What end time view do you hold to?

[Deleted member 6]

Haha


Professed?

All we can go by is their profession. But their life will be their testimony.

 

[Carbon]

All we can go by is their profession. But their life will be their testimony.

But your meaning Christianized?

 

[Deleted member 6]

But your meaning Christianized?

What exactly are you driving at, if I may ask?

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

What exactly are you driving at, if I may ask?

 

[Josheb]

Modified postmil. The millennium is now, and Jesus comes to conclude at some time in the future, but that is not the end of the world or time.

 

[Deleted member 5]

Uh...

 

[Josheb]

So, the church loses out in the end. She has failed her mission to make disciples of (not in) all the nations. Christ has to come and rescue his defeated bride, who lost out to Satan.

Was that rhetorical? Sounds like a valid criticism of Dispensationalism, not what Carbon and David are saying.

@Carbon , @David1701 , there was a time when the gospel was localized to the Mediterranean. Then only to Europe and the near east. Most of the world at that time was not Christian. Even in our contemporary, post-postmodern setting where Christianity may not be as predominant as it was a century or two ago, it is still hugely more pervasive than during the Reformation, the Schism, the ECFs. We, for the first time in human history, can measure the world from a position of former pervasiveness and theological and scientific advancement previously unknown to humanity. There was a time when slavery and child sex-trading was the norm. There was a time when men went out to wage war every spring. There was a time when doctors thought it was a good thing to blood-let and spontaneous generation was the rule of thought.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Uh...

Your conversation reminded me of this clip.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Was that rhetorical? Sounds like a valid criticism of Dispensationalism, not what Carbon and David are saying.

Except it isn't.

@Carbon , @David1701 , there was a time when the gospel was localized to the Mediterranean. Then only to Europe and the near east. Most of the world at that time was not Christian. Even in our contemporary, post-postmodern setting where Christianity may not be as predominant as it was a century or two ago, it is still hugely more pervasive than during the Reformation, the Schism, the ECFs. We, for the first time in human history, can measure the world from a position of former pervasiveness and theological and scientific advancement previously unknown to humanity. There was a time when slavery and child sex-trading was the norm. There was a time when men went out to wage war every spring. There was a time when doctors thought it was a good thing to blood-let and spontaneous generation was the rule of thought.

All of these things are still ongoing. And, believe it or not, gaining ground. Except the bloodletting. That's just creepy and weird.

 

[Carbon]

What exactly are you driving at, if I may ask?

You want to play questions?

 

[Carbon]

Your conversation reminded me of this clip.

And the clip is?

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

And the clip is?

Are you saying you can't see the clip?

 

[Carbon]

Are you saying you can't see the clip?

Which clip? How can I see what I don’t know what it is?

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Which clip? How can I see what I don’t know what it is?

Isn't it obvious?

 

[Carbon]

Isn't it obvious?

What, you want to play questions?

What’s your name?

 

[Josheb]

Except it isn't.

All of these things are still ongoing. And, believe it or not, gaining ground. Except the bloodletting. That's just creepy and weird.

They are going ground and may be gaining ground, but they are NOT anywhere near the magnitude in frequency, severity or duration of ancient times and the chief reason for that is the gospel.

Let me also suggest a concept to everyone germane ot this op: apocalypse. The Dispensationalists are BIG on this. They believe -actively embracing eagerly looking forward to - the world is and will go to hell in a handbasket any day now. The Church will not prevail over the gates of hell on this side of the rapture; it will become increasingly impotent and need rescue. The Church will need rescue, not the earth.

In the secular arena we have the exact same belief system dressed up in pagan "mother-earthism," and reported to us as "population explosion", "global warming," and "climate change," etc. In other words, the depraved of the world also think the world is going to go to hell in a handbasket any day now and there's nothing we can do about it. The secular messiah (government) will have to come rescue the earth.


If Genesis 1:27 and Matthew 22:20 are true and to be taken as written, then what we observe and experience now is simply and solely a temporary condition and it has no bearing on God's already-decided timing regarding Christ's return.


<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>


I'd also like to float another concept by everyone: the premise of The Second Coming. There's no such thing is scripture. The phrase doesn't exist. We are told Jesus will come "A" second time, but there's nothing in the Bible that states that "second time" is the last time. Furthermore, The Hebrews 9 text explicitly states that coming "again" will be for "salvation without reference to sin," "salvation apart from sin." This is important because both the Dispensational rapture and millennial reign returns have everything to do with sin. The same is true of the Amil and Postmil view of Jesus coming to gather everyone for the final judgment. The author of Hebrews makes that statement after having state humans live once and then face judgment.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

They are going ground and may be gaining ground, but they are NOT anywhere near the magnitude in frequency, severity or duration of ancient times and the chief reason for that is the gospel.

I think the recent kerfluffle with Epstein Island, Islam, Ukrain, and what is currently *not* being said puts that too the test. In the US the obvious in your face form of slavery and sex trafficking have been quashed by Christian Ethics...but those very ethics are under attack and falling left front and center. Just look to the entire LGBTQblahdeblah movement and equity/cancel culture.

Let me also suggest a concept to everyone germane ot this op: apocalypse. The Dispensationalists are BIG on this. They believe -actively embracing eagerly looking forward to - the world is and will go to hell in a handbasket any day now. The Church will not prevail over the gates of hell on this side of the rapture; it will become increasingly impotent and need rescue. The Church will need rescue, not the earth.

Let me suggest a good book ( again ). It's relatively short and cheap.

Dispensationalism: Essential Beliefs and Common Myths: Vlach, Michael J: 9780979853920: Amazon.com: Books

Dispensationalism: Essential Beliefs and Common Myths [Vlach, Michael J] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Dispensationalism: Essential Beliefs and Common Myths

www.amazon.com

In the secular arena we have the exact same belief system dressed up in pagan "mother-earthism," and reported to us as "population explosion", "global warming," and "climate change," etc. In other words, the depraved of the world also think the world is going to go to hell in a handbasket any day now and there's nothing we can do about it. The secular messiah (government) will have to come rescue the earth.

/points at book

If Genesis 1:27 and Matthew 22:20 are true and to be taken as written, then what we observe and experience now is simply and solely a temporary condition and it has no bearing on God's already-decided timing regarding Christ's return.

*blink* Genesis 1:27? Matthew 22:20? Are you sure that's what you wanted to put there?


<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>

I'd also like to float another concept by everyone: the premise of The Second Coming. There's no such thing is scripture. The phrase doesn't exist.

Neither does "Trinity" and yet here we are. But oddly enough I sort of agree on this point. How many times did Jesus return to the earth after his ascension? More than once I'll wager.

We are told Jesus will come "A" second time, but there's nothing in the Bible that states that "second time" is the last time.

Well...to be fair there is a "coming" of Jesus that is referred too by angels and John. Which one that is and what number isn't given. Tradition. Again. But at least one of those returns is going to be apocalyptic.

Furthermore, The Hebrews 9 text explicitly states that coming "again" will be for "salvation without reference to sin," "salvation apart from sin." This is important because both the Dispensational rapture and millennial reign returns have everything to do with sin. The same is true of the Amil and Postmil view of Jesus coming to gather everyone for the final judgment. The author of Hebrews makes that statement after having state humans live once and then face judgment.

Not sure what you are saying here. Jesus will return for His bride ( Rapture ). Then the Great Tribulation in the midst of the last 7 years. Then "Armageddon" in Jesus destroying the ancient enemies of Israel on the Megiddo Plain. Then the restoration of Israel and Jesus reigning on earth a thousand years. There will be both "saved" and "unsaved" peoples on the earth. Then the Judgement. Then the remaking of heaven and earth. It's complex and it's fun to noodle on.

 

[Eleanor]

They are going ground and may be gaining ground, but they are NOT anywhere near the magnitude in frequency, severity or duration of ancient times and the chief reason for that is the gospel.

Let me also suggest a concept to everyone germane ot this op: apocalypse. The Dispensationalists are BIG on this. They believe -actively embracing eagerly looking forward to - the world is and will go to hell in a handbasket any day now. The Church will not prevail over the gates of hell on this side of the rapture; it will become increasingly impotent and need rescue. The Church will need rescue, not the earth.

In the secular arena we have the exact same belief system dressed up in pagan "mother-earthism," and reported to us as "population explosion", "global warming," and "climate change," etc. In other words, the depraved of the world also think the world is going to go to hell in a handbasket any day now and there's nothing we can do about it. The secular messiah (government) will have to come rescue the earth.

I wouldn't be surprised if Satan has his boot on the neck of the church so that Christ would have to come to rescue her.

If Genesis 1:27 and Matthew 22:20 are true and to be taken as written, then what we observe and experience now is simply and solely a temporary condition and it has no bearing on God's already-decided timing regarding Christ's return.


<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>


I'd also like to float another concept by everyone: the premise of The Second Coming. There's no such thing is scripture. The phrase doesn't exist. We are told Jesus will come "A" second time, but there's nothing in the Bible that states that "second time" is the last time. Furthermore, The Hebrews 9 text explicitly states that coming "again" will be for "salvation without reference to sin," "salvation apart from sin." This is important because both the Dispensational rapture and millennial reign returns have everything to do with sin. The same is true of the Amil and Postmil view of Jesus coming to gather everyone for the final judgment. The author of Hebrews makes that statement after having state humans live once and then face judgment.

 

[Carbon]

I wouldn't be surprised if Satan has his boot on the neck of the church so that Christ would have to come to rescue her.

He surely would if God allowed him too.

 

[David1701]

Was that rhetorical? Sounds like a valid criticism of Dispensationalism, not what Carbon and David are saying.

@Carbon , @David1701 , there was a time when the gospel was localized to the Mediterranean. Then only to Europe and the near east. Most of the world at that time was not Christian. Even in our contemporary, post-postmodern setting where Christianity may not be as predominant as it was a century or two ago, it is still hugely more pervasive than during the Reformation, the Schism, the ECFs. We, for the first time in human history, can measure the world from a position of former pervasiveness and theological and scientific advancement previously unknown to humanity. There was a time when slavery and child sex-trading was the norm. There was a time when men went out to wage war every spring. There was a time when doctors thought it was a good thing to blood-let and spontaneous generation was the rule of thought.

The gospel has definitely spread much further since the earliest days, which is not surprising.

Slavery and sex-trading are still rampant today. The main difference being that these things are not so commonly approved of today, so they are often hidden from sight.

Nowadays, war is not so often fought with guns and bombs (although there is still quite a lot of that!) but with psychology, propaganda, corruption, control of food, medicine, fuel, information, etc..

Many evolutionists still believe in spontaneous generation (the non-creationist ones, which is most of them), they call it "abiogenesis".