WHEN IS A JEW NOT A JEW?

[Shulammite]

The end of the age........Hmmmm? What does this really mean? What is the Revelation of Christ and what is that "certain time of peace" spoken of by the mother of Christ and revealed in Isaiah and the Book of Revelation? Inquiring minds want to know.

Hebrews 8: By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete, and aging will soon disappear.

This is the end of the age for the OC. Those of it, those who profess it and insist it still stands will disappear and be consummate to the earth. And what you eat on earth that is not Christian doctrine, those who reject Yeshua ha Mashiach will digest below- in hell, what they ate above- on earth. There is salvation only in Yeshua (Jesus) for both Jew and Gentile. If not in Him all will perish in what is at hand and still yet, what even more terrible things are to come.
Matthew 28:
The Great Commission
…19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

The OC thumpers are at the end of the line and about to be no more.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Jesus was man in one true biblical sense.

Jesus was a man in the human sense.
It's only written in the bible.

Jesus' temptation was not from any inward lust, as fallen man is tempted. He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh, to condemn sin in the flesh, and he perfectly did so. Sin was not in his flesh. There was no sinful lust working in him secretly as it does in our fallen nature.

Jesus' temptation was from within Himself as James says temptation comes from.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:14.

His temptation as is ours comes from within us just as James says.

There are not two ways of temptation, one for Jesus one and for us peasants.

Jesus' temptations came directly from without through the working of Satan working in all three avenues which sin works in our members ~ even during our most spiritual acts of serving God.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:14.

If one carefully reads Matthew 4 where Jesus was tempted by the Devil, he came at Jesus in all three of these avenues, with no success.

I have more to say, but I want you to address this first so we can move forward.

Devil? You mean the angel that sinned? Can't be. They're all locked up awaiting judgment:

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2 Peter 2:3–4.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You just cannot make up things as it goes along There will be no new revelations

Scripture is the Revelation spoken of that we are not to add or subtract from .

You have a false idea what the living word of God is , God is not a Hebrew man . During the first century reformation when the veil was rent there was no jewish King of kings sitting in the Holy of Holies. Satan could not longer seduce the whole world to believe God is a Hebrew man Satan fell as recorded in chapter 20 .he will be loosed for a short while to again deceive mankind that God is a Jewish man.

Why not preach the gospel of Christ eternal God and not the false gospel on temporal dying mankind as oral traditions ? What kind of reward are you seeking after ?


.Revelation 20;1-3 King James Version And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Everything in Scripture is revealed and belongs to us.
And how much is understood is God's prerogative to allowing how much light to understand His Word.
There is still a great deal in the Hebrew Scriptures God still needs to reveal to His people.
Biblical doctrine wasn't built in a day.

 

[Red Baker]

Jesus' temptation was from within Himself as James says temptation comes from.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:14.

His temptation as is ours comes from within us just as James says.

There are not two ways of temptation, one for Jesus one and for us peasants.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:14.

Jesus had no inward lust contrary to the law of God. He was tempted in all points as we are, but, his faith in God as a man, was perfect, and those temptations got no further than his strong faith shielded them from enticing him. Those temptations did not drawn him toward disobeying God's royal law as the standard by which holy men walk to please God. He never gave a second thought of disobeying God, never. He never wrestle with sin, but triumph over every temptation by living by every word that came from the mouth of God. In Jesus Christ, MAN defeated the power of darkness by living by every word of God, inwardly from his heart.

1st John 3:8~"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

And destroyed them he did! Every fiery darts thrown at him.

Devil? You mean the angel that sinned? Can't be. They're all locked up awaiting judgment:

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2 Peter 2:3–4.

Once more.....

2 Peter 2:4

"For if God spared not the angles that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto the judgement."

"For if God spared not the angels that sinned"~By whom are meant the devil and his angels; who are spirits created by God and as such were good; their first estate which they left was pure and holy, as well as high and honourable; they, were at first in the truth, though they abode not in it; they were once among the morning stars and sons of God, and were angels of light; their numbers are many, and therefore are here expressed in the plural number, "angels", though it cannot be said how large, a number that cannot be counted.

"God spared not"~ Notwithstanding the dignity and excellency of their nature, in strict justice, and awful severity, without any mercy, inflicted due punishment on them; wherefore it cannot be thought that false teachers, who, as they, abide not in the truth, but deny and oppose it, should escape the vengeance of God, for they will not.

"but cast them down to hell"~In what sense are we to understand the word hell as used by Peter? It cannot be understood as the lake of fire, for that is after the judgment~for which they are reserved for...which is to come, as is evident by even the angles themselves:

Matthew 8:29

"And behold they cried out saying, What have we to do with thee Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?"

They know that there is a day appointed for them to be judge and then cast into the lake of fire, or into the deep, as used by Mark and Luke.

Also, the world is full of evil spirits as is evident by many scriptures in the NT, and in the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Hell in this scripture is explain to us by Peter as he said these words:

"and delivered them into chains of darkness"~When they left their first estate, by sinning, God Almighty delivered them into chains of darkness~which means their sins left them under the guilt of sin, which is the power of darkness, and in black despair; shutting them up in unbelief, impenitence, and hardness of mind; being holden with the cords of their sins, and in the most dreadful state of bondage and captivity to their lusts, in just judgment on them; and in the most miserable and uncomfortable condition, being driven from the realms of light, deprived of the face and presence of God, in the utmost horror and trembling, and fearful looking for of judgment, and fiery indignation to consume them; and in utter darkness, without the least glimmering of light, joy, peace, and comfort; and where there is nothing but weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth; and being also under the restraints of the power and providence of God, and not able to stir or move, or do anything without divine permission; and being likewise, by the everlasting, unalterable, and inscrutable purposes and decrees of God, appointed to everlasting wrath and destruction; by which they are consigned and bound over to it, and held fast, that they cannot escape it! They are there~

"to be reserved unto judgment"~And judge they shall be! By Jesus Christ and his saints. This is the prison of hell in which they are now suffering under, there waiting for that great day of the wrath of Almighty God. This hell, they will never escape from, they are forever under this chains of darkness and deception in which they are now living under. Their final abode will be destruction in the lake of fire and brimstone.

You are so wrong Jeremiah~take what I have posted and prove it wrong, if you can, pretty sure you cannot.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Jesus had no inward lust contrary to the law of God. He was tempted in all points as we are, but, his faith in God as a man, was perfect, and those temptations got no further than his strong faith shielded them from enticing him. Those temptations did not drawn him toward disobeying God's royal law as the standard by which holy men walk to please God. He never gave a second thought of disobeying God, never. He never wrestle with sin, but triumph over every temptation by living by every word that came from the mouth of God. In Jesus Christ, MAN defeated the power of darkness by living by every word of God, inwardly from his heart.
And destroyed them he did! Every fiery darts thrown at him.

You say it but you either don't accept it as true, in which case you call God a liar, or you just don't understand it.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:14.

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Heb. 4:15.

In all points tempted as we are/the same way as we are.

And like "as we are" is described by James in 1:14.

Once more.....

2 Peter 2:4

"For if God spared not the angles that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto the judgement."

"For if God spared not the angels that sinned"~By whom are meant the devil and his angels; who are spirits created by God and as such were good; their first estate which they left was pure and holy, as well as high and honourable; they, were at first in the truth, though they abode not in it; they were once among the morning stars and sons of God, and were angels of light; their numbers are many, and therefore are here expressed in the plural number, "angels", though it cannot be said how large, a number that cannot be counted.

How can an estate be pure and holy? Did God share His glory of holiness with an estate?
And what do you mean "good?" God called the grass and herb-bearing seed "good." Are you saying matter - grass and herb-bearing seed is holy? God shared His glory in grass?

Whatever "number" they are the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting their judgment. That means this one passage in 2 Peter 2:4 challenges all the "demonology" of men as wrong and in error. Pretty much, heretical.

"God spared not"~ Notwithstanding the dignity and excellency of their nature, in strict justice, and awful severity, without any mercy, inflicted due punishment on them; wherefore it cannot be thought that false teachers, who, as they, abide not in the truth, but deny and oppose it, should escape the vengeance of God, for they will not.

As with man, the angels that sinned were created sinful - "missing the mark" - of the Glory of God and fallen short of His Glory. Sin comes from sinner. Sin does not come from holy or pure.

"but cast them down to hell"~In what sense are we to understand the word hell as used by Peter? It cannot be understood as the lake of fire, for that is after the judgment~for which they are reserved for...which is to come, as is evident by even the angles themselves:

The grave. "Unseen." (Out of the way.)

Matthew 8:29
"And behold they cried out saying, What have we to do with thee Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?"

Before what time? You're surmising, guessing. Why would these two men think the Son of God was going to "torment" them personally? Too much of a stretch to see it as you do.

They know that there is a day appointed for them to be judge and then cast into the lake of fire, or into the deep, as used by Mark and Luke.

Is there any Scripture in the Law, Psalms, or Prophets describing "Lake of Fire?" Or are you adding to the bible? They should have said Gehenna. But since when did Jewish thought come up with the idea that there was a "Lake" of fire and God would be sending people ther?

Also, the world is full of evil spirits as is evident by many scriptures in the NT, and in the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Hell in this scripture is explain to us by Peter as he said these words:

The only evil in the world comes from man. There will be no "the devil made me do it" because men and women will know it is their own sin that separated them from God.

"and delivered them into chains of darkness"~When they left their first estate, by sinning, God Almighty delivered them into chains of darkness~which means their sins left them under the guilt of sin, which is the power of darkness, and in black despair; shutting them up in unbelief, impenitence, and hardness of mind; being holden with the cords of their sins, and in the most dreadful state of bondage and captivity to their lusts, in just judgment on them; and in the most miserable and uncomfortable condition, being driven from the realms of light, deprived of the face and presence of God, in the utmost horror and trembling, and fearful looking for of judgment, and fiery indignation to consume them; and in utter darkness, without the least glimmering of light, joy, peace, and comfort; and where there is nothing but weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth; and being also under the restraints of the power and providence of God, and not able to stir or move, or do anything without divine permission; and being likewise, by the everlasting, unalterable, and inscrutable purposes and decrees of God, appointed to everlasting wrath and destruction; by which they are consigned and bound over to it, and held fast, that they cannot escape it! They are there~

That's a lot of surmising and guesswork.
You take Scripture descriptive of fallen, unatoned men and apply them to the angels that sinned that are locked up. Pretty much accusing the angels that sinned that are locked up and out of the way of things they are unable to do being locked up and out of the way.

"to be reserved unto judgment"~And judge they shall be! By Jesus Christ and his saints. This is the prison of hell in which they are now suffering under, there waiting for that great day of the wrath of Almighty God. This hell, they will never escape from, they are forever under this chains of darkness and deception in which they are now living under. Their final abode will be destruction in the lake of fire and brimstone.
You are so wrong Jeremiah~take what I have posted and prove it wrong, if you can, pretty sure you cannot.

How can you take "hell" (unseen) and apply it to suffering? I don't read "suffering" in 2 Peter 2:4.

 

[Mr GLee]

Everything in Scripture is revealed and belongs to us.
And how much is understood is God's prerogative to allowing how much light to understand His Word.
There is still a great deal in the Hebrew Scriptures God still needs to reveal to His people.
Biblical doctrine wasn't built in a day.

Everything revealed belongs to Him. "Let there be"

His name is Jealous and will not share his glory with the dying flesh of any nation.

He can use a unbeliever to preach His gospel just as easy as on that does . God is no longer adding any new "thus says the lord" . .I had a dream or a new revelation. (antichrists)

 

[Mr GLee]

Clearly, you are here to try and make other people look good with your nonsensical replies. Thanks.

I would think biblical sense. What make you think nonsense? Who am I making look good ? You ?

 

[Mr GLee]

Are you a Christian? Then don't pretext me. Esau is a Gentile then and not the brother of Jacob? So, what makes one a Gentile and what makes one a true Israelite? Your answer will determine what you are.

You would have to define true Israelite. using DNA from each original tribe .Using the genealogy which ended in Matthew and Luke and brought up to date. . Or did God stop adding when the seed spiritual Christ became sight. The Son of man, Jesus our brother in the Lord .

Heinz 57 today. God is not served by dying mankind .

 

[Shulammite]

I would think biblical sense. What make you think nonsense? Who am I making look good ? You ?

I need no help in looking good my good is God and He looks good on me. Perhaps English is your second language? That would explain a lot.

 

[Shulammite]

You would have to define true Israelite. using DNA from each original tribe .Using the genealogy which ended in Matthew and Luke and brought up to date. . Or did God stop adding when the seed spiritual Christ became sight. The Son of man, Jesus our brother in the Lord .

Heinz 57 today. God is not served by dying mankind .

Yeah you do need to ketch- up. I'm only replying to the thread because of a very unkind stance toward Gentiles.

 

[Mr GLee]

Yeah you do need to ketch- up. I'm only replying to the thread because of a very unkind stance toward Gentiles.

Yes, Non biblical stance

 

[jeremiah1five]

Everything revealed belongs to Him. "Let there be"

Everything revealed belongs to us and our children (speaking of Israel, not Gentiles)

Again, the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets belong to Israel and their children, and this is who the verse is addressing.

29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law. Dt 29:29.

His name is Jealous and will not share his glory with the dying flesh of any nation.
He can use a unbeliever to preach His gospel just as easy as on that does . God is no longer adding any new "thus says the lord" . .I had a dream or a new revelation. (antichrists)

I don't see the Holy Spirit of Truth using lies and liars to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Must be another spirit. Maybe the un-Holy Spirit of half-truth and lies.

There will be others tomorrow as there are today that have authority to say, "Thus Saith the LORD!"
I do it.

I've had prophetic dreams and visions. You're in no position to say I haven't.

 

[Josheb]

Are you a Christian?

Yes, I am. Are you?

Then don't pretext me.

My question is valid and one I suspect any (other) Christian would immediately answer without equivocation, defense, or digression.

Esau is a Gentile then and not the brother of Jacob?

I did not say Esau was a Gentile and I did not say Esau and Jacob were not brothers. Do not pretext me. EDOM was a descendant of Esau. If what the Bible says about Edom has been read (and presumably you have) then the obvious stuff is known.

Genesis 25:29-30
When Jacob had cooked stew, Esau came in from the field and he was famished; and Esau said to Jacob, "Please let me have a swallow of that red stuff there, for I am famished." Therefore his name was called Edom.

Genesis 32:3
Then Jacob sent messengers before him to his brother Esau in the land of Seir, the country of Edom.

Genesis 36:8
So Esau lived in the hill country of Seir; Esau is Edom.

The king of Edom refused to give the Israelites passage through the land of Edom in Moses' day.

Numbers 20:21
Thus Edom refused to allow Israel to pass through his territory; so Israel turned away from him.

And God made it a possession of Israel's but stopped the southeast boundary of the promised land at Edom. Edom was to serve them (or God's purpose thereof) but not be part of the promised land (which, in turn, was part of the Abrahamic/Christ promises). The tribe of Israel that inhabited the land next to Edom was Judah, the largest of the twelve tribes and the tribe from which the label "Jew" originates. So if a person in that region was not from Judah, they were from Edom. The term "Jew" became generalized to mean anyone following the Law of Moses and not just people specifically from the tribe of Judah. Edom was put into servitude under David and Solomon. Edom rebelled and was often at war with Israel throughout Israel's history, at least until Jehoram's reign (Jehoram, the son of Ahab). It was at that point in history that the Shunamite woman helped Elisha, for which God blessed her with a son who died and who Elisha later resuscitated. Afterward, Edom remained in conflict with Israel. The psalms and prophets speak of Edom in unkind ways. By Jeremiah's day,

Jeremiah 49:7
Concerning Edom. Thus says the LORD of hosts, "Is there no longer any wisdom in Teman? Has good counsel been lost to the prudent? Has their wisdom decayed?

But in Daniel we find,

Daniel 11:40-41
At the end time the king of the South will collide with him, and the king of the North will storm against him with chariots, with horsemen and with many ships; and he will enter countries, overflow them and pass through. He will also enter the Beautiful Land, and many countries will fall; but these will be rescued out of his hand: Edom, Moab and the foremost of the sons of Ammon.

Otherwise, Edom is not spoken of well and in Joel we find,

Joel 3:19-20
Egypt will become a waste, and Edom will become a desolate wilderness, because of the violence done to the sons of Judah, in whose land they have shed innocent blood. But Judah will be inhabited forever and Jerusalem for all generations.

Any mention of Edom is absent from the New Testament.

Esau is a Gentile then and not the brother of Jacob?

Esau and Jacob were brothers but that has nothing to do with what makes for being a Jew or a Gentile. The word "Gentile" is not an Old Testament term. There were no Jews in either man's day. If a search for the word "Jew," is done, then it will be seen the word does not occur in the Bible until 2 Kings 25! and isn't prominent until Esther, Ezra, and Nehemiah. The commonly used term is "Hebrew," a reference to Abraham having crossed the Euphrates when he left UR, his people having crossed over, being from the other side. As descendants of Abraham and then Isaac, Esau and Jacob were both Hebrew. Neither was Jewish.

So, what makes one a Gentile and what makes one a true Israelite?

Technically, if a person is not from Judah or, more generically, not from the twelve tribes then they are Gentile. The term in Hebrew is "goy," or "goyim" and ha-goyim are those from the nations other than that of Israel. Having been born in the United States, I am of another nation; therefore, I am ha-goyim, or Gentile.

However, when the New Testament epistolary shows up the reader of the Bible finds there was a lot of symbolism being applied by God in real history. Paul associates a Jew with the Law of Moses and physical circumcision in comparison to the circumcision done my God that is not "outward" (see Post #61). Paul states not all descendants of Abraham are his descendants, and not all Israel is Israel. Paul separates the authentic from the inauthentic using two metrics: promise and faith. Those of the promises of God who live by faith and are circumcised inwardly by God are the (true) descendants of Abraham, the Israel that is Israel, and the that is a Jew.

A person's place of birth and bloodline are irrelevant when measured by those metrics.

Your answer will determine what you are.

lol! You'll understand if I do not give a single word you say about anyone other than yourself any credence. The record already shows a refusal to answer a very simple, valid question when asked, and now the record shows a presumption to judge another. It is not very shulammite of you. Isn't it best if you speak for yourself and not take the throne of judgment from God?



I've asked a question and it remains unanswered. I have, alternatively, answered the questions I was asked and done so op-relevantly.

 

[Josheb]

So, did Isaac have seed to produce a Gentile son and a Hebrew son?

Both sons are Hebrew. Gentiles did not exist until the twelve tribes, more specifically that of Judah, and Edom was not Jude (Jewish).

The Land of Edom got its name from Esau who was called Edom for selling his birthright for some Red Stew. I'm sure you already know that. Are you saying Esau was not a Hebrew and why?

I have already answered this question.

 

[Shulammite]

Both sons are Hebrew. Gentiles did not exist until the twelve tribes, more specifically that of Judah, and Edom was not Jude (Jewish).

I have already answered this question.

Wow! Ok, enjoy that. Though I feel bad for people, the more time I spend surfing forums, I get why my Heavenly Father is going to do what He is. He has to, for His own name's sake. This is all crazy. Come Lord Jesus come quickly.

 

[Red Baker]

You say it but you either don't accept it as true, in which case you call God a liar, or you just don't understand it.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:14.

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Heb. 4:15.

In all points tempted as we are/the same way as we are.

And like "as we are" is described by James in 1:14.

I don't accept what as true? That Jesus was tempted? I thoroughly explained myself above, ( post #144 ) not going to do so again. If you refuse what I said, or, did not fully understand what I said, you will not accept it if I said it again. I clearly said the Jesus was tempted in all points as we are, yet his strong faith never waver toward given into its ungodly lust. as you quoted James:

James 1:14~"But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed."

Sin never got that far with Jesus Christ, not even an inch toward being enticed. We can be enticed and even think on it more than we should and may give in, or, we may not give in, knowing the consequences the pleasure of sin will cost us. It will bring troubles to our house just as it did to king David. Much could be said, but enough.

How can an estate be pure and holy?

They were, even a little higher than man!

Did God share His glory of holiness with an estate?

He created them just as he did man in this respect~after his own image~and that image consist in knowledge, wisdom, understanding, and with them might/power above what man was created with.

And what do you mean "good?"

Good in this sense~there was nothing lacking in their creation for the purpose as to why God created them. THe same as with man. God knew what he had created was perfect.

God called the grass and herb-bearing seed "good." Are you saying matter - grass and herb-bearing seed is holy? God shared His glory in grass?

Perfect for the very purposes for which all things were created could not be improved upon.

As with man, the angels that sinned were created sinful - "missing the mark" - of the Glory of God and fallen short of His Glory. Sin comes from sinner. Sin does not come from holy or pure.

This is borderline of blasphemy. Any angels ( spirits ) or creatures, God creates, is less than what God is~surely you understand this truth.

If One God can be created, why not many? Many Mighty Gods and Everlasting Fathers, (there not many, but ONE, revealed to us as three, according to their work in the affairs of creation, and the salvation of the elect seed of Jesus Christ) many first Causes, and last End of all things! The Eternal Spirit of God is not capable of diminution or divisibility, that is an impossibility. This would be going against what his word teaches us, that we should have no other gods before Him.

So, God did create both angels and man, after His image~to which he gives his testimony that it was very good concerning his creation. What he did not give to his creation (since it is impossible for him to do so ) was his glorious attribute of being immutable for reasons just given above. God did not created either angels or man sinful, each sinned when left to themselves~both were deceived by sin/lust. What you are refusing to see is God has certain infinite attributes that he alone possesses that can not be created! This is your stumbling block that is keeping you from seeing the truth!

The grave.

Hell is sometimes refers to as the grave, but not always! Sometimes it literally has reference to the lake of fire, or as Christ used the term hellfire. No verse of the scriptures is contain in a vacuum~we must connect scriptures with scriptures and consider other scriptures in light of what we are reading and it will help us to understand the sense of what we are reading that will flow with all scriptures, and that's what I did above with 2nd Peter 2. Evil spirits, or, fallen angels, are still here and yet those very fallen angels are under chains of darkness, just as I explain above.

Is there any Scripture in the Law, Psalms, or Prophets describing "Lake of Fire?" Or are you adding to the bible? They should have said Gehenna. But since when did Jewish thought come up with the idea that there was a "Lake" of fire and God would be sending people ther?

I'm coming back to finish.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I don't accept what as true? That Jesus was tempted? I thoroughly explained myself above, ( post #144 ) not going to do so again. If you refuse what I said, or, did not fully understand what I said, you will not accept it if I said it again. I clearly said the Jesus was tempted in all points as we are, yet his strong faith never waver toward given into its ungodly lust. as you quoted James:
Sin never got that far with Jesus Christ, not even an inch toward being enticed. We can be enticed and even think on it more than we should and may give in, or, we may not give in, knowing the consequences the pleasure of sin will cost us. It will bring troubles to our house just as it did to king David. Much could be said, but enough.

Being tempted is not a sin, so Jesus being tempted of His own "lust" was not a sin.
But His temptation was from within as in all points as we are tempted. If His temptation was from without and our from within as James says it is for everyone - including Christ - then there are two ways of being tempted and Jesus can now NOT be our High Priest for if His temptation was from without and our within as James says, then He wasn't tempted "in all points as we are" and is not touched by the feeling of OUR infirmity, His temptation a sham, and cannot be our High Priest.

They were, even a little higher than man!
He created them just as he did man in this respect~after his own image~and that image consist in knowledge, wisdom, understanding, and with them might/power above what man was created with.

Understanding? They only knew what God wanted them to know and they certainly were not pillars of the Garden, but ignorant people. They possessed no wisdom for wisdom is Christ personified. And their only knowledge was incomplete. God used the Tree to give them the KNOWLEDGE of their own evil-ness, something I call sinful which means missing the mark. After hanging out with God they learned a "God complex." Something like a mental condition. Delusions of grandeur. That is, UNTIL God through the Tree gave them the KNOWLEDGE of their sinfulness and their house of cards came falling down with the passing of wind.
The image of God is not a natural man for the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God, neither can he know them for they were spiritually discerned and void of the Holy Spirit. The image of God is Christ.

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:15.

Adam bore the image of the earthy. Adam was not the image of God.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1 Co 15:48–49.

Good in this sense~there was nothing lacking in their creation for the purpose as to why God created them. THe same as with man. God knew what he had created was perfect.

Not perfect. To specification. That's what the word "good" in the Garden means.

Perfect for the very purposes for which all things were created could not be improved upon.

Not perfect. To specification. That's what the word "good" in the Garden means.

This is borderline of blasphemy. Any angels ( spirits ) or creatures, God creates, is less than what God is~surely you understand this truth.

Yes, they are created fallen short of His Glory. The word is "SIN" in the Bible.

If One God can be created, why not many? Many Mighty Gods and Everlasting Fathers, (there not many, but ONE, revealed to us as three, according to their work in the affairs of creation, and the salvation of the elect seed of Jesus Christ) many first Causes, and last End of all things! The Eternal Spirit of God is not capable of diminution or divisibility, that is an impossibility. This would be going against what his word teaches us, that we should have no other gods before Him.

Then man and woman were created sinners. They sinned. Sin comes from sinners. There was nothing holy or righteous or perfect about the first man and woman.

So, God did create both angels and man, after His image~to which he gives his testimony that it was very good concerning his creation. What he did not give to his creation (since it is impossible for him to do so ) was his glorious attribute of being immutable for reasons just given above. God did not created either angels or man sinful, each sinned when left to themselves~both were deceived by sin/lust. What you are refusing to see is God has certain infinite attributes that he alone possesses that can not be created! This is your stumbling block that is keeping you from seeing the truth!

Unless Adam and the woman possessed ALL Deific Attributes of God they would fall short of His Glory. The word form that is "SIN."
That is exactly my position with regard to their creative make-up. They were created sinful, missing the mark of the Glry of God, fallen short of the Glory of God.
Sinners.

Hell is sometimes refers to as the grave, but not always! Sometimes it literally has reference to the lake of fire, or as Christ used the term hellfire.

Gehenna is a synonym of lake of fire.

No verse of the scriptures is contain in a vacuum~we must connect scriptures with scriptures and consider other scriptures in light of what we are reading and it will help us to understand the sense of what we are reading that will flow with all scriptures, and that's what I did above with 2nd Peter 2. Evil spirits, or, fallen angels, are still here and yet those very fallen angels are under chains of darkness, just as I explain above.

That's what I've done, and it is sound.
Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked as sin comes from sinner.
Holiness comes from holy. The second Adam (Christ) proves my point.

I'm coming back to finish.

The second coming of Red Baker!
Blow a trumpet!

 

[Shulammite]

Being tempted is not a sin, so Jesus being tempted of His own "lust" was not a sin.
But His temptation was from within as in all points as we are tempted. If His temptation was from without and our from within as James says it is for everyone - including Christ - then there are two ways of being tempted and Jesus can now NOT be our High Priest for if His temptation was from without and our within as James says, then He wasn't tempted "in all points as we are" and is not touched by the feeling of OUR infirmity, His temptation a sham, and cannot be our High Priest.

Understanding? They only knew what God wanted them to know and they certainly were not pillars of the Garden, but ignorant people. They possessed no wisdom for wisdom is Christ personified. And their only knowledge was incomplete. God used the Tree to give them the KNOWLEDGE of their own evil-ness, something I call sinful which means missing the mark. After hanging out with God they learned a "God complex." Something like a mental condition. Delusions of grandeur. That is, UNTIL God through the Tree gave them the KNOWLEDGE of their sinfulness and their house of cards came falling down with the passing of wind.
The image of God is not a natural man for the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God, neither can he know them for they were spiritually discerned and void of the Holy Spirit. The image of God is Christ.

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:15.

Adam bore the image of the earthy. Adam was not the image of God.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1 Co 15:48–49.

Not perfect. To specification. That's what the word "good" in the Garden means.

Not perfect. To specification. That's what the word "good" in the Garden means.

Yes, they are created fallen short of His Glory. The word is "SIN" in the Bible.

Then man and woman were created sinners. They sinned. Sin comes from sinners. There was nothing holy or righteous or perfect about the first man and woman.

Unless Adam and the woman possessed ALL Deific Attributes of God they would fall short of His Glory. The word form that is "SIN."
That is exactly my position with regard to their creative make-up. They were created sinful, missing the mark of the Glry of God, fallen short of the Glory of God.
Sinners.

Gehenna is a synonym of lake of fire.

That's what I've done, and it is sound.
Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked as sin comes from sinner.
Holiness comes from holy. The second Adam (Christ) proves my point.

The second coming of Red Baker!
Blow a trumpet!

No not tempted of His own lust but of the devil. He was lead into the desert to be tempted by the devil. However, as the Our Father states;," Lead us NOT INTO temptation, but deliver us from evil. Christ was not lead INTO temptation He was confronted with it. Being tempted is not a sin, being lead into it is. The desert represents the world and all it's fruitless desires and sins. The devil was permitted to test Christ's prowess and lost.

 

[jeremiah1five]

No not tempted of His own lust but of the devil. He was lead into the desert to be tempted by the devil. However, as the Our Father states;," Lead us NOT INTO temptation, but deliver us from evil. Christ was not lead INTO temptation He was confronted with it. Being tempted is not a sin, being lead into it is. The desert represents the world and all it's fruitless desires and sins. The devil was permitted to test Christ's prowess and lost.

Why the propensity to add to the bible?

Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. Mt 4:1.

First, the word "devil" is an adjective, and you can't make an adjective into a noun or pronoun. That's bad grammar.
Second, the word "devil" being an adjective simply means "traducer" and a traducer" means "false accuser" or "liar," or someone who impugns the character of another."
Third, the Scripture says "led" and you want to omit that word which it clearly states and change it into "confront"? The word "confront" is not in this verse. Why can't you take Scripture as written and interpret it as written? Changing the word is not being honest with Scripture.
Fourth, if you say this was the "devil" it can't be for we are not ourselves tempted of the "devil" for that would make James' truth on how we are tempted void and if you were able to truly do this then also we can't all be tempted of the "devil" because the "devil" is not omnipresent and able to be everywhere at the same time with tempting over 8 billion humans on the planet at the same time.
Fifth, if Jesus was tempted by the "devil" which is an adjective, and is not omnipresent and can only be in one place at any one time and can't be tempting over 8 billion humans at the same time, then this means Jesus was NOT "tempted in all points as we are" and CANNOT be our High Priest who is NOT "touched with the feeling of our infirmities" because that would mean He is NOT "tempted IN ALL POINTS as we are" because James says our temptation comes from within and Jesus' temptation is different coming as you say coming from without. So, let's not change the Word of Truth to fit our pet theories.
That's an interesting move to try to change a word in Scripture to fit our pet theories. Saul did that too, so don't be embarrassed. And I'm trying to understand why Saul would do that to an original prophecy of Isaiah because he changes the WHOLE meaning of the original prophecy to fit his theory, too.

But let me help you come to the knowledge of the truth about Jesus' temptation without having to change a thing to make Scripture say what we believe rather than allowing Scripture to tell us what to believe, and that is the word "lust."
Strong's defines the word as "longing" and there is nothing wrong with longing for something or someone. "Longing" for something or someone is not a sin.
Jesus fasted for 40 days and Scripture says He was "hungered." I'd be hungered too after 40 days of not eating. And a little insight: Hungered has to do with our flesh. This indicates that the human part of the God-man was being tested, and being fully man and fully God the human part of Jesus' Person was being tested.

So, here we have Jesus "led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil." I find it interesting that the Holy Spirit would call the human part of Jesus "devil" or "traducer/liar." That's the same adjective when Jesus called Judas "devil" which is what Judas did when he went to the high priest to assist in Jesus' apprehension. Not only that but Jesus called Peter the person "Satan" which needs to be understood because Jesus did not call and choose Satan as one of His apostles and servant of the early baby Jewish Church. "Satan" means "adversary" and Peter's will to keep Jesus from going to Jerusalem where He would be killed was "adversary" to the will of God that Jesus go there in accordance with Scripture to die. Everything about Jesus' life was preordained and predestined - just as everyone's life is preordained and predestined. God knows the end from the beginning BECAUSE He's ordained the end.

So, the truth of James' statement in 1:14 that temptation comes from "of our own lust" which means temptation comes from within is accurate for Jesus' "longing" for bread to eat was an affliction of His flesh, His body. There's no sin in that.
And you go too far in your spiritualizing "desert" as being "fruitless desires and sins" because most of the LORD'S prophets come from the "desert." The Baptist came from out of the wilderness and surely, he could not be coming out of sin. I don't see why you would want to take the literal (we get the word "literary" from this word and vice-versa) and spiritualize it when you haven't first understood it's literal application. But don't feel bad. Many Gentile Christians do what you do. Even Saul.

So, now we learn the truth of Jesus' temptation, that He was tempted from His own "longing" to eat bread after being hungered 40 days, and now we can say that as a model He can now be our High Priest for "being touched with the feeling of our infirmities and tempted in all points as we are" which is exactly what happened. I'm sure this wasn't the only time Jesus "longed" ["lust"] for something throughout His life. He was tired and "longed" for a bed. He was beaten and "longed" for relief. He agonized in Gethsemane and "longed" for comfort which incidentally did come with the angels ministering to Him. He "longed" to be re-united with the Father on the cross as He took the punishment for "our" sins and being momentarily separated from Abba.

I think that's it. Now we know the truth of Jesus' temptation without having to change a word.
I believe this truth of Jesus' temptation should change our beliefs without our wanting to change words in the Holy Writ.

 

[Shulammite]

Why the propensity to add to the bible?

Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. Mt 4:1.

First, the word "devil" is an adjective, and you can't make an adjective into a noun or pronoun. That's bad grammar.
Second, the word "devil" being an adjective simply means "traducer" and a traducer" means "false accuser" or "liar," or someone who impugns the character of another."
Third, the Scripture says "led" and you want to omit that word which it clearly states and change it into "confront"? The word "confront" is not in this verse. Why can't you take Scripture as written and interpret it as written? Changing the word is not being honest with Scripture.
Fourth, if you say this was the "devil" it can't be for we are not ourselves tempted of the "devil" for that would make James' truth on how we are tempted void and if you were able to truly do this then also we can't all be tempted of the "devil" because the "devil" is not omnipresent and able to be everywhere at the same time with tempting over 8 billion humans on the planet at the same time.
Fifth, if Jesus was tempted by the "devil" which is an adjective, and is not omnipresent and can only be in one place at any one time and can't be tempting over 8 billion humans at the same time, then this means Jesus was NOT "tempted in all points as we are" and CANNOT be our High Priest who is NOT "touched with the feeling of our infirmities" because that would mean He is NOT "tempted IN ALL POINTS as we are" because James says our temptation comes from within and Jesus' temptation is different coming as you say coming from without. So, let's not change the Word of Truth to fit our pet theories.
That's an interesting move to try to change a word in Scripture to fit our pet theories. Saul did that too, so don't be embarrassed. And I'm trying to understand why Saul would do that to an original prophecy of Isaiah because he changes the WHOLE meaning of the original prophecy to fit his theory, too.

But let me help you come to the knowledge of the truth about Jesus' temptation without having to change a thing to make Scripture say what we believe rather than allowing Scripture to tell us what to believe, and that is the word "lust."
Strong's defines the word as "longing" and there is nothing wrong with longing for something or someone. "Longing" for something or someone is not a sin.
Jesus fasted for 40 days and Scripture says He was "hungered." I'd be hungered too after 40 days of not eating. And a little insight: Hungered has to do with our flesh. This indicates that the human part of the God-man was being tested, and being fully man and fully God the human part of Jesus' Person was being tested.

So, here we have Jesus "led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil." I find it interesting that the Holy Spirit would call the human part of Jesus "devil" or "traducer/liar." That's the same adjective when Jesus called Judas "devil" which is what Judas did when he went to the high priest to assist in Jesus' apprehension. Not only that but Jesus called Peter the person "Satan" which needs to be understood because Jesus did not call and choose Satan as one of His apostles and servant of the early baby Jewish Church. "Satan" means "adversary" and Peter's will to keep Jesus from going to Jerusalem where He would be killed was "adversary" to the will of God that Jesus go there in accordance with Scripture to die. Everything about Jesus' life was preordained and predestined - just as everyone's life is preordained and predestined. God knows the end from the beginning BECAUSE He's ordained the end.

So, the truth of James' statement in 1:14 that temptation comes from "of our own lust" which means temptation comes from within is accurate for Jesus' "longing" for bread to eat was an affliction of His flesh, His body. There's no sin in that.
And you go too far in your spiritualizing "desert" as being "fruitless desires and sins" because most of the LORD'S prophets come from the "desert." The

Shulammite said: ( Had to do this because when you respond it is combined with your post and messes up the quota because I try not to pretext, anyways....Jesus was led up/ into- the widerness/desert by the Holy Spirit to be tempted by the devil. Not complicated. Everyday as Christians we hold the Holy Spirit within us and satan with hus fiery darts makes our lives difficult. We experience temptation all around in the isolation in faith.

You for instance go right into the temptation with satan to corrupt truth. Everyday you make it a practice of disenfranchising those called of Gentile nations to be Christian. Everyday, you make it a practice of putting scripture against scripture as though the scriptures could implode. You assert that Christ had a sin nature when scripture is clear He is the only one who had no sin.

Taking sin upon your flesh and actually sinning are two different things. Being tempted of satan and not one's own flesh is too a different thing. Temptation is all around in this world. You see this everyday. Women dressed in sultry attire, people with a lot of cash and they throw themselves at you in hopes to lure you. Men of ill repute in the form of politicians tell you they have all the answers and you follow them. Though their folly be apparent people couple up with them. Hence, the spiritual harlotry Rev. 17-18.

Christ was not tempted of His own flesh because He has no sin. He was as scripture states "tempted of the devil". You know that sin of the flesh temptation, everyone does- that thorn, Paul spoke of? It comes in many forms, sexual urges- you may act upon privately, that worldly magizines and psychologists say is ok and even encourage for personal gratification of oneself when those urges arise. The temptation to hate people ( like Gentiles and even for others to hate Jews, looking with lust at a man or woman...etc...... Point is Christ had no such urges. He did however understand them, felt the gravity of them because He was taking sin unto Himself from the moment of His Incarnation. Never, never did He even have a sinful desire. He became as sin for us ( AS) being the operative word. Meaning -the punishment for sin He took (AS) though He were a sinner. Like the lambs of sacrifice and the scape goat put outside of the city by the Jews ritually for atonement, He is the final sacrifice once and for all. He was carrying sin away to the cross all His life.

So,let us not only thank God for the sacrifice the Messiah made, but let us also rejoice in the life He lived. For He showed us how to overcome. By the Words of Life we defeat our advesary and vanquish his fiery darts aimed at us. Those fiery darts are temptation always. They can provoke us to wrath, hate, lust ....etc.....That is temptation.

Greater than that, we learn that Christ was tempted at His weakest moments in the account of Christ being lead into that desert. Hence, what His fasting in desolation of the desert represents. We must obstain from worldly desires.There is a significance to that example. We will all enter into a valley of the shadow of death to various degrees. The fullest degree has already begun and will expand to a greater global tribulation. We will all experience a desert = the lack of faith in the world- the Holy Spirit being only present in the followers of Christ. We may experience hunger, and satan may give us suggestions as to how we may eat, that could be " show us a sign", like we are some road side spectacle or circus act here to give something to swine. We may be asked (at our weakest physical point) to bow down and pay satan homage in order to take part in the kingdoms of the world with all their plenty to eat. We may even be told to throw ourselves off mountains- (kill ourselves) in order to find relief. That is the testimony of Christ in the wilderness- barren waste land of no hope.

When we as Christians enter there He shows us what we must say in response to satan's temptations, who we must rely on.Who will come out on the other side? " These are those who made white their garments through tribulation", this is what is called the renewal of the mind.

That garment that needs to be made white is the mind. That happens through fighting the devil's temptations thrown at you. Knowledge is power! Don't perish- " My people perish for lack of knowledge ". You fight satan through your neurons - firing off knowledge at him.

Without that wrestling you cannot be called Israel! Jacob wrestling with an angel is to show us that our advesary is an angel- a fallen one who is clever and knowledgeable than most men. However, not wiser than the elect. Israel means God Pravails. The greater the faith the brighter the mind and the firing of the neurons.For greater is He who is within you than he who is in the world. Get behind me satan!