Yahweh 301,302 or Trinity 301,302

[Runningman]

You will find one divine Being, God, in three separate divine persons described in the following where
both Jesus and the Holy Spirit are God, and all three are presented in NT teaching from the beginning.

1) We have three separate persons (divine agents), Father, Son and Holy Spirit,
presented in the work of salvation:

a)--at its beginning (Luke 1:35),
-----at the inauguration of Jesus' public ministry (Matthew 3:16-17) and
-----in the work of atonement (Hebrews 9:14),

What Jesus received was the anointing of the Holy Spirit, not another God. Sometimes Holy Spirit refers to an anointing, but it can also refer directly to God the Father because God is Holy and God is Spirit, therefore God is the Holy Spirit. Different name for the same person, not an additional person.

Acts 10
37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.

b) the Holy Spirit completing the work (salvation) of the Father through the Son
(Acts 2:38-39; Romans 8:26; 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 1:3-14, Ephesians 2:13-22; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:2),

The gift of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2:38-39 isn't God. It refers to the same anointing Jesus received at John's water baptism of repentance in Acts 10:37-38. For example we cannot receive God as a gift who is our property. The anointing is the gift.

You can also read this again in Acts 1

4And while they were gathered together, He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss. 5For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

c) the only way to enter the kingdom of the Father (salvation) is through faith in the Son and regeneration by the Holy Spirit (John 3:1-15).

You must be born again which is born from above. yes, spiritual rebirth.

2) And Jesus shows the personhoods of three distinct and separate divine agents:

The Son is sent by the Father, in the Father's name (John 5:23, 36, 43).
The Spirit is sent by the Father in the Son's name (John 14:26).
The Spirit is subject to the Son as well as to the Father, for the Spirit is sent by the Son as well as the Father (John 15:26, 16:7, 14:26).

I think you're going a bit too far with the assumption because Jesus did say the Father is the only true God in John 17:3.

One doesn't send oneself, one sends another who is separate from oneself.

The Trinity--one God in three separate divine persons--is presented in NT teaching from the beginning.

And which Biblical description you can be expected to deny, just as you deny the apostolic testimony to the divinity of Jesus.

It's not about lack of Biblical testimony, its about lack of belief.

Indeed one does not send themselves and God isn't lesser than God, God is equal to God, but Jesus isn't.

John 17
3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

John 13
16Truly, truly, I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

 

[Runningman]

Next time try to actually address the passages I cited.
In fact, you totally dodged the entire Book of Romans.

Classic!

Romans is in harmony with Acts. If Acts 2 contradicts your claims then Romans also contradicts your claims. Scripture isn't against scripture, it's against what you're saying.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus is the LORD (Ro 10:9), the YHWH of Joel 2:32 (in Ro 10:13), upon whom everyone must call to be saved.

Psalm 110:1 says YHWH and Jesus aren't the same person. That should clear it up.

 

[Eleanor]

What Jesus received was the anointing of the Holy Spirit, not another God. Sometimes Holy Spirit refers to an anointing, but it can also refer directly to God the Father because God is Holy and God is Spirit, therefore God is the Holy Spirit. Different name for the same person, not an additional person.

Straw man. . .

 

[Fred]

Romans is in harmony with Acts.

Correct.
Romans 9:33 is in reference to Jesus.

 

[Eleanor]

Psalm 110:1 says YHWH and Jesus aren't the same person. That should clear it up.

Setting Scripture against itself never clears anything up, it's simply a dodge.

 

[Runningman]

Correct.
Romans 9:33 is in reference to Jesus.

Romans 10:9 is about God and Jesus. You putting the pieces together yet?

 

[Fred]

Romans 10:9 is about God and Jesus. You putting the pieces together yet?

You able to address Romans 9:33 yet?

 

[Runningman]

Straw man. . .

Setting Scripture against itself never clears anything up, it's simply a dodge.

Your position was refuted. If you have anything else please let me know.

 

[Eleanor]

Your position was refuted. If you have anything else please let me know.

Setting Scripture against itself is never refutation.

Assertion without Biblical demonstration is assertion without Biblical merit.

 

[Runningman]

You able to address Romans 9:33 yet?

I keep addressing everything you've said. Romans 9:33 is a quote of two different verses. It isn't about believing Jesus is YHWH. Read the old testament text the verse is quoted from. You won't find the proof for your assertions.

33as it is written:
“See, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling
and a rock of offense;

and the one who believes in Him
will never be put to shame.”

 

[Fred]

I keep addressing everything you've said. Romans 9:33 is a quote of two different verses. It isn't about believing Jesus is YHWH. Read the old testament text the verse is quoted from. You won't find the proof for your assertions.

33as it is written:
“See, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling
and a rock of offense;

and the one who believes in Him
will never be put to shame.”

The "Him" in Romans 9:33 refers to Jesus.

 

[Runningman]

Setting Scripture against itself is never refutation.

Assertion without Biblical demonstration is assertion without Biblical merit.

That isn't what I did.

 

[Fred]

Romans 10:9-11
(9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth "Jesus is Lord", and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
(10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
(11) For the Scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on Him shall not be disappointed.

The "Him" in Romans 10:11 connects back with the "Him" in Romans 10:9 - in reference to Jesus.


In fact, Paul made the same quote in reference to Jesus several passages earlier.
Romans 9:33
As it is written, Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense: and whosoever believeth on Him shall not be disappointed.

 

[Runningman]

The "Him" in Romans 9:33 refers to Jesus.

It's a quote to the below verses. It doesn't support your claim that Jesus is God.

Isaiah 28
16So this is what the Lord GOD says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation;
the one who believes will never be shaken.

Isaiah 8
14And He will be a sanctuary—
but to both houses of Israel
a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense,
to the dwellers of Jerusalem
a trap and a snare.

 

[Runningman]

Romans 10:9-11
(9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth "Jesus is Lord", and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
(10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
(11) For the Scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on Him shall not be disappointed.

The "Him" in Romans 10:11 connects back with the "Him" in Romans 10:9 - in reference to Jesus.

Jesus didn't raise himself from the dead. The God who raised Jesus is therefore not Jesus.

John 2
22After He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this. Then they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.

 

[Fred]

It's a quote to the below verses. It doesn't support your claim that Jesus is God.

Isaiah 28
16So this is what the Lord GOD says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation;
the one who believes will never be shaken.

Isaiah 8
14And He will be a sanctuary—
but to both houses of Israel
a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense,
to the dwellers of Jerusalem
a trap and a snare.

Romans 9:33 still refers to Jesus.
The same with Romans 10:11.

 

[Fred]

Jesus didn't raise himself from the dead.

Strawman.

 

[Runningman]

Strawman.

Haha there you go again saying "strawman" every time I unseat your claims.

 

[Fred]

Haha there you go again saying "strawman" every time I unseat your claims.

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/yahweh-301-302-or-trinity-301-302.1026/page-14#post-53703