Yahweh 301,302 or Trinity 301,302

[Eleanor]

I have done some .

You might do Daniel over again.

It is like the term daughters of men .It denoted flesh and blood what the eyes see the temporal Sons of God is what they become when born from above . Two births earthy and the second not seen, eternal.

The testimony is of God not the apostle's .they are considered as nothing .The word they bring the are spirit life giving .the flesh profits for zero.

What part of the testimony of the apostles is the testimony of God do you not understand?
A = Is the NT the testimony of the apostles?
B = Is the NT the word of God?
C = Is the word of God the testimony of God?
A = B = C

You have a sub-Biblical, therefore sub-Christian view of Scripture.

 

[Eleanor]

I could debunk your presentation of scripture in post 182 if I took the time to address it all, but I haven't because I don't believe addressing each point would keep anyone's attention who didn't like what they were reading. I know how this goes. I disprove the Trinity then others just deny that's what happened. I will make an exception for you if you are sure you want me to address post #182 in full. Thanks.

I'm thinking
1) NT revelation is the fulfillment of OT revelation, and
2) there is nothing that would give me to disbelieve the clear and plain statements of the NT revelation in post #182,
I don't get to manipulate them into stating what they do not specifically state.

I am willing at this point to address your refutation of only one presented in post #182.
Pick your strongest case and we'll go from there.
Keeping in mind that correct understanding of Scripture does not set it against itself, but reconciles it to itself in the light of all Scripture.
To save time, the NT reveals only one God, in three distinct persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit (see post #5).
(There is only one me, in three distinct operations, thought, speech and action.)

 

[Eleanor]

Spiritual resurrection. Spiritual gift .

Spiritual resurrection = new birth.
Spiritual gift = eternal life.

Christ poured out His Holy Spirit of dying flesh. Jesus said his own corrupted flesh profits for zero.
It's not a physical resurrections.

It's the same kind of resurrection as that of Jesus, who was the first fruits of the resurrection (1 Co 15:23), and to a physical body (Lk 24:39).

All die not receiving the promise of a new incorruptible body

Agreed. . .because no new incorruptible body is promised before death (1 Co 15:35-54).

Keeping in mind that in Paul "spiritual" does not mean, immaterial, non-corporeal, without a body,
but means of the province of the Holy Spirit; i.e., sinless, incorruptible, everlasting.
Our spiritual resurrection body is physical, as was Jesus' resurrection body (Lk 24:39), sinless, incorruptible, everlasting.

Hebrew 11:39-40 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Context. . .referring, among others, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob not receiving the promised land of Canaan, but instead receiving the heavenly land (Heb 11:13-16).

When Jesus said a man must be born again he did not exclude himself. Marvel not.

Not the case when he was generated by God as his father and where, in God's economy, one's spiritual state (eternal life or eternal death) is inherited from one's father, which is why all the sons of Adam are born in spiritual death.

Dying mankind in the place of our unseen eternal God .The abomination of desolation, makings Holy Spirit desolate void of His understanding .
Not the understanding the Son of man Jesus, he had no power to raise his own self let alone the whole Christian world.

Yes, only God raises from the dead (2 Co 1:9), including those raised from the dead in the NT; e.g, Lazarus, which is the point Jesus was making.

 

[Runningman]

I'm thinking
1) NT revelation is the fulfillment of OT revelation, and
2) there is nothing that would give me to disbelieve the clear and plain statements of the NT revelation in post #182,
I don't get to manipulate them into stating what they do not specifically state.

I am willing at this point to address your refutation of only one presented in post #182.
Pick your strongest case and we'll go from there.
Keeping in mind that correct understanding of Scripture does not set it against itself, but reconciles it to itself in the light of all Scripture.
To save time, the NT reveals only one God, in three distinct persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit (see post #5).
(There is only one me, in three distinct operations, thought, speech and action.)

Okay, just deal with the NT apostolic testimony identifying Jesus as the YHWH (God) of the OT in:

Mt 3:3 and Lk 1:67-68, 76 regarding Isa 40:3 that Jesus is the YHWH of whom the voice calling in the wilderness (John the Baptist) prepared the way.

I will just address the first line you mentioned in post #182.

Jesus isn't YHWH because in this context, it is actually YHWH who is with Jesus rather than Jesus actually being YHWH Himself.

If you will cross reference this with John 1:9,30 you will see that the there is a "True Light" (God) who gives light to every man coming into the world. When Jesus came, John the Baptist pointed out Jesus is a man. This means that Jesus isn't the True Light giving light to himself, the man. (side note: God denied being a man or a son of man Numbers 23:19, Hosea 11:9)

John 1​

9The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world.​

30This is He of whom I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because He was before me.’​

Rather than Jesus actually being YHWH, Jesus is the one anointed by YHWH and it all began at John's water baptism of repentance. The LORD whom John was preparing the way for and making straight paths for is indeed YHWH (as you correctly showed with Isaiah 40:3), because YHWH was with Jesus not that Jesus is himself YHWH. (side note: this is also why Jesus is known as Immanuel, God is with us, in Matt 1:23)

Acts 10​

37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.​

 

[Mr GLee]

Context. . .referring, among others, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob not receiving the promised land of Canaan, but instead receiving the heavenly land (Heb 11:13-16).

It is referring to a human body, the old corrupted turns to dust.

It's not the dust or land that did not received the promise. . living people.

Hebrews 11:37-39 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;(Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise

 

[Eleanor]

I will just address the first line you mentioned in post #182.

Jesus isn't YHWH because in this context, it is actually YHWH who is with Jesus rather than Jesus actually being YHWH Himself.

So you simply do not believe the plain statements of Mt 3:3, Mk 1:3 and Lk 1:67-68, 76.

If you will cross reference this with John 1:9,30 you will see that the there is a "True Light" (God) who gives light to every man coming into the world. When Jesus came, John the Baptist pointed out Jesus is a man. This means that Jesus isn't the True Light giving light to himself, the man. (side note: God denied being a man or a son of man Numbers 23:19, Hosea 11:9)

Instead of reconciling Scripture to itself (the only way Scripture is corrrecty understood), you set Scripture against itself to defend your unbelief.

No need to proceed any further.

 

[Runningman]

So you simply do not believe the plain statements of Mt 3:3, Mk 1:3 and Lk 1:67-68, 76.

Instead of reconciling Scripture to itself (the only way Scripture is corrrecty understood), you set Scripture against itself to defend your unbelief.

No need to proceed any further.

Thank you for sharing your opinion. If you have an exegetical rebuttal I would be happy to continue.

 

[Eleanor]

It is referring to a human body,

Not according to the text.

the old corrupted turns to dust.

It's not the dust or land that did not received the promise. . living people.

Hebrews 11:37-39 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;(Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise

 

[Eleanor]

Thank you for sharing your opinion. If you have an exegetical rebuttal I would be happy to continue.

No need to proceed any further.
You are denying the plain texts presented.

 

[Runningman]

No need to proceed any further.
You are denying the plain texts presented.

I do agree with the verses you showed me when they are separated from your commentary. If I may, do you believe Psalm 110:1 shows YHWH and Jesus are not the same person in plain text?

 

[Eleanor]

I do agree with the verses you showed me when they are separated from your commentary.

The texts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Paul (post #5) are apostolic commentary, not my commentary

If I may, do you believe Psalm 110:1 shows YHWH and Jesus are not the same person in plain text?

I interpret OT Scripture in the light of NT revelation.

Nor will I set Scripture against itself, but rather will believe the interpretations of the apostles in post #5 which reconciles Scripture to itself.

 

[Runningman]

The texts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Paul (post #5) are apostolic commentary, not my commentary

I interpret OT Scripture in the light of NT revelation.

Nor will I set Scripture against itself, but rather will believe the interpretations of the apostles in post #5 which reconciles Scripture to itself.

I believe when the Bible is interpreted it should be interpreted against itself within its own closed system of self-referencing truths. Think of the Bible as its own world and then after that compare it to the observable universe. For me that has been very useful for making sense of it all.

 

[Eleanor]

I believe when the Bible is interpreted it should be interpreted against itself within its own closed system of self-referencing truths. Think of the Bible as its own world and then after that compare it to the observable universe. For me that has been very useful for making sense of it all.

I don't see the Bible as ever against itself, I see it as fulfilling itself.

 

[Runningman]

I don't see the Bible as ever against itself, I see it as fulfilling itself.

Me too. Then I guess we agree Psalm 110:1 is in harmony with all of scripture.

Romans 8
34Who is there to condemn us? For Christ Jesus, who died, and more than that was raised to life, is at the right hand of God—and He is interceding for us.

1 Tim. 2
5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Seems quite explicit that Jesus is a man even decades after Jesus was carried to heaven when Paul wrote his letters.

Final question. Why, after requesting I reply to post #182, you said "I am willing at this point to address your refutation of only one presented in post #182." in post #202? I don't see your posts have really been a direct exegetically address to what I said.

 

[Mr GLee]

Not according to the text.

What does the text say ?

 

[Fred]

1 Tim. 2
5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Seems quite explicit that Jesus is a man even decades after Jesus was carried to heaven when Paul wrote his letters.

Christ Jesus is a man.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Christ Jesus is God.
Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.

 

[Mr GLee]

Christ Jesus is a man.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Christ Jesus is God.
Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.

Christ (anoint) Jesus (savor) is the anointing savior. .nothing to do with dying flesh of mankind

Son of man Jesus our brother in the Lord saved born again

Jesus said twice whosoever does the will of his Father in heaven the same is his brothers and sitters . being in a new kind of family. We call not man on earth Holy Father. ( Matthew 12:50 Mark 3:35


One God one mediator (god) our unseen Holy Father that worked in the Son of man Jesus .

I would paraphrase . . Not as I will (no power) but you Holy father you alone have the power to raise the dead to new spirit life I am simply used as a promised three day and night demonstration as to what the eyes cannot see .I delight to do the will of my Holy Father not seen

 

[Fred]

Christ (anoint) Jesus (savor) is the anointing savior. .nothing to do with dying flesh of mankind

Jesus is God (Titus 2:13).

 

[Eleanor]

Me too. Then I guess we agree Psalm 110:1 is in harmony with all of scripture.

Indeed!. . .including:

Mt 3:3 and Lk 1:67-68, 76 regarding Isa 40:3 that Jesus is the YHWH of whom the voice calling in the wilderness (John the Baptist) prepared the way.

Ro 10:9, 13 regarding Joel 2:32 where Paul teaches Jesus is the YHWH of Joel's prophecy that "everyone who calls on the name of YHWH will be saved."

Heb 1:6 regarding Dt 32:43 where Heb quotes Moses' song referring to YHWH and says it applies to Jesus.

Rev 1:12-18 regarding Isa 44:6, 48:12 where John says the man in the vision is Jesus (Jn 1:18, 2:8) who identifies himself as the First and the Last which is YHWH identification of himself.

Rev 21:6, 22:12-13 regarding Rev 1:8 where John says the man in the vision (Jesus) identifies himself as the Alpha and Omega of Rev 1:8, which is YHWH.

Rev 21:5-7 regarding Rev 20:11-13 where John says Jesus, the one on the throne (Rev 20:11-13 with Jn 5:22, 27, 9:39), is God (Rev 21:7).

Jn 1:3, Col 1:16-17, Heb 1:2b, 10 where John and Paul say the YHWH who created all things (Ge 1:1, Is 44:24, Jer 10:16) is Jesus.

To hear the apostles is to hear Jesus, and to reject the above teaching of the apostles is to reject the teaching of Jesus (Lk 10:16).

 

[Runningman]

Christ Jesus is a man.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Christ Jesus is God.
Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.

Person 1 = Great God
Person 2 = Savior Jesus

That's two different persons.