What if God, willing to. . . .

[Carbon]

Does it make sense to use use 2 Peter 3:9 to teach God is not willing that any should perish, when Rom 9:22 declares God is willing for reprobates to perish.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter.

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: Romans 9.

After reading these, does it not make sense that 2 Peter 3:9 is for the elect?

 

[CrowCross]

Does it make sense to use use 2 Peter 3:9 to teach God is not willing that any should perish, when Rom 9:22 declares God is willing for reprobates to perish.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter.

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: Romans 9.

After reading these, does it not make sense that 2 Peter 3:9 is for the elect?

What nuance of the meaning of willing are you saying the bible is using? Is it a wish? desire? decree? demand?

 

[Carbon]

What nuance of the meaning of willing are you saying the bible is using? Is it a wish? desire? decree? demand?

What do you think it is?

 

[Alive]

Does it make sense to use use 2 Peter 3:9 to teach God is not willing that any should perish, when Rom 9:22 declares God is willing for reprobates to perish.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter.

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: Romans 9.

After reading these, does it not make sense that 2 Peter 3:9 is for the elect?

I sure don’t have all the answers, but I suspect this does relate to His elect and that this speaks to our sanctification somehow. When examining these things, we need to employ all of what scripture has to say.
What does “ any of us” refer to?

 

[CrowCross]

What do you think it is?

I don't think it's a decree or demand. The bible does speak of people perishing.

 

[Carbon]

What does “ any of us” refer to?

Personally, I believe the bible was written for and to believers/Christians. Considering also 2 Peter is written to believers as it shows from the beginning of the letter, it has to mean believers. I also believe it suppors our soverigne God, andHe will not forget anyone.

When it uses willing, I believe we can be sure God will get those who are His. He is patient and waiting for all to come to repentance. He talks in this way to us (condensends to us who are His) so we can better understand.

 

[Carbon]

I don't think it's a decree or demand. The bible does speak of people perishing.

Well I believe we have to interpret the implicit by the expliciet.

Considering some are fitted for descruction, because He is willing to show His wrath? Scripture teaches, God loves some and hates some.

God is not willing any should perish? If God is not willing any, as in all of Adams posterity not to perish, it would show a couple things. One being, did He know some He wished to get saved wouldnt?

 

[Alive]

Personally, I believe the bible was written for and to believers/Christians. Considering also 2 Peter is written to believers as it shows from the beginning of the letter, it has to mean believers. I also believe it suppors our soverigne God, andHe will not forget anyone.

When it uses willing, I believe we can be sure God will get those who are His. He is patient and waiting for all to come to repentance. He talks in this way to us (condensends to us who are His) so we can better understand.

That was what my query was pointed at…US.

 

[Carbon]

The bible does speak of people perishing.

Of course it does. But not of those Christ dies for.

 

[Alive]

Of course it does. But not of those Christ dies for.

Exactly. Proof texting in scripture must be done carefully. Some are not easily grasped as Peter spoke of some of what Paul wrote. We now after the canon has been completed, have a grand perspective with which to examine all using solidly held and arrived at axioms.

 

[Carbon]

I don't think it's a decree or demand. The bible does speak of people perishing.

Besides, dosent "not willing", work so much better with "patience?"

Consider the kindness, mercy and love in those words together.

The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.

 

[Carbon]

Exactly. Proof texting in scripture must be done carefully. Some are not easily grasped as Peter spoke of some of what Paul wrote. We now after the canon has been completed, have a grand perspective with which to examine all using solidly held and arrived at axioms.

Amen brother!

 

[Carbon]

Besides, dosent "not willing", work so much better with "patience?"

Consider the kindness, mercy and love in those words together.

The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.

And what promise is there to the vessels prepared for wrath?

The Lord is not slow about His promise

Would it fit for those prepared for wrath?

 

[CrowCross]

Well I believe we have to interpret the implicit by the expliciet.

Considering some are fitted for descruction, because He is willing to show His wrath? Scripture teaches, God loves some and hates some.

God is not willing any should perish? If God is not willing any, as in all of Adams posterity not to perish, it would show a couple things. One being, did He know some He wished to get saved wouldnt?

I'm thinking if the Holy Spirit opens your heart you're gonna get saved.

 

[CrowCross]

Besides, dosent "not willing", work so much better with "patience?"

Consider the kindness, mercy and love in those words together.

The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.

It's kinda like...are you willing to see a child get hit by a car? Of course not. But it happens. I too am not willing that a child gets hit by a car. But, it happens.

 

[Papa Smurf]

Hello Brother (@Carbon), the question that I'd like to add here is the same one that I asked on your other thread (concerning 2 Peter 3:9), why would God, who declares the end from the beginning .. e.g. Isaiah 46:9-10, choose to be longsuffering towards someone who He already knows will ~NEVER~ come to saving faith in Him

The answer is, He wouldn't, rather, He is longsuffering towards the saints/elect "to be", towards those who He already knows ~WILL~ (eventually) come to saving faith in Him.

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf

2 Peter 3​

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.​

 

[Ritajanice]

I'm thinking if the Holy Spirit opens your heart you're gonna get saved.

Yes, only the Holy Spirit can open our heart to become Born Of God’s seed.

Man is incapable and wouldn’t know how to do this...as it’s an act of God ( supernatural).

You don’t need to read any bible either for that to happen...plus you don’t need to be highly intellectual...or have a phd ...that won’t get you into God’s Kingdom.....God looks at our “ heart”......he doesn’t look at how intellectually clever you are...

God does everything according to His will...all for his purpose and plan ,all to bring Glory to the Father / Son ....it’s the Holy Spirit in my heart who witnesses Gods truth...how else would we know that we are Born Again....we need that testified with our spirit.....of course much more to it than that.

God by His Spirit bringing us to repentance/ Godly sorrow...bringing us to believe in Jesus....gifting us faith when he births us in the spirit/ Spirit gives birth to spirit!....the natural man could never understand any of this.....only the Spirit of God can bring us from death to life in Christ.

My way of explaining/ understanding/ testimony and belief.

We all understand God and he speaks to us all very differently...as long as what he speaks to our heart/ spirit lines up with the penned word.

If it doesn’t then it wasn’t from the Spirit.

 

[Papa Smurf]

The answer is, He wouldn't, rather, He is longsuffering towards the saints/elect "to be", towards those who He already knows ~WILL~ (eventually) come to saving faith in Him.

Whoops The part in bold above (from Post #16) should have said that, "He is longsuffering towards the elect, saints "to be"......

We are elect/chosen in Him from before the foundation of the world .. e.g. Ephesians 1:4-5, LONG before we are justified/saved by Him and become "saints".

Very sorry about the confusion.

--Papa Smurf

 

[JIM]

Does it make sense to use use 2 Peter 3:9 to teach God is not willing that any should perish, when Rom 9:22 declares God is willing for reprobates to perish.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter.

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: Romans 9.

After reading these, does it not make sense that 2 Peter 3:9 is for the elect?

A fundamental problem here is your appeal to Romans 9 in support of your argument. That comes from the misguided tendency for Calvinists to see the entire chapter in terms of the unconditional predestination of individuals to their eternal destinies. But unconditional individual election and reprobation are not the point of this chapter. The entire chapter deals instead with God's faithfulness in all his dealings with the nation of Israel. And that is the subject of verses 22 and 23.

Go back to the very beginning of the chapter to see what Paul is talking about. After presenting all the benefits accrued to his "brothers, his kinsmen according to the flesh", Paul exclaims in verse 6, "it is not as though the word of God has failed". He then proceeds to show throughout the rest of the chapter that God has the sovereign right to choose and use both individuals and nations in whatever ways He pleases for the accomplishment of His covenant purposes without obligating Himself to their salvation. No one "resists His will" in such matters (v.19). These verses are simply reaffirming God's right, like a potter, to manipulate His clay in any way He chooses. His objects of wrath in v.22 are not the total mass of lost human beings, but rather the nation of Israel, specifically the ethnic Jews who rejected God's promises of grace and were thus accursed (9:3).

There is so much more to be said about this chapter. But my point is that Chapter 9 of Romans makes no statement about God's wanting any to perish. There is nothing in Romans 9 that would limit 2 Peter 3:9 to be limited to "the elect". 2 Peter 3:9 stands as a complete rejection of the Calvinist view of unconditional predestination of individuals to their final destinies.

 

[Carbon]

A fundamental problem here is your appeal to Romans 9 in support of your argument. That comes from the misguided tendency for Calvinists to see the entire chapter in terms of the unconditional predestination of individuals to their eternal destinies. But unconditional individual election and reprobation are not the point of this chapter. The entire chapter deals instead with God's faithfulness in all his dealings with the nation of Israel. And that is the subject of verses 22 and 23.

Go back to the very beginning of the chapter to see what Paul is talking about. After presenting all the benefits accrued to his "brothers, his kinsmen according to the flesh", Paul exclaims in verse 6, "it is not as though the word of God has failed". He then proceeds to show throughout the rest of the chapter that God has the sovereign right to choose and use both individuals and nations in whatever ways He pleases for the accomplishment of His covenant purposes without obligating Himself to their salvation. No one "resists His will" in such matters (v.19). These verses are simply reaffirming God's right, like a potter, to manipulate His clay in any way He chooses. His objects of wrath in v.22 are not the total mass of lost human beings, but rather the nation of Israel, specifically the ethnic Jews who rejected God's promises of grace and were thus accursed (9:3).

There is so much more to be said about this chapter. But my point is that Chapter 9 of Romans makes no statement about God's wanting any to perish. There is nothing in Romans 9 that would limit 2 Peter 3:9 to be limited to "the elect". 2 Peter 3:9 stands as a complete rejection of the Calvinist view of unconditional predestination of individuals to their final destinies.

Go back to the beginning and read again. Anyone who does not close their eyes to the scripture teaching can plainly see individuals.