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What end time view do you hold to?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 6
  • Start date Start date

What Eschatology is your view?


  • Total voters
    15
I don't hold any eschatological view and whenever I see Christians using the names for those views it is confusing to me. I know I am stupid. It doesn't interest me in the slightest except for a general second coming of Christ. I find the whole area of eschatology unfruitful and divisive.
 
Dispensationalism ( this is addressed in the smaller book ) does not put forth 2 bodies for Christ.
But, it does claim that there will be saved people who are not in the body of Christ.
 
But, it does claim that there will be saved people who are not in the body of Christ.
No...what it claims is that all will be saved through faith in Christ. The distinction is that the church is not Israel.

Pages 54-58 with *many* references.

 
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I don't hold any eschatological view and whenever I see Christians using the names for those views it is confusing to me. I know I am stupid. It doesn't interest me in the slightest except for a general second coming of Christ. I find the whole area of eschatology unfruitful and divisive.
A lot of people feel this way. However ~25% of the Bible deals with prophecy. Much of that prophecy is Eschatological in nature. So simply tearing 25% of the Bible out because it's uncomfortable and difficult isn't the answer either.

This isn't an attack btw...just pointing out why there *is* an interest in it and many discussions around it.
 
Dispensationalism ( this is addressed in the smaller book ) does not put forth 2 bodies for Christ.
I did not say it "put forth," I said some presented scenarios which required two different bodies of Christ, they not even seeing it as a problem.
 
Dispensationalism ( this is addressed in the smaller book ) does not put forth 2 bodies for Christ.
Good. That's what I thought...

Haggee would be wrong then. And he would teach Jesus having two bodies?
 
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I don't hold any eschatological view and whenever I see Christians using the names for those views it is confusing to me. I know I am stupid. It doesn't interest me in the slightest except for a general second coming of Christ. I find the whole area of eschatology unfruitful and divisive.
Then if you wanted an Eschatology, perhaps Amillenialism would be your favorite...
 
No...what it claims is that all will be saved through faith in Christ. The distinction is that the church is not Israel.

Pages 54-58 with *many* references.

But Israel is the Church?
 
Good. That's what I thought...

Haggee would be wrong then. And he would have Jesus having two bodies?
I honestly haven't delved into Haggee all that much and wonder why everyone attempts to make him the spokesperson for Dispensational thought.

If he's proposing multiple ways of salvation then he's wrong.

Now I've heard people say that theoretically there are two methods of salvation...One by obeying the Law perfectly, and the other through Christ alone by faith alone ect...but I would hope that no-one is attempting to run that up the flagpole. No-one other than perhaps John Wesley would salute.
 
No.

Read the book, troublemaker. :)
I may have to read the book. I usually look for motivation on Forums to read a book. If the book can defend the thought that the Church is not Israel, AND ISRAEL IS NOT THE CHURCH while being One Body; that would be great...

But at first glance, it seems indefensible to me. This appears to draw an insurmountable distinction, which demands only two Categories...

I know that Man and God are two Categories, but they are also One Category in Christ. Likewise, how are the Church and Israel two Categories; and One Category: IE the One Body of Christ?
 
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I may have to read the book. I usually look for motivation on Forums to read a book. If the book can defend the thought that the Church is not Israel, AND ISRAEL IS NOT THE CHURCH; that would be great...

But at first glance, it seems indefensible to me. This appears to draw an insurmountable distinction, which demands only two Categories...

I know that Man and God are two Categories, but they are also One Category in Christ. Likewise, how is the Church and Israel two Categories; and One Category, IE the Body of Christ?
That is addressed. Mind you the book will likely explain this differently so don't take my noodling's as what it says. It's just how I personally think it works out.

The church is a group made up of individuals. Both "jew" and "gentile". Saved in Christ. The church is the bride of Christ and has a specific purpose in time. The church's function on earth will be fulfilled at a certain time as well.

Israel is a people group. Ethnic, distinct from the church, different promises from the gentiles, and partially hardened ( under a curse ) for the sake of the church at this time. They are the wife of God. They will be saved at a future date in Christ as promised for a particular purpose. What is meant by "all Israel" has yet to be seen.

Both groups saved by Christ. Both in Christ. Different purposes.

Clear as mud? Good. Go read.
 
That is addressed. Mind you the book will likely explain this differently so don't take my noodling's as what it says. It's just how I personally think it works out.

The church is a group made up of individuals. Both "jew" and "gentile". Saved in Christ. The church is the bride of Christ and has a specific purpose in time. The church's function on earth will be fulfilled at a certain time as well.

Israel is a people group. Ethnic, distinct from the church, different promises from the gentiles, and partially hardened ( under a curse ) for the sake of the church at this time. They are the wife of God. They will be saved at a future date in Christ as promised for a particular purpose. What is meant by "all Israel" has yet to be seen.

Both groups saved by Christ. Both in Christ. Different purposes.

Clear as mud? Good. Go read.
That makes sense...

I suppose a good way to say it to a Calvinist, is that the One Body of Christ consists of Old Covenant SAINTS and New Covenant SAINTS...

IE Saint Moses and Saint Paul are of the Body of Christ...
 
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Saint Moses isn't part of the Body of Christ? 😉
Im saying no to, Dispensationalism. :giggle: Because I'm Amil.

Of course, Moses is part of the body of Christ (a member of the church).
 
Then I suggest you take that up with the Seminary he's been teaching in for many many years.
Cop out.

He's not here. This discussion is going on in this thread with these posters, not Vlach. If and when Vlach shows up I will gladly discuss the matter with him, quoting him from his own books, articles, and lectures (as well as Watts, Darby, Chafer, Ryrie, Walvoord, Ice, and others).
But I can already tell you that Vlach and the other authors acknowledge the history of Dispensationalism, the objections, and all the sharp edges.
Doubtful. He misrepresents the history often. All the leading Dispensationalists appeal to the ECFs' use of "dispensation," but any search of the ECFs' usage shows three facts: 1) they rarely use the term, 2) when they do use it they use it in context of the covenants and 3) they never use it hermeneutically as Dispensationalists do. Vlach (and others) misrepresent this. They do the same with premillennialism, claiming premillennialism has been around since the ECFs, which is true, BUT the Dispensational version did not. It was literally invented in the mid-1800s. Vlach knows there are problems and he knows the Progressive Dispensationalists (like Blaising, Bock, and Saucy) have been attempting to reconcile, work out, or remove them, and Vlach treats them as if they are traditional Dispensationalists when they are not.

I used to be Dispie. Didn't know there was any other way to think or believe. A friend showed me otherwise and DOVE into the history of eschatology (not just Dispensationalism). I've followed the evolution from the ECFs through Augustine, the Reformation, the Restoration Movement, etc. up through today. That's why I offered to post original source content.
It would be nice if the Amil and Postmil side did the same.
Well this apostmil can.

Your post is a red herring.
 
No...what it claims is that all will be saved through faith in Christ. The distinction is that the church is not Israel.

Pages 54-58 with *many* references.

The "church" is the body of Christ. Everyone who gets saved immediately becomes part of the "church", whether Jew or Gentile; in fact, saved Gentiles are grafted into spiritual Israel (a.k.a. the Body of Christ, the Church, etc.).
 
The "church" is the body of Christ. Everyone who gets saved immediately becomes part of the "church", whether Jew or Gentile; in fact, saved Gentiles are grafted into spiritual Israel (a.k.a. the Body of Christ, the Church, etc.).
Y'all keep saying that. I, personally, don't see it that way. Obviously.

So have fun in the bubble. If any of you decide to take the time to read the material I've suggested then hit me up. You know where I'm at.

Grace and peace
 
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