidence in Jehovah and His Son, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. We reject all other religions as satanic delusions of depraved minds (Ist Cor 10:20; Jude 1:3). Paul allowed no room for Allah, Mohammed, Mary, or any other invention of deity by men.

Proverbs 8:30~"Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;"​

​

This proverb is often perverted to teach that Jesus is a begotten God – a secondary God generated by the Father. Heretics crept into the church 150 years after the apostles and taught that the deity of Jesus Christ was derived from His Father. They taught that Jehovah begat a Son in eternity by a mysterious process of eternal generation. You can read this blasphemy in John 1:18 of the NASV. Jehovah’s Witnesses, blasphemous heretics themselves, love such a devilish doctrine, for Jesus is a subordinate god to them.

Jesus is not a begotten God at all. Jesus is the mighty God (Is 9:6). Jesus is Jehovah, the fulness of the Godhead in a body (Col 2:9). Jesus is I AM THAT I AM. Jesus is the Everlasting Father (Is 9:6). Jesus is the Word of God made flesh (John 1:1,14). Jehovah never begat a god or a son in its divine nature. Jehovah had a Son named Jesus, when He brought about Mary’s conception; it is this miraculous birth that makes Jesus God’s Son (Luke 1:35). Only after this birth, this incarnation of deity in humanity, did God have a Son (John 1:14,18). Not until then! This is the great mystery of godliness (I Tim 3:16). Believe it!

The most important message of the New Testament is that Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of God, and it is this precise doctrine you must believe and defend. A derived, begotten, generated, or otherwise inferior deity from eternity is not the Son of God. The divine nature of Jesus was and is undivided, unbegotten, unoriginated, and ungenerated. He was and is the Word of God, without origin, begetting, generation, or any other manmade idea (John 1:1). He is Jehovah. Jesus is not an eternal Son. He is the eternal God. He became the Son of God by His glorious incarnation in Mary’s womb (Luke 1:35; Gal 4:4).

These heretics ignorantly reject the personification of wisdom in this chapter. The proverb does not speak of God having a little boy playing with Him in eternity! Lady Wisdom speaks, and she is figuratively describing herself as always having been with the LORD of heaven and earth. Read Pr 8:22 again. Here it is: “The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.” God has always had wisdom.
If this proverb describes the divine nature of Jesus in eternity, as some false teachers say, then the divine nature of Jesus is female, for the pronouns are feminine! Wisdom is a woman by personification in this chapter and the other places where Solomon used the figure. If Jesus is intended here, then He was just a female spectator at creation (Pr 8:27).

 

[Red Baker]

My aim in this thread is to consider one Scripture at a time, and I have nominated 1 John 5:7, John 10:30-33, 1 Corinthians 8:6 and Psalm 110:1. I could review and summarise our respective answers on John 10:30-33, and I am confident that I covered this subject adequately and your response was far from being convincing or correct. You ended up siding with the false accusation by the Jews and ignoring the comprehensive answer by Jesus. As far as 1 John 5:7 is concerned, it appears that the main reason why @Red Baker endorses this verse is because of his KJVO position. There has been no real response to 1 Corinthians 8:6 and Psalm 110:1.

Greetings Trevor,

Please take time to hear this short sermon on Psalms 110:1 Listen to the one 05/27/12

Psalm 110 Commentary

Audio Commentary: Psalm 110 Psalm 110 1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. 2

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