WHEN IS A JEW NOT A JEW?

[Red Baker]

Continue from above.....

There was, then, a formal compact between God and man concerning obedience and disobedience, reward and punishment, and where there is a binding law pertaining to such matters and an agreement upon them by both parties concerned, there is a covenant ( cf. Gen. 21:27, and what precedes and follows Gen. 31:44 ). In this covenant Adam acted not as a private person for himself only, but as the representative of the whole of his posterity. In that capacity he served alone, Eve not being a federal head jointly with him, but was included in it, she being (later, we believe) formed out of him. In this Adam was a type of Christ, with whom God made the everlasting covenant, and who at the appointed time acted as the head and representative of His people: as it is written, "over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come" (Rom. 5:14).

The most conclusive proof that Adam did enter into a covenant with God on the behalf of his posterity is found in the penal evils which came upon the race in consequence of its head's disobedience. From the awful curse which passed upon all his posterity we are compelled to infer the legal relation which existed between Adam and them, for the judge of all the earth, being righteous, will not punish where there is no crime. "Wherefore as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that [or "in whom"] all sinned" (Rom. 5:12). Here is the fact, and from it we must infer the preceding cause of it: under the government of a righteous God, the suffering of holy beings unconnected with sin is an impossibility. It would be the very acme of injustice that Adam's sin should be the cause of death passing on all men, unless all men were morally and legally connected with him.

That Adam stood as the representative head of his race and transacted for them, and that all his posterity were contemplated by God as being morally and legally (as well as seminally) in Adam, is clear from almost everything that was said to him in the first three chapters of Genesis. The language there used plainly intimates that it was spoken to the whole human race, and not to Adam as a single individual, but spoken to them and of them. The first time "man" is mentioned it evidently signifies all mankind, and not Adam alone: "And God said, Let us make man and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowls of the air, and over the cattle, and over [not simply "the garden of Eden," but] all the earth" (Gen. 1:26). All men bear the name of their representative (as the church is designated after its head: 1 Cor. 12:12), for the Hebrew for "every man" in Psalm 39:5, 11 is "all Adam" -plain evidence of their being one in the eye of the law.

In like manner, what God said to Adam after he had sinned, was said to and of all mankind; and the evil to which he was doomed in this world, as the consequence of his transgression, equally falls upon his posterity: "Cursed is the ground for thy sake, in sorrow thou shalt eat of it all the days of thy life. In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground: for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return" (Gen. 3:17, 19). As this sentence "unto dust shalt thou return" did not respect Adam only, but all his descendants, so the same language in the original threat had respect unto all mankind: "in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." This is reduced to a certainty by the unequivo-cal declarations of Romans 5:12 and 1 Corinthians 15:22. The curse came upon all; so the sin must have been committed by all.

The terms of the covenant are related in or are clearly inferable from the language of Genesis 2:17. That covenant demanded perfect obedience as its condition. Nor was that in any way difficult: one test only was instituted by which that obedience was to be formally expressed; namely, abstinence from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God had endowed Adam, in his creation, with a perfect and universal rectitude (Eccl. 7:29), so that he was fully able to respond to all requirements of his maker. He had a full knowledge of God's will concerning his duty. There was no bias in him toward evil: having been created in the image and likeness of God, his affections were pure and holy (cf. Eph. 4:24). How simple and easy was the observance of the obligation! How appalling the consequences of its violation!

"The tendency of such a Divine precept is to be considered. Man is thereby taught, 1. that God is Lord of all things; and that it is unlawful for man even to desire an apple, but with His leave. In all things therefore, from the greatest to the least the mouth of the Lord is to be consulted, as to what He would, or would not have done by us. 2. That man's true happiness is placed in God alone, and nothing is to be desired but with submission to God, and in order to employ it for Him. So that it is He only, on whose account all things appear good and desirable to man. 3. Readily to be satisfied without even the most delightful and desirable things, if God so command: and to think there is much more good in obedience to the Divine precept than in the enjoyment of the most delightful thing in the world. 4. That man was not yet arrived at the utmost pitch of happiness, but to expect a still greater good, after his course of obedience was over. This was hinted by the prohibition of the most delightful tree, whose fruit was, of any other, greatly to be desired; and this argued some degree of imperfection in that state in which man was forbid the enjoyment of some good" (The Economy of the Covenants, H. Witsius, 1660).

Unto that prohibitive statute was annexed a promise. This is an essential element in a covenant: a reward being guaranteed upon its terms being fulfilled. So here: "In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shah surely die" necessarily implies the converse- "If thou eatest not thereof thou shalt surely live." Just as "Thou shalt not steal" inevitably involves "thou shalt conduct thyself honestly and honorably," just as "rejoice in the Lord" includes "murmur not against Him," so according to the simplest laws of construction the threatening of death as a consequence of eating, affirmed the promise of life to obedience. God will be no man's debtor: the general principle of "in keeping of them the divine commandments there is great reward" (Ps. 19:11) admits of no exception.

A certain good, a spiritual blessing, in addition to what Adam and Eve (and their posterity in him) already possessed, was assured upon his obedience. Had Adam been without a promise, he had been without a well-grounded hope for the future, for the hope which maketh not ashamed is founded upon the promise (Rom. 4:18, etc.). As Romans 7:10 so plainly affirms: "the commandment which was ordained to life," or more accurately (for the word ordained is supplied by the translators) "the commandment which was unto life" -having life as the reward for obedience. And again, "the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them" (Gal. 3:12). But the law was "weak through the flesh" (Rom. 8:3), Adam being a mutable, fallible, mortal creature.

Against what has been said above it is objected, Adam was already in possession of spiritual life; how, then, could life be the reward promised for his obedience? It is true that Adam was in the enjoyment of spiritual life, being completely holy and happy; but he was on probation, and his response to the test God gave him-his obedience or disobedience to His command-would determine whether that spiritual life would be continued or whether it would be forfeited. Had Adam complied with the terms of the covenant, then he would have been confirmed in his creature standing, in the favor of God toward him, in communion with his maker, in the happy state of an earthly paradise; he would then have passed beyond the possibility of apostasy and misery. The reward, or additional good, which would have followed Adam's obedience was a state of inalienable blessedness both for himself and his posterity. In debited to A.W. Pink

 

[Red Baker]

I'd die for what I believe God has given me with regard to His Word. When God REVEALS His Word to my mind I receive it. I don't do what others do and ignore His Word, or try to explain a Scripture away, or down-right reject His Word. Those that do that are as Adam: Disobedient. And they will be dealt with by the Living God. You can believe THAT!

That does not make your doctrine true, by your feelings and willing to do ~ it must be support by scriptures to be true, and worthy of being accepted by the saints.

Here, a test Scripture. Tell me if you believe and accept God's Word when He says through brother Peter:

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:3–4.

It says the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment. Do you agree with the Holy Spirit?

Jeremiah, I believe every word of Peter, and also know how to give those scriptures their proper sense.

2 Peter 2:4

"For if God spared not the angles that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto the judgement."

"For if God spared not the angels that sinned"~By whom are meant the devil and his angels; who are spirits created by God and as such were good; their first estate which they left was pure and holy, as well as high and honourable; they, were at first in the truth, though they abode not in it; they were once among the morning stars and sons of God, and were angels of light; their numbers are many, and therefore are here expressed in the plural number, "angels", though it cannot be said how large, a number that cannot be counted.

"God spared not"~ Notwithstanding the dignity and excellency of their nature, in strict justice, and awful severity, without any mercy, inflicted due punishment on them; wherefore it cannot be thought that false teachers, who, as they, abide not in the truth, but deny and oppose it, should escape the vengeance of God, for they will not.

"but cast them down to hell"~In what sense are we to understand the word hell as used by Peter? It cannot be understood as the lake of fire, for that is after the judgment~for which they are reserved for...which is to come, as is evident by even the angels themselves:

Matthew 8:29

"And behold they cried out saying, What have we to do with thee Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?"

They know that there is a day appointed for them to be judge and then cast into the lake of fire, or into the deep, as used by Mark and Luke.

Also, the world is full of evil spirits as is evident by many scriptures in the NT, and in the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Hell in this scripture is explain to us by Peter as he said these words:

"and delivered them into chains of darkness"~When they left their first estate, by sinning, God Almighty delivered them into chains of darkness~which means their sins left them under the guilt of sin, which is the power of darkness, and in black despair; shutting them up in unbelief, impenitence, and hardness of mind; being holden with the cords of their sins, and in the most dreadful state of bondage and captivity to their lusts, in just judgment on them; and in the most miserable and uncomfortable condition, being driven from the realms of light, deprived of the face and presence of God, in the utmost horror and trembling, and fearful looking for of judgment, and fiery indignation to consume them; and in utter darkness, without the least glimmering of light, joy, peace, and comfort; and where there is nothing but weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth; and being also under the restraints of the power and providence of God, and not able to stir or move, or do anything without divine permission; and being likewise, by the everlasting, unalterable, and inscrutable purposes and decrees of God, appointed to everlasting wrath and destruction; by which they are consigned and bound over to it, and held fast, that they cannot escape it! They are there~

"to be reserved unto judgment"~And judge they shall be! By Jesus Christ and his saints. This is the prison of hell in which they are now suffering under, there waiting for that great day of the wrath of Almighty God. This hell, they will never escape from, they are forever under this chains of darkness and deception in which they are now living under. Their final abode will be destruction in the lake of fire and brimstone.

Coming back to finish....RB

 

[Red Baker]

There is no "serpent." Could be the "worm" but the woman's temptation was from within, not from without:

Jeremiah, you are so far out into left field you many never find your way to the truth.

Adam's temptation came through Satan who beguiled Eve. It was a serpent used by Satan to deceive Eve. A curse was pronounced on both the serpent because he was used of Satan and Satan himself! How in the world can you honestly say that woman's temptation came from within based on these scriptures:

2nd Corinthians 11:3~"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.:

Genesis 3:1~"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

And you have the boldness to say that Eve's temptation came from within! The same evil spirit that deceived Eve has worked on your heart as well !

Genesis 3:15~"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Romans 16:20~"And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen."

Enough on this, I'm stopping for the day.

 

[Red Baker]

Same thing happened to Jesus in the desert being tempted. It was from within, not without. When you are tempted do you pass blame to someone else? The "devil made me do it"?

I'm coming back tomorrow to address this point.

 

[Mr GLee]

So, both of you are Sadducees who did not believe spirits and angels. I'll answer both posts later this afternoon, the Lord willing, and I think he is!

To Mr. GLee and Jeremiah~“Hasta la vista, baby!”

Hasta la vista ?

I believe spirits of the prophet's \apostles are messengers of God. How beautiful are their feet shod with the gospel of Christ. Still sends them out two by two.

Two is the number that God has spoken through the Son of man . "let there be mankind" and it as testimony of the faith of God "It was good."

Three is a crowd two walking together according to the understanding of the one Holy Father . . .the key.

From the imaginations of one's heart comes an invisible creation that some call angels as dismoded workers with familiar spirits the non-venerable ones must called patron saints. (3500 and rising)

The same kind Rachel hid from her father as image idols needed to commune with dead relative or famous religious people. or Saul when God cut off all forms of communication and he sought after dead Samael. Teaching they are closer by many miles to our Holy Father. Patron saint's workers with familiar spirts.

The abomination od desolation making sola scriptura without effect. Not angels no such creation.

2 Kings 23: 24 Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book (sola scriptura) that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the Lord.

No patron saints, no queen of heaven. . Another gospel coming from false apostles .They follow their own law written in their own book of Catholic fathers just like the unbelieving Jewish fathers. (Pharisees with Sadducees put aside their differences in a hope of making the faith of Christ as it is written (sola scriptura) to no effect . . . . by and through I heard it through the legion of dying father's grapevine.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

So, when is a Jew not a Jew?

When "he" has no FAITH in GOD.

Next question??

 

[Mr GLee]

The only thing God did not do for our first parents was to secure them in the state which he created them as he did the elect angels ~ some of them he did not, but, He left them to their own will, and no sooner than he did, they sinned and so did man ~ for there is only One uncreated Being that is immutable and his name is JEHOVAH, the LORD GOD of heaven and earth.

There is one eternal Spirit. He remains without father or mother beginning of fleshly life or end thereof.

Jehovah one of many immutable attributes of God whose name is Jealous. . . he owns all and will not share his glory with dying mankind under a curse to die once.

Jehovah another way like Jesus or Jousha to declare Almighty God has become our savior

Isaiah 12:2 Behold, God is (Nnot will be) my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the Lord Jehovah is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.. . . . .(Josha Jesus )

 

[jeremiah1five]

Which angels sinned? Lying spirits of false apostles are not subject to salivation. If you meant messenger the true meaning of the Greek word Angelos and not the fake word angel ,coined sentries later. Some went out from the true prophets( us) and developed the religion worshiping dying mankind oral traditions making the His excusive traditons As is it written to no effect though I heard it (lies) through the dying fathers grapevine .

There are only angels and man in creation.
Everything else you mention is vanity in the minds of ignorant men.

 

[Red Baker]

Hasta la vista ?

I'll be back.

I believe spirits of the prophet's \apostles are messengers of God. How beautiful are their feet shod with the gospel of Christ. Still sends them out two by two.

So do I, and I still believe in angels, based upon the word of God and its own Author's testimony. Do you know him?

Genesis 32:1,2~“And Jacob went on his way, and the angels of God met him. And when Jacob saw them, he said, This is God’s host: and he called the name of that place Mahanaim.”

2nd Kings 6:16,17~“And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them. And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.”

2nd Kings 35~“And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.”

Psalm 34:7~“The angel of the LORD encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them.”

Hebrews 1:14~“Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?”

Angels Are a Matter of Faith​

Most men live by their five senses, never grasping anything more important than what they can see, hear, taste, smell, or touch. They never think higher than a newspaper or a hotdog.

Seeing may be believing for temporal things of life, but faith overrides sight ( 2nd Corinthians 5:7 ). It is the duty and privilege of believers to look on invisible, eternal things ( 2nd Corinthians 4:8 ).

Men that live by their senses only are no better than brute beasts, yet will face God for it. Most men are so arrogantly ignorant that they deny God and His angels for absolute insanity. They despise and ridicule a Creator and angels to defend a big bang and baboon mothers. They reject the Bible history for hallucinations of Confucius, Nostradamus, Darwin, etc. They preach and sing Deistic heresy that God watches from a distance, denying watchers! They foolishly presume planes, bombs, ships, missiles, submarines, and guns win wars. They rather watch men run and jump with a ball than learn about angels and their power!

Faith in God’s word is absolutely necessary to have evidence of unseen angels ( Hebrews 11:1 ). Angels are not seen unless (a) God opens eyes specially or (b) they assume visible forms. For those believing God’s ability and word, we may have full persuasion ( Romans 4:17-21 ).

We believe the Bible is God’s word by faith He has given us and its internal evidence. The Bible is filled with much evidence of angels and their involvement in the affairs of men. The singular word angel occurs 194 times and the plural form angels 92 times for 286.

But there are also hundreds of uses of host, hosts, host of heaven, heavenly host, army of heaven, sons of God, morning stars, living creatures, seraphims, cherubims, chariots of God, horses and chariots of fire, chariot of Israel, horsemen, spirit, spirits, saints, watcher, watchers, man, men, holy ones, archangel, principalities, powers, authorities, thrones, might, dominion, man of God, Gabriel, Michael, etc.

As any topic, we want the crown of the road, hating ditches on any side ( Deuteronomy 5:32; Proverbs 21:16 ). There is the ditch of Catholicism and others that exalt angels too high and worship them. There is your ditch of Sadducees and such that neglect or reject reality of angels ( Acts 23:8 ).

Some have tried to show their voluntary humility by exalting creatures lower than God, yet we must avoid intruding into subjects like angels beyond our ability ( Colossian 2:18,19 ). The writer of Hebrews chose to defer detailed explanation of the cherubims on the mercyseat ( Hebrews 9:5 )

We choose with David not to exercise ourselves in things too high for us ( Psalms 131:1 ). Yet, we admit and honor the frequent mention of angels and their activities recorded for us. God has chosen for His own reasons ~ His own glory ~ to create angels and employ them. We know by revelation that seeing our salvation turns to His glory ( Ephesians 3:10; 1st Peter 1:12 ) Anything angels do, God could do it more easily, but He chose to employ angels to do it. Is safety of the LORD ( Proverbs 21:31 ) or by the angel of the LORD ( Psalms 34:7 ) ? Yes! and glory! Do angels punish men ( Ezekiel 9:1-11 or is the Lord by chastening ( 1st Corinthians 11 )? Yes! Did angels take Lazarus to heaven ( Luke 16:22 )) or does the Lord take spirits ( Acts 7)?

God chose to use angels ~ we should see them unmentioned in the Bible and in our lives. Consider a little military history from the Bible that West Point grads know nothing about. There were more angels protecting Elisha than Syrians surrounding him ( 2nd Kings 4:17,17 ) One angel easily killed 185,000 Assyrian soldiers surrounding Jerusalem, and God sent this angel after Hezekiah reminded the Jews of Elisha’s event ( 2nd Kings 19:35; 2nd Chronicles 32:7 ) A prophet gave us a glimpse into heaven at an angelic strategy meeting (1st Kings 22:19-23 )

Think four empires – Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome ( Daniel 2:26-40; 7:3-7; 8:8,20-22 ); yet few know that angels ~ bad and good ~ influenced those empires ( Daniel 10:13, 20-21 ) Nebuchadnezzar learned God ruled in the army of heaven – the angelic host ( Daniel 4:35); he also knew it was angels – watchers and holy ones – that judged him ( Daniel 4:13,17 )

As New Testament Christians in the kingdom of God, we are in close fellowship with countless angels, who were created to be our servants ( Hebrews 1:1:7,14; 12:22-24; Daniel 7:26,26 )

Children have angels; we worship with angels; angels will carry us in chariots to heaven.

They describe themselves as our brethren, though not of our nature ( Revelation 19:19; 22:8,9 )

You are part of the largest megachurch in the universe ~ general assembly ( Hebrew 12).

God is the LORD of hosts in the Bible, for He is supreme Lord and King of angelic armies. Note LORD’s host (2), LORD of hosts (235), God of hosts (39), and Lord of Sabaoth (2).

Consider a few places ( Proverbs 24:10; Isaiah 6:3; 8:13; 37:16; 54:5; Jeremiah 32:18 Zechariah 1:3; Malachi 1:14 )

When God hides us in His pavilion, you should be able to see the army that surrounds it! LORD of hosts from Hebrew to Greek to English is Lord of Sabaoth ( Romans 9:28; James 5:4 )

After ascending to heaven, Jesus was promoted over all angels ( 1st Peter 3:22; Ephesians 1:20-22 ) They were created by Him and for Him, and they worship Him ( Colossians 1:16; Revelation 5:11,12 ).

Not everything called an “angel” in the Bible must refer to the created spirits of this study.

Angels are sometimes referred to metaphorically or hyperbolically for comparison (1st Samuel 29:9; 2nd 14:17,20; 19:27; Psalms 78:25; 1st Corinthians 13:1; Galatians 4:14 )

 

[Red Baker]

From the imaginations of one's heart comes an invisible creation that some call angels as dismoded workers with familiar spirits the non-venerable ones must called patron saints. (3500 and rising)

The same kind Rachel hid from her father as image idols needed to commune with dead relative or famous religious people. or Saul when God cut off all forms of communication and he sought after dead Samael. Teaching they are closer by many miles to our Holy Father. Patron saint's workers with familiar spirts.

The abomination od desolation making sola scriptura without effect. Not angels no such creation.

You have the scriptures presented to you in the above post, address them.

 

[Red Baker]

There is one eternal Spirit. He remains without father or mother beginning of fleshly life or end thereof.

Jehovah one of many immutable attributes of God whose name is Jealous. . . he owns all and will not share his glory with dying mankind under a curse to die once.

Jehovah another way like Jesus or Jousha to declare Almighty God has become our savior

Isaiah 12:2 Behold, God is (Nnot will be) my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the Lord Jehovah is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.. . . . .(Josha Jesus )

What does all this have to do with:

Red Baker said:
The only thing God did not do for our first parents was to secure them in the state which he created them as he did the elect angels ~ some of them he did not, but, He left them to their own will, and no sooner than he did, they sinned and so did man ~ for there is only One uncreated Being that is immutable and his name is JEHOVAH, the LORD GOD of heaven and earth.

?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Part one.....
Jeremiah,
God didn't create Adam a sinner, if that is what you are attempting to say. God made man upright, after his own image in righteousness, knowledge, and understanding.

Either Adam was created sinful or he was created sinless (like Christ.)
Which is it?
And the word translated "upright" merely means "straight."

God created man very good, according to his own testimony, which you are saying just the opposite.

The word "good" means "good [enough"] or "to specification."
There is no morality in this word.

Here the expression is stronger upon the creation of man, the chief and principal work of God, that it was "very good"; contrary to what you believe; he being made upright and holy,

He sinned. So, sin comes from holy, then.

bearing the image of his Creator within him, and in such circumstances as to be happy and comfortable himself with the power to know right from wrong, and the power to judge righteously by being free from indwelling sin, so that he could glorify his Creator; in a perfect world, with the most beautiful woman that ever lived in this world, a woman created by the same God that created him.

All Adam knew was "good."
The Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil was used of God to give him the KNOWLEDGE of his evil [side of him.]

God only gave him one commandment to keep~all that was before Adam, was in subjection to him ~ what more could he had desire?

The Law/Command shows we are sinners. Where there is no Law there is no sin, Saul said.
There was a Law/Command in the Garden of "thou shalt not [eat of it} thus showing Adam was a sinner before any act of sin. Sin does come from sinner just as wickedness come from the wicked (1 Sam. 24:13.)
And today, sin STILL comes from sinner.

The only thing God did not do for our first parents was to secure them in the state which he created them as he did the elect angels ~ some of them he did not, but, He left them to their own will, and no sooner than he did, they sinned and so did man ~ for there is only One uncreated Being that is immutable and his name is JEHOVAH, the LORD GOD of heaven and earth.

Again, if Adam was created sinless and he sinned, then sin comes from sinlesness.
God is sinless. How long before God sin since sin comes from sinlessness?

Let us now remind ourselves of the essential elements of a covenant. Briefly stated, any covenant is a mutual agreement entered into by two or more parties, whereby they stand solemnly bound to each other to perform the conditions contracted for. Amplifying that definition, it may be pointed out that the terms of a covenant are (1) there is a stipulation of something to be done or given by that party proposing the covenant; (2) there is a re-stipulation by the other party of something to be done or given in consideration; (3) those stipulations must be lawful and right, for it can never be right to engage to do wrong; (4) there is a penalty included in the terms of agreement, some evil consequence to result to the party who may or shall violate his agreement-that penalty being added as a security.

There is Covenant promises that God makes independent of any mutual contract.
In other words, God makes covenant promises irrespective of the other party's involvement to any stipulations or responsibilities. Such as the Abrahamic Covenant in Genesis 17. There is no stipulation on Abraham's part or his descendants of faith.

A covenant then is a disposition of things, an arrangement concerning them, a mutual agreement about them. But again we would remind the reader that words are but arbitrary things; and we are never safe in trusting to a single term, as though from it alone we could collect the right knowledge of the thing. No, our inquiry is into the thing itself. What are the matters of fact to which these terms are applied? Was there any moral transaction between God and Adam wherein the above mentioned four principles were involved? Was there any proposition made by God to man of something to be done by the latter? any stipulation of something to be given by the former? any agreement of both? any penal sanction? To such interrogations every accurate observer of the contents of Genesis 1 to 3 must answer affirmatively.

Again, you're using man's concept of covenant/agreement.
Abraham was asleep when God made covenant with Himself.

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" ( Genesis 2:17 ). Here are all the constituent elements of a covenant: (1) there are the contracting parties, the Lord God and man; (2) there is a stipulation enjoined, which man ( as he was duty bound ) engaged to perform; (3) there was a penalty prescribed, which would be incurred in case of failure; (4) there was by clear and necessary implication a reward promised, to which Adam would be entitled by his fulfillment of the condition; (5) the "tree of life" was the divine seal or ratification of the covenant, as the rainbow was the seal of the covenant which God made with Noah. Later, we shall endeavor to furnish clear proof of each of these statements.

Well and good.
The Abrahamic Covenant is made with Abram the Hebrew, and later the Mosaic Covenant was made with the children of Israel. No Gentiles are mentioned nor involved.
God made no covenant with any Gentile or seeds of Gentiles.
God's covenants is with a particular family and his descendants, specifically, with Jews/Israel - No Gentiles.

"We here have, in the beginning of the world, distinctly placed before us, as the parties to the covenant, the Creator and the creature, the Governor and the governed. In the covenant itself, brief as it is, we have concentrated all those primary, anterior, and eternal principles of truth, righteousness, and justice, which enter necessarily into the nature of the great God, and which must always pervade His government, under whatever dispensation; we have a full recognition of His authority to govern His intelligent creatures, according to these principles, and we have a perfect acknowledgment on the part of man, that in all things he is subject, as a rational and accountable being, to the will and direction of the infinitely wise and benevolent Creator. No part of a covenant therefore, in its proper sense, is wanting" (R. B. Howell, The Covenant, 1855).

OK. Howell is using man's concept of 'covenant.'
God can and has made promises to Israel not requiring any responsibilities from Israel. One-sided promises. Like the Davidic Covenant. God required nothing from David in this covenant in placing his descendant(s) on the throne.
One-sided.

 

[Mr GLee]

So do I, and I still believe in angels, based upon the word of God and its own Author's testimony. Do you know him?

The word of God does not speak a invisible creation hidden (a figment of one's imagination) Its Christ in us hallow be His name.Not hallow be their name. No angels working in us just God's bringing His living messages as it is written.

The English translation of the Greek Angelos is "messenger" Not "angel" fake word coined to represent disembodied worker with a familiar spirits .

That's the Catholic thing to serve dead creatures called patron saints They must continued to seek the dead even after their last breath .

We serve our Holy Father in heaven the only invisible being without beginning of days or end of life

Same with the Hebrew word "Malach" meaning "Messenger" not "angel" a fake word . How beautiful are the feet of the apostles (messengers)

 

[Hobie]

The way I see it, depending on your heart determines what part of prophesy will be fulfilled though you. Lord I pray I always remain on the right side of you! Prophecy is put out by the Lord and each vessel is the prophecy in action. Be humble pray always.

Many Christians fail to see what they have on their hearts, and listen to Christ when it comes to how to treat others..

Matthew 7:5
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

[Mr GLee]

The word "good" means "good [enough"] or "to specification."
There is no morality in this word.

Hi I would offer you cannot just make up stuff and call it the gospel

No good means God good perfect complete .The "let there be" and "it was good" .Good is attributed to our unseen Holy Father alone after the completion of each day

God is not a man as us . .dying mankind under a curse to die once..

Why would you continue to try and make God into a man would be my question?

Even the Son of man Jesus refused to sit in the seat of the abomination of desolation .Making God the Faithful Creator into a dying creation (blasphemy )

Mark 10:16-18King James Version And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.
And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

 

[jeremiah1five]

That does not make your doctrine true, by your feelings and willing to do ~ it must be support by scriptures to be true, and worthy of being accepted by the saints.

I've supported my position just as Martin Luther supported his belief of justification by faith to the Grand Poobah himself, the Pope. He, too, held a minority view and belief of Scripture that in time has become one of the cornerstones of the Doctrines of Grace.
Good job, Marty.

Jeremiah, I believe every word of Peter, and also know how to give those scriptures their proper sense.

2 Peter 2:4

"For if God spared not the angles that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto the judgement."

"For if God spared not the angels that sinned"~By whom are meant the devil and his angels; who are spirits created by God and as such were good; their first estate which they left was pure and holy, as well as high and honourable; they, were at first in the truth, though they abode not in it; they were once among the morning stars and sons of God, and were angels of light; their numbers are many, and therefore are here expressed in the plural number, "angels", though it cannot be said how large, a number that cannot be counted.

"God spared not"~ Notwithstanding the dignity and excellency of their nature, in strict justice, and awful severity, without any mercy, inflicted due punishment on them; wherefore it cannot be thought that false teachers, who, as they, abide not in the truth, but deny and oppose it, should escape the vengeance of God, for they will not.

"but cast them down to hell"~In what sense are we to understand the word hell as used by Peter? It cannot be understood as the lake of fire, for that is after the judgment~for which they are reserved for...which is to come, as is evident by even the angels themselves:

Hell is the grave where they are kept, just like men who die without Christ are kept until the resurrection.

Matthew 8:29

"And behold they cried out saying, What have we to do with thee Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?"

They know that there is a day appointed for them to be judge and then cast into the lake of fire, or into the deep, as used by Mark and Luke.

That's what you think. It doesn't say what "time."
The man had a mental disease and Jesus healed him so that he was found after his healing with Jesus and "in his RIGHT MIND."

Also, the world is full of evil spirits as is evident by many scriptures in the NT, and in the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Hell in this scripture is explain to us by Peter as he said these words:

There are only three "spirits" the gift of discerning of spirits discerns:
1. the spirit of God's angels
2. the spirit of man
3. the Spirit of God.
Once God cleared the field by casting the angels that sinned to their place of reservation He was free to create man.
All the evil in the world is the result of man. Or haven't you read:

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Gen. 6:4–5.

"and delivered them into chains of darkness"~When they left their first estate, by sinning, God Almighty delivered them into chains of darkness~which means their sins left them under the guilt of sin, which is the power of darkness, and in black despair; shutting them up in unbelief, impenitence, and hardness of mind; being holden with the cords of their sins, and in the most dreadful state of bondage and captivity to their lusts, in just judgment on them; and in the most miserable and uncomfortable condition, being driven from the realms of light, deprived of the face and presence of God, in the utmost horror and trembling, and fearful looking for of judgment, and fiery indignation to consume them; and in utter darkness, without the least glimmering of light, joy, peace, and comfort; and where there is nothing but weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth; and being also under the restraints of the power and providence of God, and not able to stir or move, or do anything without divine permission; and being likewise, by the everlasting, unalterable, and inscrutable purposes and decrees of God, appointed to everlasting wrath and destruction; by which they are consigned and bound over to it, and held fast, that they cannot escape it! They are there~

I see how your author mixes up Scripture meant for and describe men with the angels that sinned that were placed in the "Time-Out" box until judgment. Angels don't shed tears. Why would they be indignant. Those are qualities assigned to man.

"to be reserved unto judgment"~And judge they shall be! By Jesus Christ and his saints. This is the prison of hell in which they are now suffering under, there waiting for that great day of the wrath of Almighty God. This hell, they will never escape from, they are forever under this chains of darkness and deception in which they are now living under. Their final abode will be destruction in the lake of fire and brimstone.
Coming back to finish....RB

 

[jeremiah1five]

Jeremiah, you are so far out into left field you many never find your way to the truth.

I am right where God has ordained me to be.

Adam's temptation came through Satan who beguiled Eve.

First, the man wasn't tempted.
Second, the Word of Truth teaches that temptation is from within, when one is drawn away of his own lust and enticed (James 1:14), the same way Jesus was tempted in the desert.

It was a serpent used by Satan to deceive Eve. A curse was pronounced on both the serpent because he was used of Satan and Satan himself! How in the world can you honestly say that woman's temptation came from within based on these scriptures:

Can't be. The angels that sinned are all locked up in the "Time-Out" box awaiting judgment.

And you have the boldness to say that Eve's temptation came from within! The same evil spirit that deceived Eve has worked on your heart as well !

The angels that sinned are locked up. And there are not two ways of temptation just one.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:14.

Enough on this, I'm stopping for the day.

 

[jeremiah1five]

When "he" has no FAITH in GOD.

Next question??

Clang! Clang!
Wrong answer.
No more questions. You don't study.
Clang! Clang! Clang!

 

[Mr GLee]

I've supported my position just as Martin Luther supported his belief of justification by faith to the Grand Poobah himself, the Pope. He, too, held a minority view and belief of Scripture that in time has become one of the cornerstones of the Doctrines of Grace.
Good job, Marty.

I think you should slow down before you start believing God is still brining new revelations Like James Jones, Charles Manson or any other seduced by the father of lies a murder beginning with Cain and Abel the first prophet martyred. A serial murderer from the beginning hating all flesh. (God creation)

The last living abiding word was given sealed with 7 seals til to end of time .Revelation remains the last chapter in the Book of Prophecy Satan the one with all power as the kings of lyings signs to wonder after will be permitted to deceive those who reject sola scriptura as the one reforming authority.

Satan spirit of the antichrists'. . false prophets, false apostles .

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I am not accusing. . just a warning to be careful how we can hear God not seen Remember Satan the god of this world offers all the kingdoms and all the glory if we simply ignore do not add or subtract from the perfect, sealed with seven seals of perfection .

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Clang! Clang!
Wrong answer.
No more questions. You don't study.
Clang! Clang! Clang!

There's a difference between being an "Ethnic Jew" (who may be "just another lost sinner"), and a "Spiritual Jew" who's become part of God's PROVISION for the cleansing of your SIN.