Yahweh 301,302 or Trinity 301,302

[Eleanor]

Hi I would offer. .

The Father and the Holy Spirit, same God.

Agreed. . .and to which the testimony of the NT adds the Son, God incarnate in Jesus of Nazareth (Jn 1:1, 14), therefore,
making three distinct persons in the one God:
the Son sent by the Father in the Father's name (Jn 5:23, 36, 43),
the Spirit sent by the Father in the Son's name (Jn 14:26),
the Spirit sent by the Son as well as the Father (Jn 15:26, 16:7, 14:26).

One doesn't send oneself, one sends another person.
The NT presents three distinct persons in the one God.

 

[Runningman]

Hi I would offer. .

The Father and the Holy Spirit, same God.

Same person, different names. The Father is God and is holy and is Spirit, therefore He is Holy Spirit. Just as we have a spirit, God has a Spirit and soul. Our spirit isn't a different person to ourselves and neither is God's Spirit a different person to Himself. This is misunderstood by Trinitarians.

Other times, Holy Spirit is an anointing.

 

[Runningman]

The NT testimony of Jesus, John and Paul presented to you (as in post #486) are between you and the Holy Spirit who knows whether you are being truthful or whether you are lying to yourself regarding that NT testimony.
My job is simply to present it. The rest is between you and him.

Sorry, not interested in joining your religion. I am a Christian.

 

[Eleanor]

not interested in joining your religion. I am a Christian.

The NT testimony of Jesus, John and Paul presented to you (as in post #486) are between you and the Holy Spirit who knows whether you are being truthful or whether you are lying to yourself regarding that NT testimony.
My job is simply to present it. The rest is between you and him.

 

[Runningman]

Yes, Jesus as the Son of man is our brother in the Lord. Not our unseen Holy Father as Christ (the anointing one, or teaching one ) Christ works in sons and daughters of men dying mankind, giving them new life as sons of God born again .

When the prophet Jesus was given words from the Father the Christ. Jesus said to Nicodemus a man must be born again, he was including himself. Like he said marvel not but rather believe .

Whosoever does the will of the Father as sons of God (Christians) they are from the adopted family of God our Father . Call no man on earth the adopting Holt Father by which as sons of God can cry out Abba Holy Father not seen .

A few verses I think can help understand

Mark 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

Matthew 12:50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Call no man on earth Holy Father .

Indeed. Jesus is God's offspring, as all of God's true sons and daughters are.

Paul plainly stated this and pointed out that a man as God is idolatry.

Acts 17
29Therefore, being offspring of God, we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by man’s skill and imagination.30Although God overlooked the ignorance of earlier times, He now commands all people everywhere to repent.

Paul bluntly stated that the Divine Being is not something humans can form with their skill or imagination. That rules out a human being like Jesus being God.

 

[Runningman]

The NT testimony of Jesus, John and Paul presented to you (as in post #486) are between you and the Holy Spirit who knows whether you are being truthful or whether you are lying to yourself regarding that NT testimony.
My job is simply to present it. The rest is between you and him.

Post it again.

 

[Eleanor]

Post it again.

Okay. . .glad you like it.

The NT testimony of Jesus, John and Paul presented to you (as in post #486) is between you and the Holy Spirit who knows whether you are being truthful or whether you are lying to yourself regarding that NT testimony.
My job is simply to present it. The rest is between you and him.

 

[Runningman]

Okay. . .glad you like it.

The NT testimony of Jesus, John and Paul presented to you (as in post #486) are between you and the Holy Spirit who knows whether you are being truthful or whether you are lying to yourself regarding that NT testimony.
My job is simply to present it. The rest is between you and him.

John 17.3; 1 Corinthians 8.4, 6; and Ephesians 4.4-6, and 1 John 5:20 explicitly state the only true God is the Father. None of the apostles believed Jesus is a man god. You have an idol. Humans aren't God nor did a human create the universe.

 

[Eleanor]

None of the apostles believed Jesus is a man god.

Amnesia?. . .previously addressed.

"the Word was with God, and the Word was God. . .the Word became flesh and dwelled among us." (Jn 1:1, 14)

Humans aren't God nor did a human create the universe.

The NT testimony of Jesus, John and Paul presented to you (as in post #486) are between you and the Holy Spirit who knows whether you are being truthful or whether you are lying to yourself regarding the testimony of that post.
My job is simply to present it. The rest is between you and him.

 

[Runningman]

Amnesia?. . .previously addressed.

"the Word was with God, and the Word was God. . .the Word became flesh and dwelled among us." (Jn 1:1, 14)

The NT testimony of Jesus, John and Paul presented to you (as in post #486) are between you and the Holy Spirit who knows whether you are being truthful or whether you are lying to yourself regarding the testimony of that post.
My job is simply to present it. The rest is between you and him.

Got it. Just need to stop engaging your posts because you seem to have nothing but spam to contribute over the past few days.

 

[Eleanor]

"the Word was with God, and the Word was God. . .the Word became flesh and dwelled among us." (Jn 1:1, 14)

The NT testimony of Jesus, John and Paul presented to you (as in post #486) are between you and the Holy Spirit who knows whether you are being truthful or whether you are lying to yourself regarding the testimony of that post.
My job is simply to present it. The rest is between you and him.

Got it.

Good to hear.

 

[makesends]

Okay. . .glad you like it.

The NT testimony of Jesus, John and Paul presented to you (as in post #486) is between you and the Holy Spirit who knows whether you are being truthful or whether you are lying to yourself regarding that NT testimony.
My job is simply to present it. The rest is between you and him.

Lol, hardly even funny anymore, as many times as you have —very appropriately— posted these words. My condolences on the horse. He apparently can't read.

 

[Runningman]

If anyone feels like they can recover the tatters of what was once the trinity, step up. Otherwise, I'll leave this thread with Jesus getting the last word about there being only one true God known as the Father, his God, and my God.


John 17
3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

 

[makesends]

If anyone feels like they can recover the tatters of what was once the trinity, step up. Otherwise, I'll leave this thread with Jesus getting the last word about there being only one true God known as the Father, his God, and my God.


John 17
3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

Even in English, we sometimes use the word, 'and', to mean, 'even'. In other words, John 17:3 does not prove that Jesus Christ is not God, but at most that there are two persons in 'the Godhead' mentioned. The force of the verse is to know them —both.

 

[Runningman]

Even in English, we sometimes use the word, 'and', to mean, 'even'. In other words, John 17:3 does not prove that Jesus Christ is not God, but at most that there are two persons in 'the Godhead' mentioned. The force of the verse is to know them —both.

Speaking to the Father, Jesus called Him, the only true God in the singular. In English, only refers to exclusiveness and one of a kind. It would seem your hope in an alternative translation is unlikely and appears forced.

What's your work around for Ephesians 4:6?

6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

 

[makesends]

Speaking to the Father, Jesus called Him, the only true God in the singular. In English, only refers to exclusiveness and one of a kind. It would seem your hope in an alternative translation is unlikely and appears forced.

What's your work around for Ephesians 4:6?

6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

No, it is you who force it. God is the only true God. That doesn't mean that Jesus is not God, one of three persons within that Godhead.

As several of us have noted, you are fond of what @Josheb calls, 'prooftexting'. You quote one small passage as if it was standalone, then misuse it to make your point. This verse, as a standalone, only says exactly what it says. It does not say, nor imply, that Jesus is not God. The rest of Scripture, when brought to bear, shows that indeed he IS God.

Because this format is not conducive to long arguments and because you will not listen if reasonable arguments are made and because of your arrogant posture, prooftexts are thrown right back at you. And, as expected, you will twist them if you even listen.

Here's an example of what I just told you. Ephesians 4:6 —you ask to see my 'work around'. See that already? Noise, arrogance, presumption, antagonism; why didn't you just ask to see my work? But no, you have to do it that way. My answer is as short as your question, in keeping with your method.

So, Ephesians 4:6 "one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." I suppose you think this by plain reading means that only the Father is God, since it only mentions the Father.
(Ha, if I take this by 'plain reading' method, God's use of 'and' the way you use it, designates God as NOT the Father.)

—Well, Isaiah 9:6 says,
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

What is your workaround for this verse?

 

[Josheb]

As several of us have noted, you are fond of what @Josheb calls, 'prooftexting'. You quote one small passage as if it was standalone, then misuse it to make your point. This verse, as a standalone, only says exactly what it says. It does not say, nor imply, that Jesus is not God. The rest of Scripture, when brought to bear, shows that indeed he IS God.

In the future, I will endeavor to periodically be clearer on the matter of proof-texting for the benefit of all so that the strength of properly used scripture and the weaknesses of misused scripture are more apparent.

Proof-texting is the removal of a single verse or two are removed from their inherent, scripturally provided text and contexts and the selected texts are used to say things they do not say when examined in their surrounding text and context. This is eisegetic.

Conversely, a "proof text" is a verse or a passage that legitimately summarizes a position taught by the whole of scripture, one that does not conflict with any other individual verse or passage pertaining to the same subject. It is proof of a doctrine that has been obtained by proper, sound exegesis and one of the first rule of exegesis is to never read just one verse and think it explains everything in disregard to all else scripture as a whole has to say on the subject.


An example of a proper proof text would be Ephesians 2:5-10 (with an understanding that passage is part of a larger narrative that begins at Eph. 1:18). An example of improper proof-texting would be quoting only the first half of Ephesians 2:8 and then arguing salvation is therefore by faith and God waits to see the sinner assert his trust/belief/faith in God before God extends regenerative grace. A worse, hyperbolic example of improper proof-texting (provided for its absurdity to highlight the problem) would be citing Matthew 5:30 to justify actually cutting off body parts to reduce sin and obtain righteousness.

Proof-texting should never be thought to achieve a proof text.


Hope this helps.

 

[Eleanor]

In the future, I will endeavor to periodically be clearer on the matter of proof-texting

It will take more than that to make up for your arrogant self-righteous manner in previously failing to do so in regard to Ex 21:20-21, Lev 25:44-46.

for the benefit of all so that the strength of properly used scripture and the weaknesses of misused scripture are more apparent.

Proof-texting is the removal of a single verse or two are removed from their inherent, scripturally provided text and contexts and the selected texts are used to say things they do not say when examined in their surrounding text and context. This is eisegetic.

That is your personal definition of proof-texting, which does not unseat proof-texting that
legitimately summarizes a position taught by the whole of Scripture,
which does not conflict with any other individual verse or passage pertaining to the same subject and
which is proof of a doctrine that has been obtained by proper, sound exegesis.

That definition is simply your "work-around" for the "proof text" of which you are either ignorant or do not agree; i.e., Ex 21:20-21, Lev 25:44-46.

 

[Runningman]

No, it is you who force it. God is the only true God. That doesn't mean that Jesus is not God, one of three persons within that Godhead.

As several of us have noted, you are fond of what @Josheb calls, 'prooftexting'. You quote one small passage as if it was standalone, then misuse it to make your point. This verse, as a standalone, only says exactly what it says. It does not say, nor imply, that Jesus is not God. The rest of Scripture, when brought to bear, shows that indeed he IS God.

Because this format is not conducive to long arguments and because you will not listen if reasonable arguments are made and because of your arrogant posture, prooftexts are thrown right back at you. And, as expected, you will twist them if you even listen.

Here's an example of what I just told you. Ephesians 4:6 —you ask to see my 'work around'. See that already? Noise, arrogance, presumption, antagonism; why didn't you just ask to see my work? But no, you have to do it that way. My answer is as short as your question, in keeping with your method.

So, Ephesians 4:6 "one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." I suppose you think this by plain reading means that only the Father is God, since it only mentions the Father.
(Ha, if I take this by 'plain reading' method, God's use of 'and' the way you use it, designates God as NOT the Father.)

So called "proof-texting" is all over the Bible. Jesus and the apostles did it often because it's a way to draw attention to key details without overloading with too much information and drifting off topic.

For example, Deuteronomy 6:4,5 says "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One. And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength." Jesus quoted it verbatim, as recorded in the gospels, such as in Mark 12:29,30 for example, emphasizing the fact that YHWH is One God.

Jesus literally said it's the most important thing.

Mark 12​

29Jesus replied, “This is the most important: ‘Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One.​

So was Jesus proof texting or snatching anything out of context? Of course not. He is drawing attention to the fact that there is only one singular person who is God known as YHWH. When Jesus and the apostles said there is only one God the Father they are referring to the only God mentioned in Scripture, YHWH Himself. John 17:3, 1 Cor. 8:6, Eph. 4:6.

—Well, Isaiah 9:6 says,
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

What is your workaround for this verse?

My workaround isn't really a workaround, but the fact that Jesus was never called the Father. That's a problem. Also, Trinitarians don't believe the Son is the Father. Actually, Jesus denied being the Father.

Jesus, on earth, said they have one Father who is in heaven which is not earth. Ipso facto, Jesus is not the Father and not God. There is that word "one" again. Pay attention.

Matt 23​

9And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.​

​

Curious what Isaiah 9:6 is really about?

 

[makesends]

So called "proof-texting" is all over the Bible. Jesus and the apostles did it often because it's a way to draw attention to key details without overloading with too much information and drifting off topic.

For example, Deuteronomy 6:4,5 says "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One. And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength." Jesus quoted it verbatim, as recorded in the gospels, such as in Mark 12:29,30 for example, emphasizing the fact that YHWH is One God.

Jesus literally said it's the most important thing.

Mark 12​

29Jesus replied, “This is the most important: ‘Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One.​

So was Jesus proof texting or snatching anything out of context? Of course not. He is drawing attention to the fact that there is only one singular person who is God known as YHWH. When Jesus and the apostles said there is only one God the Father they are referring to the only God mentioned in Scripture, YHWH Himself. John 17:3, 1 Cor. 8:6, Eph. 4:6.

"Person" may be the point here. Your concept assumes that our thinking is factual, substantive. It is not —God is not like us. What Jesus said is exactly right. Strange that his audience would be taking him sometimes to be saying that he was God, and that he did not deny it! Christianity —even according to secular identifications of it— is monotheistic, yet the same sources would generally agree that Christianity is trinitarian.

My workaround isn't really a workaround, but the fact that Jesus was never called the Father. That's a problem. Also, Trinitarians don't believe the Son is the Father. Actually, Jesus denied being the Father.

Jesus, on earth, said they have one Father who is in heaven which is not earth. Ipso facto, Jesus is not the Father and not God. There is that word "one" again. Pay attention.

Matt 23​

9And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.​

​

Curious what Isaiah 9:6 is really about?

"I and the Father are one" still needs a workaround for you.

Do you think Isaiah 9:6 is only about the prophet's child? Was that child called "Almighty God" and "Everlasting Father"?