Believe in the triune god will not be the way to salvation, friend.
Yahweh 301,302 or Trinity 301,302
- Thread starter TrevorL
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Agreed. . .one God in three distinct persons of the one "name of Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Mt 28:19).
"The Word was with God, and the Word was God. . .the Word became flesh and dwelled among us." (Jn 1:1, 14)
You either believe the apostle John or you don't. It's not my job to convince you.
That is between you and the Holy Spirit, who knows if you are being truthful with yourself regarding the word of God presented in post #450.
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But denying the word of God in Jn 1:1, 14 and in post #450 is?
I dont deny. I only deny how Trinitarians interpretation. Big difference.
No one asking you to convince anyone.
Runningman
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The Greek says the Word is a word called logos. It means a word, speech, or analogy. If Jesus pre-existed then it simply means he pre-existed in the foreknowledge and thoughts of God. This isn’t unprecedented since God spoke of Jeremiah in foreknowledge in Jeremiah 1:5.
God spoke, as God does in creation, and created a man. Since there are no examples of Jesus saying or doing anything in the Old Testament, there isn’t a reason to accept your interpretation.
That isn’t what is happening. I quote John 1:1-14 to disprove the deity of Jesus because that’s what I believe it does. I just don’t agree with your interpretation because it contradicts the Bible. It can’t be correct.
Previously addressed. . .
Previously addressed. . .ad infinitum.
Runningman
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”The word is God and the word was with God” according to your hyper-literal interpretation makes two Gods. That’s polytheism. This fact alone should guide you away from what you’ve said to a sound interpretation.
There is more than one way to address this in a biblically viable way.
1. Translation issue of John 1:1:
The absence of the article (“the”) before “God” in the Greek makes the word “God” qualitative, which can be understood as “the Word had the character of God,” meaning that it was godly.
2. Personification of words, a speech, or an analogy such as how wisdom is called a she in Proverbs 8 and 9. Wisdom isn’t literally a person or does anyone normally think so.
3. This point goes in hand with point 1, but 1 John 2:1-2 refers to the logos as an it. God isn’t an it, but words are an it.
Or it makes two persons in the one God, along with the Holy Spirit making three persons in the one God.
Rich! . .the Scripture which presents two persons in one God can't be true because it would agree with the doctrine of three persons in one God.
and got debunked.
says triune god bileiver.
Runningman
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Obviously not since Jesus said the Father in your trinity is the only true God in John 17:3. The Bible is your enemy on this point.
Jesus as the christ our holy father .Not Jesus the son of man .he was born on earth into a dying body Our father used him as propmised to show the world the power of our invible God .You could say two saviors working as one .Two and not three is the witness God spoke, the Elohim in Genesis 2 The Us . .three or more is a crowd
Three denotes the end of a matter . Three days and three nights, ,the demonstration of two is finished
He is referred to as such within the same book (cf. Revelation 1:13).
Runningman
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Jesus on Earth said call no one on Earth your father. Therefore, he rejected being called Father and that's a rejection of being God.
Matt 23
9And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
Look at Isaiah 9:6, where it says it says he will be called "everlasting Father..." Jesus debunked being that he is the Father in Matt 23:9. It's a bad translation because Jesus isn't the mighty God either.
I was not suggesting to call, a man on earth Holy Father one is in heaven not seen
Names have to do with attributes every name has a meaning assigned to it .
Two different persons Jesus(savior )as the Christ (the anointing or teaching) the holy Spirit of the Father And Jesus(savior ) the Son of man used to demonstrate dying mankind being saved or born again. The demonstration of two working as one.
The Son of man is not the Christ, a unseen Spirit as our teacher guide and comforter.
The Spirit of Christ worked in the flesh of the Son of man Jesus our brother in the Lord just as he works in us both to hear and empower dying mankind to do the good will of the Father.
Jesus the Son of man having no power of his own was moved by the mighty Father again to both will and do .
Jesus did the will empowered by the father with delight some complain and murmur .(what about me don't I get some credit for salvation.?)
No, none.zero
Jonah the murmurer did the will of God kicking against the pricks all the way and wanted to die for "his good pleasure" he hated the Ninevites that knew nothing spiritually as it is writen in the Bible . Not knowing the left from the right hand about God as a personal relationship of two willing as one..
Teaching us Almighty God if he choses can use a unbeliever to preach the gospel as easily as one that is given the faith of Christ the power of God that works in us to both hear and do
Philippians 2:13-14 For it is God which worketh in you"both to will" and to"do" of his good pleasure.
Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
I see that parable using metaphors (candlesticks) to represent the unseen glory of the unseen Father candle sticks to represent the light of the word that illuminates. the path for dying mankind.
The (golden girdle) .With Gold the only rudiment of this corrupted world used in creation that gets the good approval of God. Only God is good used to represent the faith of Christ the unseen power of God. It is used in the priestly garments . Golden measure, the measure of faith again (the unseen) Not the literal measure of men.
Eyes of fire the judgement of the Father.
Genesis 2:11The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
Search out the signified understand that of parable. Parables teach us how to walk by faith after the unseen eternal things of God .Not after the dying flesh of the Son of man the temporal seen .Jesus the Son of man was used to show the power of the unseen Father .
Revelation 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Like the Son of man not literally the Son. God is not a man
Revelation 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
As like the word like used 7 times (6) as . (1) like . Both denote a parable is in view. Not literally his eyes were a flame of fire, God is not a man he has no eyes described as a thousand to represent a unknown .
Revelation:15-18 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys(not literal keys) of hell and of death.
The parable above (verse 12 -18 it is loaded with metaphors. Remember without parables Christ the Holy Spirit spoke not.hiding the gospel or spiritual understand from the lost
That is clearly a parable.The signified tongue of God
Jesu the Christ unsen is God not the son of man he is a mans our born agin brother in thelord
Many hear the gospel call but few are elected or chosen by God who is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul desires. No man can turn Him (Job 23)
Matthew 20:16So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Matthew 22:14For many are called, but few are chosen.
Job 23 :12 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me
We should ask ourselves. Who makes or creates in us new heart soft and what makes it soft?
I would think the water of the word, it inspired from above falls down like rain, the water of the word and bring life on earth . .the doctrines of the Holy Spirt. (Deuteronomy 32 : 1-2)
I would offer as usual the "mystery of faith". .the power of God's labor of love as a work of His powerful faith .
Many misunderstands in so much that it is a work of God and not of our own selves (we had no faith as a power that cold please him prior to him creating in us a new heart (soft)
Many hear the gospel call but do not mix faith the unseen things a power of eternal God mixed. . . with the temporal literal things of this world or historical, the gospel understanding his in aparles form the lost reveald to us.
Hebrews 4 King James Version4:1-2 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
The non believers focus is on the temporal, literal, historical and not the unseen eternal things of Christ's faith .
The mixing formula needed to rightly divide the parables (20/20 prescription) is given to us freely below . He did not leave us as orphans without the tools needed to rightful divide the parables giving us a tool be which we could seek after him in order to have his unseen promised approval. The loving commandant to study rightly dividing the parables ( 2 Timothy 2:15)
2 Corinthians 4:17-18 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
No mixing recipe. . no gospel rest. Yoked with him we can rest
The Lord used the whole period of times KIngs in Israel as a parable, the signified or poetic tongue of Christ. Until the time of the first century reformation. Restoring the order of God. as King of kings reigning from heaven.
Many from my experience deny the first century reformation and focus more on the 15th century. The first is the pattern .Any other carbon copies .
Again the first century set the standard by which we could judge the 15th .
Sola scriptura the final authority in matters of the faith of Christ's labor of love . . . in any generation or family where two or three gather under the hearing of the gospel of Emanuel, God yoked with us, not God is us
Hebrew 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, (the use of metaphors) that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Which was a figure (parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, (as a shadow )imposed on them until the time of reformation.
