Why do Calvinists debate?

[Mercy_Shown]

What do you think it means that God has repented ?

Repent In a penal way, to pay, atone, compensate, pay the price

He did not slip up and changed his mind. He changes not.

Exodus 32:14 And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people

1 Samuel 15:35
And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.

What do you think this verse means?

 

[Mr GLee]

1 Samuel 15:35
And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.

What do you think this verse means?

Hi thanks .
It was never the desire of God to have kings in Israel to begin with . Saul the people's choice. He was sorry he ever did permit Saul .. KIng David was his choice

 

[Mercy_Shown]

Hi thanks .
It was never the desire of God to have kings in Israel to begin with . Saul the people's choice. He was sorry he ever did permit Saul .. KIng David was his choice

But that is softening the text which says, "...the Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel" Samuel 9:15-17 states that the Lord chose Saul.

Sam 9:15 Now the day before Saul came, the Lord had revealed to Samuel: 16 “Tomorrow about this time I will send to you a man from the land of Benjamin, and you shall anoint him to be prince[c] over my people Israel. He shall save my people from the hand of the Philistines. For I have seen my people, because their cry has come to me.” 17 When Samuel saw Saul, the Lord told him, “Here is the man of whom I spoke to you! He it is who shall restrain my people.”

 

[Mr GLee]

But that is softening the text which says, "...the Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel" Samuel 9:15-17 states that the Lord chose Saul.

Sam 9:15 Now the day before Saul came, the Lord had revealed to Samuel: 16 “Tomorrow about this time I will send to you a man from the land of Benjamin, and you shall anoint him to be prince[c] over my people Israel. He shall save my people from the hand of the Philistines. For I have seen my people, because their cry has come to me.” 17 When Samuel saw Saul, the Lord told him, “Here is the man of whom I spoke to you! He it is who shall restrain my people.”

He choice Saul reluctantly.It was not his choice to have Kings in Israel in the first place. A form of blasphemy,the temporal things seen in the place of our invisible Holy Father the Holy Spirit of God .

In 1st Samuel 8 The unbelieving faithless Jew demanded of Samuel the apostle . . a King to reign over them Because of their jealousy of all the surrounding pagan nations. God gave them over until the time of first century reformation. There restoring the government of faith (the unseen working of God ) back to the period of Judges. . Judges . .. God sending out his apostles (sent messengers ) with prophecy as it is written (sola scriptura)

The restoring promise fulfilled below. Men and Women prophets from all the nations of the world declaring the gospel

Acts 2:16-17King James Version15 .But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Women from all the nations of the world could now be permitted to preach the gospel to the whole world . previously Under kingship government of dying mankind men's only club

A fifteen foot high wall separated the Jewish women from the men who performed the ceremonies. and another wall separated the Gentiles form the Jews A gospel explosion men and women from all the nations could now fellowship.

One new ceremonial law (1 Corinthians 11) The old shadows of the ceremonial laws diapered at the time of first century reformation.

The true women's lib. and mens and nations

 

[Mercy_Shown]

He choice Saul reluctantly.It was not his choice to have Kings in Israel in the first place. A form of blasphemy,the temporal things seen in the place of our invisible Holy Father the Holy Spirit of God .

In 1st Samuel 8 The unbelieving faithless Jew demanded of Samuel the apostle . . a King to reign over them Because of their jealousy of all the surrounding pagan nations. God gave them over until the time of first century reformation. There restoring the government of faith (the unseen working of God ) back to the period of Judges. . Judges . .. God sending out his apostles (sent messengers ) with prophecy as it is written (sola scriptura)

The restoring promise fulfilled below. Men and Women prophets from all the nations of the world declaring the gospel

Acts 2:16-17King James Version15 .But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Women from all the nations of the world could now be permitted to preach the gospel to the whole world . previously Under kingship government of dying mankind men's only club

A fifteen foot high wall separated the Jewish women from the men who performed the ceremonies. and another wall separated the Gentiles form the Jews A gospel explosion men and women from all the nations could now fellowship.

One new ceremonial law (1 Corinthians 11) The old shadows of the ceremonial laws diapered at the time of first century reformation.

The true women's lib. and mens and nations

Then would you also feel that he created man reluctantly? For the Bible records that he repented that he made man.

 

[Mr GLee]

Then would you also feel that he created man reluctantly? For the Bible records that he repented that he made man.

Yes he had sorrow knowing the end from the beginning.

He did not change the salvation program .He turned his sorrow into Joy.

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Repentance is a two fold work of God .Not of powerless dying mankind of our own self . First he gives us ears to hear, It turns us giving us power to perform the good works He works in us, with us (Philippian 2:13)

In the parable below he uses a Bullock as a unclean animal to represent non-believers

Jeremiah 31:18-20King James Version18 I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the Lord my God. Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

Eternal God does all the turning.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

What do you think it means that God has repented ?

Repent In a penal way, to pay, atone, compensate, pay the price

He did not slip up and changed his mind. He changes not.

Exodus 32:14 And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people

"Repent" doesn't have anything at all to do with "SIN". It simply means to STOP doing what you're doing, and then do something else .

Jesus "Repented" at John's baptism. HE WAS head of Mary's family (as the eldest SON in Joseph's absence, and maybe a professional carpenter). And He stopped being that, and began His earthly ministry, culminating in His perfect SIN OFFERING (Isa 53:10) on the Cross.

In God's case in several instances He was intending to do ONE thing, but didn't and did something else as the record shows (Ex 32:14 for example).

 

[GeneZ]

I have many times. probably even in this thread and you are responding to something that was posted way back in Dec. I will show you what the Bible says about it, which is where the Reformers found it.

John 3:1-14 (And if it too much for you to read, then don't argue against it.)
Ez 36:26
Romans 8:29-30
Eph 2:1-10

Whether or not it confuses some or many people is beside the point. If they are not going to go past the acronym to find out what it means and just stick with a gut reaction and attack the entire theology because of that gut reaction---that's on them.

The doctrine teaches that saving grace is effectually applied to those He has determined to save.


Is that scripture or conjecture. Conjecture is just confusing and usually a thousand miles off the mark.

They don't presume to be able to peer into God's mind and say how He does it. The how is not important. The what is what matters. It is only force in the minds of those who can't look at it any other way, and can only argue against it by going for an emotional reaction, rather than sound biblical exegesis and exposition. It is a stupid question.You are asking me to clear up something that doesn't exist in the doctrine. We are by nature turned away from God, and with the new birth, He turns us towards Him. He causes us to be reborn in Christ spiritually, whereas until He does that we are stuck in Adam. Sinners.

Calvinist always tell you what they believe and I am not going back through this whole thread but I would be willing to be if you read it from the beginning, you would find that to be the case.

Hope that helps.

thank you for your time....

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Hi thanks .
It was never the desire of God to have kings in Israel to begin with . Saul the people's choice. He was sorry he ever did permit Saul .. KIng David was his choice

God set out the rules for kings in Israel hundreds of years before Saul.
[Deu 17:14-15 LSB] 14 "When you enter the land which Yahweh your God gives you, and you possess it and live in it, and you say, 'I will set a king over me like all the nations who are around me,' 15 you shall surely set a king over you whom Yahweh your God chooses, [one] from among your brothers you shall set as king over yourselves; you may not put a foreigner over yourselves who is not your brother.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Because we are told to contend for the faith, keep it pure and true to it apostolic foundation. That is, theology and doctrine. If it is not, not only does the entire church suffer but the doors are opened to no end of false teachings with neither shepherd nor sheep equipped to spot the wolves in sheep's clothing. We see that has happened and we see when it overtook the church. With the so called death of Calvinism and the subsequent loss of sound doctrine to any old teaching that itchy ears flock to and fill the pews.

But the individual suffers also. It causes misinterpretations, misapplications, of many scriptures. Without the teachings found in Reformed theology which are based first and foremost on who God is, and the entire Bible systematically , with exegesis, and sound consistent hermeneutics, drawing forth the consistent truths found in the Scriptures, we miss a very high percentage of the glory and power of God and Christ's work in salvation that is available to us. Our growth is stunted and we believe many things that are never presented in the Bible.

And because few alive today began their Christian journey on solid footing but rather on a heresy, and all they know of it is their opinion of it, often given to them by their church, and that is that it is not only false but evil. Therefore they come on forums and spout these things as though they were the absolute truth which requires a response, correction, and clarification.

I also do it because I am teaching myself in the process. Better more accurately stated, God teaches me as I do it.

I don't know what you are referring to. But I would agree that the vast majority of things that are stated as fact in these (and other forums) are plain heresy and false church tradition. But what's worse is that I have not found a single person who actually has an open mind to consider that they might be wrong in what they believe.

 

[Arial]

I don't know what you are referring to. But I would agree that the vast majority of things that are stated as fact in these (and other forums) are plain heresy and false church tradition. But what's worse is that I have not found a single person who actually has an open mind to consider that they might be wrong in what they believe.

How do you know that if you do not know them and cannot see into their minds? And do you think it is not possible to know anything for sure? And do you think that if they can, and they do because they have done the work necessary to arrive there, is it your view that if they do not waver from that and change their mind, that they never learn new things, see more, without it changing those things they do know, that they have a closed mind.

 

[Arial]

thank you for your time....

Just so you know. No matter how many times, how many different people, and to how many people opposed to Calvinism, a Calvinist discusses the doctrine of Irresistible grace---those opposed will still continue to call it force. Even though it isn't force.

Hope that helps.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

How do you know that if you do not know them and cannot see into their minds? And do you think it is not possible to know anything for sure? And do you think that if they can, and they do because they have done the work necessary to arrive there, is it your view that if they do not waver from that and change their mind, that they never learn new things, see more, without it changing those things they do know, that they have a closed mind.

It is VERY obvious. Very, very obvious. And the hurling of insults, ad hominem attacks and statements saying they have no time to investigate "alternate" ideas. So very obvious.

 

[Arial]

It is VERY obvious. Very, very obvious. And the hurling of insults, ad hominem attacks and statements saying they have no time to investigate "alternate" ideas. So very obvious.

Then I guess it is obvious that you also have a closed mind. You, yourself began post #430 by saying you had no idea what the post you were responding to referred to, and yet thought it wise to step in as antagonistic school marm and point fingers at everyone else. So if you want to join the conversation, find out what those things you respond to refer to first. Ask questions if you must. But if you are not interested and do not want to investigate, then don't throw ad hominem attacks at everyone else. The fact that it is directed at everyone instead of a specific person does not mean it is not ad hominem.

 

[Mr GLee]

God set out the rules for kings in Israel hundreds of years before Saul.
[Deu 17:14-15 LSB] 14 "When you enter the land which Yahweh your God gives you, and you possess it and live in it, and you say, 'I will set a king over me like all the nations who are around me,' 15 you shall surely set a king over you whom Yahweh your God chooses, [one] from among your brothers you shall set as king over yourselves; you may not put a foreigner over yourselves who is not your brother.

It was not initiated by God. It was not Gods choice. He does not dwell in temples made with human. Believers are the living temple.

God had given them over to do that which they should not Those rules you offered were to set up for the kind of king, until the time first century reformation.

The elders were not called by God. They refused to live under the authority of an invisible King of King .A Pagan tradition (Oral) "What you see is all you get". ."out of sight out of mind" No faith as a labor of love coming from Christ the unseen eternal things of God.

1 San muel 4-10 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations .But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee. Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them. And Samuel told all the words of the Lord unto the people that asked of him a king.

Using the whole time period of Kings in Israel in a parable, the signified understanding using the temporal things seen as a shadow until the time of reformation. Those shadow used in ceremonial laws spoke of the suffering of Christ beforehand they disappeared' the glory had come. restoring the Government as in Judges. . . men and women prophets sent out as apostles from all the nations of the world.

Hebrew 9:8-10 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure (parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the "time of reformation".

Kings in Israel the abomination of desolation.

 

[Mr GLee]

"Repent" doesn't have anything at all to do with "SIN". It simply means to STOP doing what you're doing, and then do something else

It has every thing to do with sin . ..Repent stop sinning

Jeremiah 31:18-20King James Version18 I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the Lord my God.Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Then I guess it is obvious that you also have a closed mind. You, yourself began post #430 by saying you had no idea what the post you were responding to referred to, and yet thought it wise to step in as antagonistic school marm and point fingers at everyone else. So if you want to join the conversation, find out what those things you respond to refer to first. Ask questions if you must. But if you are not interested and do not want to investigate, then don't throw ad hominem attacks at everyone else. The fact that it is directed at everyone instead of a specific person does not mean it is not ad hominem.

LOL. That is not at all what I meant. You have misinterpreted my very clear statement by your false assumption. I said I don't know what your ad hominem statement could mean by lumping every Christian together as believing heresy. Wow. Just wow.

 

[GeneZ]

Just so you know. No matter how many times, how many different people, and to how many people opposed to Calvinism, a Calvinist discusses the doctrine of Irresistible grace---those opposed will still continue to call it force. Even though it isn't force.

Hope that helps.

Until you explain how it isn't force?
You will keep on begging for others to keep saying the same conclusion.

Surely you know how to explain it and make sense while you do?

Why do you keep withholding your wisdom to understand it, when you complain we do not understand?

I am waiting. How is irresistible grace in the Calvinism creed not forcing a choice?

If you can explain it? It would fill up that rabbit hole once and for all, preventing thousands of twisted ankles.

If I missed it? Give, please.. the post number where you did explain it.

thank you!

 

[Arial]

Until you explain how it isn't force?
You will keep on begging for others to keep saying the same conclusion.

Surely you know how to explain it and make sense while you do?

Why do you keep withholding your wisdom to understand it, when you complain we do not understand?

I am waiting. How is irresistible grace in the Calvinism creed not forcing a choice?

If you can explain it? It would fill up that rabbit hole once and for all, preventing thousands of twisted ankles.

If I missed it? Give, please.. the post number where you did explain it.

thank you!

You are just trolling. Here. Try to comprehend this:

Just so you know. No matter how many times, how many different people, and to how many people opposed to Calvinism, a Calvinist discusses the doctrine of Irresistible grace---those opposed will still continue to call it force. Even though it isn't force.

Hope that helps.

 

[Arial]

LOL. That is not at all what I meant. You have misinterpreted my very clear statement by your false assumption. I said I don't know what your ad hominem statement could mean by lumping every Christian together as believing heresy. Wow. Just wow.

Well, I don't do that and I didn't do that. Get back on topic. And stop with misrepresenting what I say so as to troll for an argument. Your whole post here is a straw man fallacy and ad hominem. Final warning.