Yahweh 301,302 or Trinity 301,302

[Eleanor]

What does the text say ?

I was referring to Heb 11:13-16, but I think you are asking about Heb 11:39-40, which states:

"And all of these, though well attested by their faith, did not receive the things promised, since God had foreseen something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect."

It's not about earthly and heavenly here, it's about OT types and NT realities in the gospel, the issue in Heb being their possible apostasy, 2:1-2, and return to Judaism.
It's not about a future incorruptible body, it's about the present gospel state, which the OT had only in types and shadows, they did not have the antitype and could not see the substance, and yet the OT saints believed, which these NT Hebrews were in danger of not doing.

 

[Runningman]

Then learn how to answer questions more specifically and stop hiding simply because your false doctrine can't be defended.

Or how about you just practice intellectual honesty?

 

[Fred]

You need to know that the one who "gave himself" is Jesus so you can understand who the "he" is referring to. Yes we do belong to Jesus, but Jesus belongs to God.

1 Cor 3
23and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God.

Another dodge.

Keep hiding.

 

[Fred]

Or how about you just practice intellectual honesty?

I try to by asking very specific questions because I know through years of experience that those who deny the Lord Jesus is God engage in evasion and deception.

 

[Runningman]

Another dodge.

Keep hiding.

Hilarious. I think when you say dodge or strawman that it's actually you have lost. It's tantamount to a non-answer.

Let me know when you can answer post #240. Ball is in your court, Fred.

 

[Fred]

Hilarious.

Actually, it is sad that you do this.

 

[Eleanor]

Person 1 = Great God
Person 2 = Savior Jesus

That's two different persons.

Yes, there are three distinct persons in the one God.

 

[Runningman]

I try to by asking very specific questions because I know through years of experience that those who deny the Lord Jesus is God engage in evasion and deception.

Fred, you said:

"You mentioned "God" and "Jesus" in your response.
Thanks for affirming the singular pronoun refers to both."

And I said I don't do that. Now you're blaming me. Let's be clear, you misrepresented me. Obviously you are not practicing intellectual honesty because if you were to do so you wouldn't need to misrepresent me to promote your false doctrines.

 

[Runningman]

Yes, there are three distinct persons in the one God.

Where did anyone say or describe this in the Bible though?

 

[Fred]

Fred, you said:

"You mentioned "God" and "Jesus" in your response.
Thanks for affirming the singular pronoun refers to both."

And I said I don't do that. Now you're blaming me. Let's be clear, you misrepresented me. Obviously you are not practicing intellectual honesty because if you were to do so you wouldn't need to misrepresent me to promote your false doctrines.

To whom does the singular "His" refer to in Titus 2:14.

"A people for His own possession."

I don't need an explanation right now.

Just answer the question.

 

[Runningman]

To whom does the singular "His" refer to in Titus 2:14.

I don't need an explanation right now.

Just answer the question.

Bro, I answered that directly in post #240. Keep up.

 

[Eleanor]

Great, then you do agree Jesus is not YHWH in Psalm 110:1? So why do you keep saying they are the same person when the Bible doesn't explicitly say so, but when the Bible does explicitly show they are not the same person you still say they're the same?

Why do you keep denying the apostolic testimony to the divinity of Jesus which gives the lie to your assertion?

 

[Fred]

Bro, I answered that directly in post #240. Keep up.

You answered in regards to "Himself".

Stop dodging.

 

[Runningman]

Why do you keep denying the apostolic testimony that gives the lie to your assertion?

Let's just go for line two of what you wrote:

Ro 10:9, 13 regarding Joel 2:32 where Paul teaches Jesus is the YHWH of Joel's prophecy that "everyone who calls on the name of YHWH will be saved."

Romans 10:9 refers to believing in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead. The one we are believing in and calling on the name of is YHWH. It's in the context between Romans 10:9,13

9that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
11It is just as the Scripture says: “Anyone who believes in Him will never be put to shame.” 12For there is no difference between Jew and Greek: The same Lord is Lord of all, and gives richly to all who call on Him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

 

[Runningman]

You answered in regards to "Himself".

Stop dodging.

I have replied to everything you said. If you need to pretend like I am not answering you because you don't have a legitimate reply then go ahead. You're free to go back and read my responses.

 

[Eleanor]

Where did anyone say or describe this in the Bible though?

You will find one divine Being, God, in three separate divine persons described in the following where
both Jesus and the Holy Spirit are God, and all three are presented in NT teaching from the beginning.

1) We have three separate persons (divine agents), Father, Son and Holy Spirit,
presented in the work of salvation:

a)--at its beginning (Luke 1:35),
-----at the inauguration of Jesus' public ministry (Matthew 3:16-17) and
-----in the work of atonement (Hebrews 9:14),

b) the Holy Spirit completing the work (salvation) of the Father through the Son
(Acts 2:38-39; Romans 8:26; 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 1:3-14, Ephesians 2:13-22; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:2),

c) the only way to enter the kingdom of the Father (salvation) is through faith in the Son and regeneration by the Holy Spirit (John 3:1-15).

2) And Jesus shows the personhoods of three distinct and separate divine agents:

The Son is sent by the Father, in the Father's name (John 5:23, 36, 43).
The Spirit is sent by the Father in the Son's name (John 14:26).
The Spirit is subject to the Son as well as to the Father, for the Spirit is sent by the Son as well as the Father (John 15:26, 16:7, 14:26).

One doesn't send oneself, one sends another who is separate from oneself.

The Trinity--one God in three separate divine persons--is presented in NT teaching from the beginning.

And which Biblical description you can be expected to deny, just as you deny the apostolic testimony to the divinity of Jesus.

It's not about lack of Biblical testimony, its about lack of belief.

 

[Fred]

Let's just go for line two of what you wrote:

Ro 10:9, 13 regarding Joel 2:32 where Paul teaches Jesus is the YHWH of Joel's prophecy that "everyone who calls on the name of YHWH will be saved."

Romans 10:9 refers to believing in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead. The one we are believing in and calling on the name of is YHWH. It's in the context between Romans 10:9,13

9that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
11It is just as the Scripture says: “Anyone who believes in Him will never be put to shame.” 12For there is no difference between Jew and Greek: The same Lord is Lord of all, and gives richly to all who call on Him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Concerning Romans 10:11, Paul already applied what is taught there in reference to Jesus in Romans 9:33. Peter applies this to Jesus as well (1 Peter 2:6).

 

[Runningman]

Concerning Romans 10:11, Paul already applied what is taught there in reference to Jesus in Romans 9:33. Peter applies this to Jesus as well (1 Peter 2:6).

The LORD refers to YHWH in Joel 2:32. Joel 2:32 is also quoted in Acts 2. They clearly show that Jesus isn't YHWH.

Acts 2
21And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord
will be saved.’

22Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know. 23He was delivered up by God’s set plan and foreknowledge, and you, by the hands of the lawless, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross. 24But God raised Him from the dead, releasing Him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for Him to be held in its clutches.

 

[Fred]

The LORD refers to YHWH in Joel 2:32. Joel 2:32 is also quoted in Acts 2. They clearly show that Jesus isn't YHWH.

Acts 2
21And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord
will be saved.’

22Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know. 23He was delivered up by God’s set plan and foreknowledge, and you, by the hands of the lawless, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross. 24But God raised Him from the dead, releasing Him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for Him to be held in its clutches.

Next time try to actually address the passages I cited.
In fact, you totally dodged the entire Book of Romans.

Classic!

 

[Eleanor]

Let's just go for line two of what you wrote:

Ro 10:9, 13 regarding Joel 2:32 where Paul teaches Jesus is the YHWH of Joel's prophecy that "everyone who calls on the name of YHWH will be saved."

Romans 10:9 refers to believing in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead. The one we are believing in and calling on the name of is YHWH. It's in the context between Romans 10:9,13

9that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
11It is just as the Scripture says: “Anyone who believes in Him will never be put to shame.” 12For there is no difference between Jew and Greek: The same Lord is Lord of all, and gives richly to all who call on Him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Jesus is the LORD (Ro 10:9), the YHWH of Joel 2:32 (in Ro 10:13), upon whom everyone must call to be saved.