What is : Imputed Righteousness

[EarlyActs]

Certainly is not. Your gospel is, not mine.

It looks like you don't believe that we can go and sin no more, but still may sin.

Otherwise, you wouldn't be preaching going and only sinning less, which is to always be sinning some.

You realize the italics is what you said, right? At this rate it’s pretty hopeless bc you negate anything.

 

[Ghada]

Here is another aspect of impute which is apart from financial or debt, and can help us see it, because the term can also mean 'to regard (someone a certain way)'. "God calls the things that are not as though they were, and gives life to the dead." --Rom 4.

Another new twisting to unravel. Thanks. Now and then a new screw is tightened into another gospel, and the dark light finally clicks in my mind. In this case, with the use of this verse, you preach the as though gospel of the unrighteous being as though the righteous.

God does not declare the unrighteous to be as though righteous, without doing His righteousness, and especially not while still doing unrighteousness against Him.

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

He does not fellowship with His enemies, as though they are friends.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

Only those doing His righteousness are in deed and in truth His righteous people and friends.

If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doing righteousness is born of him.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

There is no as though gospel of Jesus Christ. There is however another gospel preached as though the Bible.

As I've said before. It's all a matter of which eyes we are reading the Bible with: clean eyes that are too pure to see any justification for sinning, vs defiled eyes that see plenty of justification for all manner of sinning.

Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Here's another devious one, and actually had me fooled for a while:

1)."You can have all the sin you want while you walk in your old man dead flesh.
2.) But you have no sin when you walk in him. Because there's no sin in him."

At first I thought it was agreement, that there is no one sinning in the body of Christ, who is the sinless Head of His own body. And so, Christ does not minister sin to His own body.

But then, I realized the person believed the doctrine of the 'saved' soul being now separated from the 'old' body. And so all Christians can indeed be justified in any sinning we like with our old 'dead' bodies, because we are not counted as sinners. I.e. the doers of unrighteousness counted as though righteous.

And so, voila! We are not sinning 'in Christ', in whom is no sin, even while sinning 'in the flesh'. Because being 'in Christ' by spirit alone, we cannot be judged as though unrighteous by works of the flesh.

It's your own as though gospel from another angle. You may not agree with the unfettered sinning part, because you preach ongoing but 'less' than before. However, with God that's just a doctrinal distinction without a difference to His commandment to repent of all our sins and trespasses.

Here's another unclean twist from another out of Gal 2, But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

That one says Paul here is actually claiming to be found a sinner too, while being justified by Christ.

The Scripture preaches against seeking to be justified by Christ, while still being found a sinner. If so, then the verse concludes that would make Christ a minister of sin to His own body. God forbid.

Paul once again exposes a false teaching by ad absurdum, and the person absurdly takes it as confirmation of the absurd! Ain't that a hoot. You see, there's no defilement of Bible truth, that the eyes of the unclean will not turn into an absurd lie.

I can also do that kind of Bible twisting with sinners' eyes:

For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Since people everywhere are still sinners, including all Christians, then the believers are no more lost sinners, but are now found sinners justified by Christ. We were lost sinners, but are now 'found sinners'. Isn't that neat?

We are no longer as though lost sinful sheep without God (though in works we are), but we are now found as though sinful sheep of God.

I used to be a pool shark, where I was so good at pool, that I could miss on purpose to lure in the mark. And I found it took even more skill to miss convincingly, than to just make the shot.

 

[Ghada]

You realize the italics is what you said, right? At this rate it’s pretty hopeless bc you negate anything.

What's hopeless is our gospel ever agreeing. You know that right? Long ago, this just became a another exercise of Bible discipline to correct errors.

I mean, you don't really think you can persuade me to repent of doing righteousness at all times, right? Or even of at least agreeing in principle with you, that the doers of unrighteousness can be counted as righteous by their own faith alone.

Neither is going to happen. We're only going on so long as I see something new from you to correct. I am thankful for your help in realizing many Christians like yourself actually preach an as though gospel, as though it were Jesus Christ'.

You preach a gospel where believers are only as though righteous, which of course is only by faith and not by works.

It's not the real deal gospel of the Bible (where the believers are actually doing God's righteousness and are righteous as He), but you are only as though righteous by faith alone.

I actually believe I'm righteous!! It's almost as though I'm actually doing righteousness!!

 

[EarlyActs]

Another new twisting to unravel. Thanks. Now and then a new screw is tightened into another gospel, and the dark light finally clicks in my mind. In this case, with the use of this verse, you preach the as though gospel of the unrighteous being as though the righteous.

God does not declare the unrighteous to be as though righteous, without doing His righteousness, and especially not while still doing unrighteousness against Him.

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

He does not fellowship with His enemies, as though they are friends.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

Only those doing His righteousness are in deed and in truth His righteous people and friends.

If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doing righteousness is born of him.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

There is no as though gospel of Jesus Christ. There is however another gospel preached as though the Bible.

As I've said before. It's all a matter of which eyes we are reading the Bible with: clean eyes that are too pure to see any justification for sinning, vs defiled eyes that see plenty of justification for all manner of sinning.

Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Here's another devious one, and actually had me fooled for a while:

1)."You can have all the sin you want while you walk in your old man dead flesh.
2.) But you have no sin when you walk in him. Because there's no sin in him."

At first I thought it was agreement, that there is no one sinning in the body of Christ, who is the sinless Head of His own body. And so, Christ does not minister sin to His own body.

But then, I realized the person believed the doctrine of the 'saved' soul being now separated from the 'old' body. And so all Christians can indeed be justified in any sinning we like with our old 'dead' bodies, because we are not counted as sinners. I.e. the doers of unrighteousness counted as though righteous.

And so, voila! We are not sinning 'in Christ', in whom is no sin, even while sinning 'in the flesh'. Because being 'in Christ' by spirit alone, we cannot be judged as though unrighteous by works of the flesh.

It's your own as though gospel from another angle. You may not agree with the unfettered sinning part, because you preach ongoing but 'less' than before. However, with God that's just a doctrinal distinction without a difference to His commandment to repent of all our sins and trespasses.

Here's another unclean twist from another out of Gal 2, But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

That one says Paul here is actually claiming to be found a sinner too, while being justified by Christ.

The Scripture preaches against seeking to be justified by Christ, while still being found a sinner. If so, then the verse concludes that would make Christ a minister of sin to His own body. God forbid.

Paul once again exposes a false teaching by ad absurdum, and the person absurdly takes it as confirmation of the absurd! Ain't that a hoot. You see, there's no defilement of Bible truth, that the eyes of the unclean will not turn into an absurd lie.

I can also do that kind of Bible twisting with sinners' eyes:

For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Since people everywhere are still sinners, including all Christians, then the believers are no more lost sinners, but are now found sinners justified by Christ. We were lost sinners, but are now 'found sinners'. Isn't that neat?

We are no longer as though lost sinful sheep without God (though in works we are), but we are now found as though sinful sheep of God.

I used to be a pool shark, where I was so good at pool, that I could miss on purpose to lure in the mark. And I found it took even more skill to miss convincingly, than to just make the shot.

Can’t have a conversation when it takes 10 mins for one.

Yes the specific meaning of as though is against the apparent facts. You need to get familiar with Rom 5 saying Gods love is extended to the worst.

It is not that they stay that way; they repent; but that God is not bribed.

When I’m talking about them first hearing the news of Christ, you steal that and insist on total repentance in the very first moment. Not realistic and not part of the progression that some planted, some watered, some harvested. 1 Cor 3

 

[EarlyActs]

What's hopeless is our gospel ever agreeing. You know that right? Long ago, this just became a another exercise of Bible discipline to correct errors.

I mean, you don't really think you can persuade me to repent of doing righteousness at all times, right? Or even of at least agreeing in principle with you, that the doers of unrighteousness can be counted as righteous by their own faith alone.

Neither is going to happen. We're only going on so long as I see something new from you to correct. I am thankful for your help in realizing many Christians like yourself actually preach an as though gospel, as though it were Jesus Christ'.

You preach a gospel where believers are only as though righteous, which of course is only by faith and not by works.

It's not the real deal gospel of the Bible (where the believers are actually doing God's righteousness and are righteous as He), but you are only as though righteous by faith alone.

I actually believe I'm righteous!! It's almost as though I'm actually doing righteousness!!

The last line proves you still don’t get imputation as defined in the Bible and in English.

Sin was imputed to Christ so that righteousness could be imputed to us. So Mr Expert, how much did Christ sin in that transaction?

No human could ever “do” Rom 3:21. It is a ridiculous thought and you are taking Christs place away from him. shame on you.

 

[EarlyActs]

Another new twisting to unravel. Thanks. Now and then a new screw is tightened into another gospel, and the dark light finally clicks in my mind. In this case, with the use of this verse, you preach the as though gospel of the unrighteous being as though the righteous.

God does not declare the unrighteous to be as though righteous, without doing His righteousness, and especially not while still doing unrighteousness against Him.

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

He does not fellowship with His enemies, as though they are friends.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

Only those doing His righteousness are in deed and in truth His righteous people and friends.

If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doing righteousness is born of him.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

There is no as though gospel of Jesus Christ. There is however another gospel preached as though the Bible.

As I've said before. It's all a matter of which eyes we are reading the Bible with: clean eyes that are too pure to see any justification for sinning, vs defiled eyes that see plenty of justification for all manner of sinning.

Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Here's another devious one, and actually had me fooled for a while:

1)."You can have all the sin you want while you walk in your old man dead flesh.
2.) But you have no sin when you walk in him. Because there's no sin in him."

At first I thought it was agreement, that there is no one sinning in the body of Christ, who is the sinless Head of His own body. And so, Christ does not minister sin to His own body.

But then, I realized the person believed the doctrine of the 'saved' soul being now separated from the 'old' body. And so all Christians can indeed be justified in any sinning we like with our old 'dead' bodies, because we are not counted as sinners. I.e. the doers of unrighteousness counted as though righteous.

And so, voila! We are not sinning 'in Christ', in whom is no sin, even while sinning 'in the flesh'. Because being 'in Christ' by spirit alone, we cannot be judged as though unrighteous by works of the flesh.

It's your own as though gospel from another angle. You may not agree with the unfettered sinning part, because you preach ongoing but 'less' than before. However, with God that's just a doctrinal distinction without a difference to His commandment to repent of all our sins and trespasses.

Here's another unclean twist from another out of Gal 2, But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

That one says Paul here is actually claiming to be found a sinner too, while being justified by Christ.

The Scripture preaches against seeking to be justified by Christ, while still being found a sinner. If so, then the verse concludes that would make Christ a minister of sin to His own body. God forbid.

Paul once again exposes a false teaching by ad absurdum, and the person absurdly takes it as confirmation of the absurd! Ain't that a hoot. You see, there's no defilement of Bible truth, that the eyes of the unclean will not turn into an absurd lie.

I can also do that kind of Bible twisting with sinners' eyes:

For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Since people everywhere are still sinners, including all Christians, then the believers are no more lost sinners, but are now found sinners justified by Christ. We were lost sinners, but are now 'found sinners'. Isn't that neat?

We are no longer as though lost sinful sheep without God (though in works we are), but we are now found as though sinful sheep of God.

I used to be a pool shark, where I was so good at pool, that I could miss on purpose to lure in the mark. And I found it took even more skill to miss convincingly, than to just make the shot.

Abraham was regarded as righteous though he was not circumcised, do you see?

 

[Ghada]

Here is another aspect of impute which is apart from financial or debt, and can help us see it, because the term can also mean 'to regard (someone a certain way)'. "God calls the things that are not as though they were, and gives life to the dead." --Rom 4.

Now let's look at the Scripture with clear eyes of faith and righteousness:

(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

First off, we acknowledge God is first speaking of quickening Sarah's dead womb at old age. He did so by Abraham doing His word of promise and laying with Sarah to conceive and have the son promised long ago.

Abraham staggered not in unbelief, but by believing God he lay with Sarah and God quickened her womb to conceive and bare a son in her old age. This is why Isaac is said to be born after the Spirit in Gal 4.

The promise of the NT Gospel is if we like Abraham do our part, and repent of sinning, we are freely given a whole new heart and life with all things now being of God, and nothing of the devil from the past.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

If we don't do our part and repent, and go on with our own religion of continued sinning, then we make ourselves born of the bondwoman as was Ishmael.

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

The unrepented continue in a religion of continued servitude to sin, while us that repent go on to the freedom of sinning no more.

There is a movie called THE PROPOSITION

God's only proposition to all sinners everywhere is His commandment to repent of all our transgressing.

The good news for Jesus' sake is washing away all the past life without Christ, to now have the whole new life without sinning in Christ Jesus.

The believer does not have and cannot have the status God requires for acceptance because it is the standard of Christ himself,

Correct. No man is acceptable to God by just repenting of sinning. We must do so for Jesus' sake.

Those not repenting aren't even as though they were seeking justification by Christ. They aren't seeking justification at all, because they aren't seeking righteousness first by repenting of unrighteousness.

But the believer can access that by faith in Christ.

There is no believer in Jesus Christ without first repenting of dead works. His faith is only given with a new heart to them that do repent.

The sinful woman of Luke 7 loved much because she had been forgiven much. It is best--we will love more--if we all , consider or regard our sin-debt to be even greater than our known sin.

This is senseless sophistry dressed up with pseudo humility.

No man is loving God more by knowingly sinning more.

You're preaching let us sin that grace may abound.

Man's unrighteousness does not commend the righteousness of God. by showing how our unrighteousness is not His righteousness.

It only shows we are unrighteous still by doing such things.

 

[Ghada]

You still don't understand the term justified here. It is not a behavioral change, it causes one. Cause and effect are two different things. Justified is maybe best understood by placing "from" after it. We are justified from our sins (their impact on our account).

We are justified from sinning, not from being condemned while sinning.

Justification is a gift that causes many effects/impacts in our lives.

Justification is the gift given to them that repent of sinning for Jesus' sake. The result is righteous and holy living.

But it is not an effect/impact itself.

Not with the unrepented. There is no justification nor impact, but just continued sinning. Maybe less than before, but all the same to God: still going on in sin and unrighteousness.

 

[Ghada]

Hey Ghada, if you had any experience with people, you know that at first there are things that they do that they don't even know are sin. It can take a while.

I am a person. When I repented of sinning, I didn't need to be told fornication, theft, idolatry, drunkenness, lying, foul cursing, etc...is sinning.

I was already an expert at that stuff.

People keep doing works of the flesh, because they haven't repented and saved from this sinning by Jesus. People who teach such unrepented Christianity, pretend their 'newborn' proselytes just don't yet really 'know' what sin is. They need time to 'learn' that lasciviousness isn't 'cool' with Christ.

Paul never speaks of repented newborns needing to learn what sinning is. He only speaks of newborns with a weak conscience, who have not yet learned our liberty in the law of Christ.

 

[Ghada]

God's gospel is that God made Jesus to be sin by imputation (he didn't actually sin), so we could have the righteousness of God imputed to us (we don't become perfectly righteous).

I don't read any difference int he Bible between being righteous vs 'perfectly' righteous. We are either doing righteousness or unrighteousness. We are either righteous or unrighteous.

Perfectness in Christ is learning how to continue doing the same righteousness through all temptations and tribulations.

The god of this world tries to make difference between righteousness and 'perfectly' righteous. That's just word play for not doing righteousness at all times, but still doing the unrighteousness not yet repented of.

 

[EarlyActs]

Now let's look at the Scripture with clear eyes of faith and righteousness:

(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

First off, we acknowledge God is first speaking of quickening Sarah's dead womb at old age. He did so by Abraham doing His word of promise and laying with Sarah to conceive and have the son promised long ago.

Abraham staggered not in unbelief, but by believing God he lay with Sarah and God quickened her womb to conceive and bare a son in her old age. This is why Isaac is said to be born after the Spirit in Gal 4.

The promise of the NT Gospel is if we like Abraham do our part, and repent of sinning, we are freely given a whole new heart and life with all things now being of God, and nothing of the devil from the past.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

If we don't do our part and repent, and go on with our own religion of continued sinning, then we make ourselves born of the bondwoman as was Ishmael.

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

The unrepented continue in a religion of continued servitude to sin, while us that repent go on to the freedom of sinning no more.



God's only proposition to all sinners everywhere is His commandment to repent of all our transgressing.

The good news for Jesus' sake is washing away all the past life without Christ, to now have the whole new life without sinning in Christ Jesus.




Correct. No man is acceptable to God by just repenting of sinning. We must do so for Jesus' sake.

Those not repenting aren't even as though they were seeking justification by Christ. They aren't seeking justification at all, because they aren't seeking righteousness first by repenting of unrighteousness.



There is no believer in Jesus Christ without first repenting of dead works. His faith is only given with a new heart to them that do repent.

This is senseless sophistry dressed up with pseudo humility.

No man is loving God more by knowingly sinning more.

You're preaching let us sin that grace may abound.

Man's unrighteousness does not commend the righteousness of God. by showing how our unrighteousness is not His righteousness.

It only shows we are unrighteous still by doing such things.

Can you please take 1 question at a time per post?

re Abraham and faith
It is odd that you would take up the case of Abraham as a repentance example, because 1, the term is not in the narrative, 2, Paul says he is commended for what he did before circumcision was a requirement (that is the main example from him). Paul was using his example to counter the ceremony of circumcision. and 3, the faith based seed of Abraham had faith, not an ancestry, of which Isaac was only a temporary picture.

I'm not sure you understand the NT understanding of these things at all.

 

[EarlyActs]

I don't read any difference int he Bible between being righteous vs 'perfectly' righteous. We are either doing righteousness or unrighteousness. We are either righteous or unrighteous.

Perfectness in Christ is learning how to continue doing the same righteousness through all temptations and tribulations.

The god of this world tries to make difference between righteousness and 'perfectly' righteous. That's just word play for not doing righteousness at all times, but still doing the unrighteousness not yet repented of.

The subject of 2 Cor 5 is not about human activity! It is not about human actions! This is the blind spot that you totally cannot see about. The text is speaking of a historic one-time transaction in Christ, which the offer still stands to this day, for our benefit.

 

[EarlyActs]

I am a person. When I repented of sinning, I didn't need to be told fornication, theft, idolatry, drunkenness, lying, foul cursing, etc...is sinning.

I was already an expert at that stuff.

People keep doing works of the flesh, because they haven't repented and saved from this sinning by Jesus. People who teach such unrepented Christianity, pretend their 'newborn' proselytes just don't yet really 'know' what sin is. They need time to 'learn' that lasciviousness isn't 'cool' with Christ.

Paul never speaks of repented newborns needing to learn what sinning is. He only speaks of newborns with a weak conscience, who have not yet learned our liberty in the law of Christ.

And yet 150 years of treating alcoholism shows that people don't even know that they are 'using' other people, even 'using' God. They have learned that it is normal to do so. It has to be unlearned. As this addictive behavior damages so many relationships, there is no point in talking about their need for justification before God until they have learned, through crisis, what a single healthy relationship is.

Thanks for talking and sticking to just one topic per post.

 

[EarlyActs]

Now let's look at the Scripture with clear eyes of faith and righteousness:

(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

First off, we acknowledge God is first speaking of quickening Sarah's dead womb at old age. He did so by Abraham doing His word of promise and laying with Sarah to conceive and have the son promised long ago.

Abraham staggered not in unbelief, but by believing God he lay with Sarah and God quickened her womb to conceive and bare a son in her old age. This is why Isaac is said to be born after the Spirit in Gal 4.

The promise of the NT Gospel is if we like Abraham do our part, and repent of sinning, we are freely given a whole new heart and life with all things now being of God, and nothing of the devil from the past.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

If we don't do our part and repent, and go on with our own religion of continued sinning, then we make ourselves born of the bondwoman as was Ishmael.

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

The unrepented continue in a religion of continued servitude to sin, while us that repent go on to the freedom of sinning no more.



God's only proposition to all sinners everywhere is His commandment to repent of all our transgressing.

The good news for Jesus' sake is washing away all the past life without Christ, to now have the whole new life without sinning in Christ Jesus.




Correct. No man is acceptable to God by just repenting of sinning. We must do so for Jesus' sake.

Those not repenting aren't even as though they were seeking justification by Christ. They aren't seeking justification at all, because they aren't seeking righteousness first by repenting of unrighteousness.



There is no believer in Jesus Christ without first repenting of dead works. His faith is only given with a new heart to them that do repent.

This is senseless sophistry dressed up with pseudo humility.

No man is loving God more by knowingly sinning more.

You're preaching let us sin that grace may abound.

Man's unrighteousness does not commend the righteousness of God. by showing how our unrighteousness is not His righteousness.

It only shows we are unrighteous still by doing such things.

re THE PROPOSITION
As you can't absorb analogies, I will try to avoid. There are others.

All the same, 2 Cor 5 or Rom 5 are not about our immediate behavior or lack thereof. They are about what has been done in Christ, for which we benefit by faith, in the same way as being named in a life insurance policy or an estate settlement (ooops, there I go with an analogy again).

 

[Ghada]

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

If you want to prove by the Bible your theory of repenting from unbelief. You need to actually choose a verse that has 'repent' and 'unbelief' in it.

EX: Repent ye of your unbelief... (Of course there's no such verse in the Bible)

unless you deny Him as your Saviour when you are already saved by Him for simply believing in Him, even in His name.

So, if we deny Him, He will not deny us. Or He will deny us, but not deny us heaven...

You have to be saved to even enter that race for the high prize of our calling to be crowned as that vessel unto honor in His House.

True. It's called repenting of sinning for Jesus' sake, and being washed clean and saved by grace from all past sinning.

We now run righteously and holily with a pure heart and clean conscience, without lusting and transgressing against God.

Those doing such things aren't in the right race. Religion for unrepented sinners are running wild elsewhere.

Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

That is why many are called but few are chosen...

Many hear, but few repent.

to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven as there will be an excommunication of those reprobates as disqualified because they are in works of iniquity that denies Him for why He is denying them attendance to the Supper.

True. No one while doing such things shall inherit the kingdom of God.

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

 

[EarlyActs]

Now let's look at the Scripture with clear eyes of faith and righteousness:

(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

First off, we acknowledge God is first speaking of quickening Sarah's dead womb at old age. He did so by Abraham doing His word of promise and laying with Sarah to conceive and have the son promised long ago.

Abraham staggered not in unbelief, but by believing God he lay with Sarah and God quickened her womb to conceive and bare a son in her old age. This is why Isaac is said to be born after the Spirit in Gal 4.

The promise of the NT Gospel is if we like Abraham do our part, and repent of sinning, we are freely given a whole new heart and life with all things now being of God, and nothing of the devil from the past.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

If we don't do our part and repent, and go on with our own religion of continued sinning, then we make ourselves born of the bondwoman as was Ishmael.

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

The unrepented continue in a religion of continued servitude to sin, while us that repent go on to the freedom of sinning no more.



God's only proposition to all sinners everywhere is His commandment to repent of all our transgressing.

The good news for Jesus' sake is washing away all the past life without Christ, to now have the whole new life without sinning in Christ Jesus.




Correct. No man is acceptable to God by just repenting of sinning. We must do so for Jesus' sake.

Those not repenting aren't even as though they were seeking justification by Christ. They aren't seeking justification at all, because they aren't seeking righteousness first by repenting of unrighteousness.



There is no believer in Jesus Christ without first repenting of dead works. His faith is only given with a new heart to them that do repent.

This is senseless sophistry dressed up with pseudo humility.

No man is loving God more by knowingly sinning more.

You're preaching let us sin that grace may abound.

Man's unrighteousness does not commend the righteousness of God. by showing how our unrighteousness is not His righteousness.

It only shows we are unrighteous still by doing such things.

Those not repenting aren't even as though they were seeking justification
It's hard to follow triple negatives!

The as though would never apply to the seeking. All people need justification, but many deny they need it. It only applies to the righteousness needed to be justified, which can never be within us, anymore than the Amazon river could be within our digestive system. Thus it is credited, imputed, reckoned, accounted, which are all terms you never learned.

 

[EarlyActs]

Just to save us all time, Ghada, there is no question of the need for repentance. There is the question of its value relative to the infinite righteousness of Christ, which can never be within a person's life or existence. It's infinite value must be accessed another way, which is what imputation or crediting is. It answers their debt, which is also more than the sum of their own sins, because we are in Adam from birth.

 

[Ghada]

re Peter
from what I have read from you, he is condemned because he is not a real "Perfect" Christian.

From what I read of you, at times you purposely reshape things of others to justify yourself.

That includes the apostles.

You say that only total repentance of all sins,

Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

even ones you don't know you will do, is good enough;

You know you will do them, because you haven't repented of them.

I know I won't, so long as I keep the faith of Jesus to overcoming all temptation and tribulation with Him.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

it has nothing to do with Christ's cross alone.

Exactly. There is no such as thing as being saved by Christ's cross alone, as there is no being justified by one's faith alone.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

I demand a step by step explanation of what Peter's status is

I could demand you quote me accurately, rather than reshaping my words for effect. But...

or you should stop posting; it is that simple.

But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.

Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

You have set yourself up as God as judge of all these things, so it should be a piece of cake to do so.

Thanks. You acknowledge I've been preaching God's words.

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

I'm not judging anyone personally. I'm certainly not someone judging all other Christians by my own faith and life. Some think they are the example for all Christians, because they declare all Christians must be still ongoing sinning as themselves.

Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

Doing righteousness at all times is only a sin and curse to them still doing unrighteousness. It defiles their conscience just to hear of it, much less want to see it.

That's why Cain tried to have a little talk with Abel. But after he'd had enough of trying to put some sense into his head, and accept at least some sinning from time to time, then he just gave up on him...

 

[EarlyActs]

Now let's look at the Scripture with clear eyes of faith and righteousness:

(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

First off, we acknowledge God is first speaking of quickening Sarah's dead womb at old age. He did so by Abraham doing His word of promise and laying with Sarah to conceive and have the son promised long ago.

Abraham staggered not in unbelief, but by believing God he lay with Sarah and God quickened her womb to conceive and bare a son in her old age. This is why Isaac is said to be born after the Spirit in Gal 4.

The promise of the NT Gospel is if we like Abraham do our part, and repent of sinning, we are freely given a whole new heart and life with all things now being of God, and nothing of the devil from the past.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

If we don't do our part and repent, and go on with our own religion of continued sinning, then we make ourselves born of the bondwoman as was Ishmael.

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

The unrepented continue in a religion of continued servitude to sin, while us that repent go on to the freedom of sinning no more.



God's only proposition to all sinners everywhere is His commandment to repent of all our transgressing.

The good news for Jesus' sake is washing away all the past life without Christ, to now have the whole new life without sinning in Christ Jesus.




Correct. No man is acceptable to God by just repenting of sinning. We must do so for Jesus' sake.

Those not repenting aren't even as though they were seeking justification by Christ. They aren't seeking justification at all, because they aren't seeking righteousness first by repenting of unrighteousness.



There is no believer in Jesus Christ without first repenting of dead works. His faith is only given with a new heart to them that do repent.

This is senseless sophistry dressed up with pseudo humility.

No man is loving God more by knowingly sinning more.

You're preaching let us sin that grace may abound.

Man's unrighteousness does not commend the righteousness of God. by showing how our unrighteousness is not His righteousness.

It only shows we are unrighteous still by doing such things.

re senseless sophistry
There is something utterly missing from your communication. I'm all for repentance. But it does not justify; not if you know the meaning of it. You think justification is another of many (or the first of many) human experiences. A vital knowledge, yes, but not an experience like any other.

Rom 1-3 is a court case. In this court case, the sins of all people are enumerated, including the fact that some who were better informed of the upcoming list were awful at behaving. But both kinds are found condemned. And there is no payment from humans that could ever answer the amount. So the Judge of All, stepped down, in mercy, and took the place of all--if they would realize that, if they would not deny that they need such justification from sins.

That stepping down is not an experience in your or my life or any other sinner's life. It was the historic event of Christ, who lived a life of perfect righteousness in addition to taking the punishment of all this.

That is the grace of God, and yes, it causes repentance among other things. 'Why would you do those things which you are now ashamed of?' asks Romans 6.

So I hope you will stop disagreeing where there is none, and accept that the grace of God is the historic event.

as for the woman, it is quite true that the more a person realizes their sin, the more love in return for the grace of God. The Pharisees minimized theirs. What is senseless about that?

 

[EarlyActs]

From what I read of you, at times you purposely reshape things of others to justify yourself.

That includes the apostles.



Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.



You know you will do them, because you haven't repented of them.

I know I won't, so long as I keep the faith of Jesus to overcoming all temptation and tribulation with Him.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


Exactly. There is no such as thing as being saved by Christ's cross alone, as there is no being justified by one's faith alone.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.



I could demand you quote me accurately, rather than reshaping my words for effect. But...


But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.

Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

Thanks. You acknowledge I've been preaching God's words.

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

I'm not judging anyone personally. I'm certainly not someone judging all other Christians by my own faith and life. Some think they are the example for all Christians, because they declare all Christians must be still ongoing sinning as themselves.

Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

Doing righteousness at all times is only a sin and curse to them still doing unrighteousness. It defiles their conscience just to hear of it, much less want to see it.

That's why Cain tried to have a little talk with Abel. But after he'd had enough of trying to put some sense into his head, and accept at least some sinning from time to time, then he just gave up on him...

Please address one question per post.

re Peter. Do you condemn him at the moment he is in sin, whether at the transfiguration or in ministry later and being pressured by the Judaizers? Why not? You are an absolutist and here you have been full of condemnation for any one who is not perfect at all times because you think the righteousness of God is in a person's experience.