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What end time view do you hold to?

What Eschatology is your view?


  • Total voters
    15
I think the recent kerfluffle with Epstein Island, Islam, Ukrain, and what is currently *not* being said puts that too the test.....
I do not measure scripture by secular "news" reports. I measure the time in which I live by well-rendered scripture. Epstein, Islam, Ukraine are all eschatologically irrelevant.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if Satan has his boot on the neck of the church so that Christ would have to come to rescue her.
How do you reconcile that with Jesus' statement the gates of hell would not prevail? Gates are a defensive device. They are defensive, NOT offensive. The implication of Jesus' comments is that it is the Church on the offense and hell on the defense. James wrote, "Resist the devil and he will flee." What kind of enemy is it that flees when resisted? Paul said those wearing the "armor of God" extinguish ALL satan's fiery schemes. Presumably, that would include any and all attempt at standing on the Church's neck.

Satan is a minion.
 
The gospel has definitely spread much further since the earliest days, which is not surprising.
Not only so, but it victoriously overcome and assimilated every competing worldview it encountered. It did so with various times of ebb and flo and, imo, there is no reason to think any current waning is permanent or will continue in perpetuity.
Slavery and sex-trading are still rampant today.
Irrelevant. Their existence is not the point of dispute. The premise the world is worse of is the point in dispute and if slavery and sex-trading are two measures of that claim then the world remains markedly better off than at any time in written history, and if there is a current increase there is nothing in scripture or secular news report to prove this is a permanent condition.
The main difference being that these things are not so commonly approved of today, so they are often hidden from sight.
Which is evidence on the side of proving the world has improved and is not in decline, and improved because of the gospel.
Nowadays, war is not so often fought with guns and bombs (although there is still quite a lot of that!) but with psychology, propaganda, corruption, control of food, medicine, fuel, information, etc..
Yes, it is the human condition, but the point is that war wasn't just normal; it was desired and anticipated. That's no longer the norm and the fact it's not the norm is evidence of an improved world.
Many evolutionists still believe in spontaneous generation (the non-creationist ones, which is most of them), they call it "abiogenesis".
LOL!

Yes, of course, but that's not the same as believing flies were birthed from meat left out too long.



Let me add another observation to all in attendance. While eschatology is considered by most a lesser doctrine, the fact is it matters because the way a person thinks the world will end has a great deal of influence on how they live now, and where there are inconsistencies between the two there is evidence of either bad eschatology, bad Christian living, or both. Any Christian who believes the world is going to hell in a handbasket and will be raptured off the planet any day now ought to live in a manner consistent with that belief. Likewise, any Christian believing the "Cultural Mandate," and "Great Commission" still apply ought to live in a manner consistent with that belief.

Everyone read through the thread now, and again in five days, and see how well this happens.
 
I do not measure scripture by secular "news" reports. I measure the time in which I live by well-rendered scripture. Epstein, Islam, Ukraine are all eschatologically irrelevant.
Ever since Jesus ascended we have been living in eschatological times. When the apostles asked Jesus a time question ( when will the Kingdom come about ) He gave a time answer ( You can't know the day...but these things... ). So ignore the news ( I've yet to see a non-secular news report btw ) at your own risk.
 
How do you reconcile that with Jesus' statement the gates of hell would not prevail? Gates are a defensive device.

Gates were also where judgements were handed down. The proclamation of Messiah defeats the judgement of death. Just a point you might want to consider.

They are defensive, NOT offensive. The implication of Jesus' comments is that it is the Church on the offense and hell on the defense.

The church has the distinct honor to be the means of the proclamation of the Gospel. It does not and cannot save a single soul. It assaults no walls. It merely stands on the truth.

James wrote, "Resist the devil and he will flee."

Right...resist. Not fight. Not fire the cannon. The only sword the Christian has is the Word. When Satan tempted Jesus...Jesus answered with Scripture. Resist.

What kind of enemy is it that flees when resisted?

One that finds no foothold for his lies.

Paul said those wearing the "armor of God" extinguish ALL satan's fiery schemes. Presumably, that would include any and all attempt at standing on the Church's neck.

Presumably.

Satan is a minion.

Satan is a creature. Just like you and me. Older, far more powerful, smarter, more theologically knowledgeable. Even so a creature none the less. The book of Job shows how God treats with the Accuser.
 
Not only so, but it victoriously overcome and assimilated every competing worldview it encountered. It did so with various times of ebb and flo and, imo, there is no reason to think any current waning is permanent or will continue in perpetuity.
I agree that the gospel overcomes all competing worldviews; however, what does that mean in practice? It does not necessarily mean that Christians become the majority, nor that they come to be in charge of the various institutions of human power.

Irrelevant. Their existence is not the point of dispute. The premise the world is worse of is the point in dispute and if slavery and sex-trading are two measures of that claim then the world remains markedly better off than at any time in written history, and if there is a current increase there is nothing in scripture or secular news report to prove this is a permanent condition.
I'm sure that everyone would agree that a reduction in slavery and the sex-trade is a very good thing; however, I don't think that that kind of thing is good measure of the success of the gospel. Successful gospel preaching is preaching the gospel faithfully, as led by the Lord. You might, or might not, see tangible results, but they are not the measure to use.

Which is evidence on the side of proving the world has improved and is not in decline, and improved because of the gospel.
Wherever the gospel spreads, it results in various improvements; but, once a country has the gospel (e.g. the U.S.), it does not mean that there will continue to be a trend of improvement.

Yes, it is the human condition, but the point is that war wasn't just normal; it was desired and anticipated. That's no longer the norm and the fact it's not the norm is evidence of an improved world.
The financiers continue to desire and anticipate war (financing and supplying arms to both sides). The twentieth century was one of the worst for warfare in history.


LOL!



Yes, of course, but that's not the same as believing flies were birthed from meat left out too long.
Details, details...

Let me add another observation to all in attendance. While eschatology is considered by most a lesser doctrine, the fact is it matters because the way a person thinks the world will end has a great deal of influence on how they live now, and where there are inconsistencies between the two there is evidence of either bad eschatology, bad Christian living, or both. Any Christian who believes the world is going to hell in a handbasket and will be raptured off the planet any day now ought to live in a manner consistent with that belief. Likewise, any Christian believing the "Cultural Mandate," and "Great Commission" still apply ought to live in a manner consistent with that belief.
Every Christian should seek to fulfil his calling, including his part in the Great Commission, whether he sees an upward or downward trend in society. The perception of a trend should make no difference to his desire to live out and spread the gospel.


Everyone read through the thread now, and again in five days, and see how well this happens.
I'd be surprised if there are any Christians here, who, as a matter of policy, do not want to live out and spread the gospel; in fact, I would have to wonder if they really were Christians.
 
How do you reconcile that with Jesus' statement the gates of hell would not prevail? Gates are a defensive device. They are defensive, NOT offensive. The implication of Jesus' comments is that it is the Church on the offense and hell on the defense. James wrote, "Resist the devil and he will flee." What kind of enemy is it that flees when resisted? Paul said those wearing the "armor of God" extinguish ALL satan's fiery schemes. Presumably, that would include any and all attempt at standing on the Church's neck.

Satan is a minion.
2 Th 2:1-12.
 
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