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Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?

You wrote "Changes of language, does not change His words spoken today, the same as yesterday", but the KJV is a change of content in addition to a change of language, so the KJV does change God's Word into something other than God's Word for Genesis 2:16-17.
No one is arguing for a certain translation.

The argument is from Scripture teaching what all people know by being created in God's will and lightened by Christ coming into the world: The freedom to choose good or evil, and life or death.

Deu 30:19I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Eze 33:11Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

And everyone knows anyone arguing against having the freedom to choose good or evil, are only justifying themselves for choosing evil, as though they had no choice. "It's not my fault, I coudn't help myself."
 
The Truth (John 14:6) is that the Word of God (John 1:14) is the same yesterday and today and forever (Hebrews 13:8).

The Word of God content recorded in the Hebrew language with Genesis 2:16-17 of yesterday (relatively speaking) fails to be matched by the English language content produced by the KJV human translators of today (relatively speaking); therefore, you do not have the Word of God for Genesis 2:16-17, but you have the traditions of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9) for your maltranslated KJV Genesis 2:16-17.

You wrote "Changes of language, does not change His words spoken today, the same as yesterday", but the KJV is a change of content in addition to a change of language, so the KJV does change God's Word into something other than God's Word for Genesis 2:16-17.



So, you would eagerly eat the culinary dish from the example, after all, you did write "Impressive".

You exhibited disregard for accurate translation from the Hebrew language to the English language respecting Genesis 2:16-17 as demonstrated in post #236, so God caused me to present the culinary example expressing the essential requirement for translational accuracy, and you were dismissive the culinary example with your "No".

If the Lord Wills, then I shall return to address more of your post #57.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

Hi I would offer.

It would seem you are following the re-incarnation. . . false gospel ??

Freed will

The one wage of sin is death, never to rise to new spirit life. .

Adam and Eve are used to signify Christ and the church . Adam as Christ the speaker not seen and the Eve the church or bride the prophet Priestess, the preacher . They failed the test according to the "letter of the law" death (thou shall not or in dying your flesh returns to dust.)

Their spiritless bodies of the unredeemed returns to the dust and temporal Spirit of Life returned to the Father of born again spirit life .

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Adam again as the head is used to represent Christ he was to protect the wife Eve from false prophecy (neither shall you touch) Believing the lie (neither shall you touch) they both ate of the forbidden fruit . Giving them a lust for the things not seen .Hid in the center. Hid from the lust of the eye When seen ate of the fruit of unrighteousness self-righteousness ,

The first false prohecy. . surely you will not die look with lust after my beautiful false pride

His method of operation

The two building blocks of false pride .. lust or wonder after the things not seen fulfilling the lust by eating its corrupted fruit . Believe the lie false prophecy (neither shall you touch )

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

A freed will by the kind of "spiritual food (daily bread) which the disciples knew not of .Powerful faithful food that worked in the powerless Son of man Jesus. Empowering him to finish the work of the ."Let there be" and "it was God alone good "

We eat or are strengthened by faith. . The unseen spiritual. not by sight .

Not Like Adam and Eve believing the false prophecy of Lucifer. "Neither shall you touch it" . The father of lies adding to the word.

The key to faith "Both" to will and empower dying mankind to perform the goods pleasure of the powerful love.

John 4:33-35King James Version33 Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
 
Still waiting to see how freewill offering is not with freewill.

I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.

You failed to acknowledge that God is not speaking in Ezra 7:13. In Truth (John 14:6), your italicized words are from the pagan King Artaxerxes as per Ezra 7:11, so that is not the Word of God imparting freewill into man!

Artaxerxes lived about one half millennia after Moses.

Especially using one's own freewill to travel, when freely allowed.

Which are minded of their own freewill to freely go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.

The time during the life of the person, Moses, who purportedly used the term "freewill offering" is the proper focal point for this discussion.

The Maltranslation "Freewill Offering", From Masoretic Texts by English Translators​

Almighty God impels people to make an offering in the Old Testament, in Truth (John 14:6).

During the lifetime of Moses, this sequence of Hebrew letters אביהוא carried a specific contextual significance for a Hebrew language fluent person hearing or reading this Hebrew word.

During the Exodus, the same timeframe as Moses, another sequence of Hebrew letters נדב carried a specific contextual significance for a Hebrew language fluent person hearing or reading the Hebrew word. By the way, this is the Hebrew root word that has been translated "freewill offering".

The original language Holy Scripture communicae must be comprehensively transferred to a target language in order for the target language communicae to be called Biblical; otherwise, the target language is a broken Biblical translation, or, more accurately, an unholy translation.

These Hebrew words are masked, even a mystery for a person not fluent in or unfamiliar with the Hebrew language.

The Hebrew word אביהוא translates into English as "He is Father".

The Hebrew word נדב translates into English as "generous". Again, this is the Hebrew root word that has been translated "freewill offering".

The Hebrew word אביהוא has been transliterated into English as "Abihu" (Strong's 30 - אֲבִיהוּא - Abihu - אביהוא - abh - an Israelite name, He is Father (links to biblehub.com/hebrew/30.htm)).

The Hebrew word נדב has been transliterated into English as "Nabab" (Strong's 5070 - נָדָ֨ב - Nadab - נדב - ndb - an Israelite name, generous, noble (links to biblehub.com/hebrew/5070.htm)). This is the Hebrew root word for the Hebrew word which has been incorrectly translated as "freewill offering".

Let us examine a passage where these names are mentioned as transliterations:

Now Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron (Leviticus 10:1, NASB)
Now, let us examine the same passage where these names are mentioned as translations:

Now Generous and He is Father, the sons of Aaron (Leviticus 10:1, NASB)
The translation expresses the concept as perceived by the Hebrew language communicator around the time of the Exodus.

The Hebrew word נדבה is another word that is contemporary with the Exodus, that is, in the lifetime of Moses and Moses' slightly elder brother named Aaron.

The Hebrew word נדב (generous) is the root Hebrew word for the Hebrew word נדבה which maintains the root word concept extended to include the concept of "offering". Both of these Hebrew words share exactly the same first 3 characters.

Cumulatively, נדבה (Strong's 5071 - נְדָבָ֖ה - nedabah - נדבה - ndbh - impelled generous offering (links to biblehub.com/hebrew/5071.htm)) denotes "generous offering", not "freewill offering" which is an unholy translation that deviates from the contemporary root word meaning of "generous".

Let us examine a passage where נדבה is translated into the deceptive form of "freewill offering" as the English translators and linguists abandon the Hebrew root word נדב (generous):

They received from Moses all the contributions which the sons of Israel had brought to perform the work in the construction of the sanctuary. And they still [continued] bringing to him freewill offerings every morning. (Exodus 36:3, NASB)

Now, let us examine the same passage where נדבה is translated into the truthful form of "generous offering" adhering to the Hebrew root word נדב (generous):

They received from Moses all the contributions which the sons of Israel had brought to perform the work in the construction of the sanctuary. And they still [continued] bringing to him generous offerings every morning. (Exodus 36:3, NASB)
Self-described linguistic expert Brian H. Wagner, Ph.D. neglects the Hebrew word חפשי which also occurs during the timeframe of Moses life.

The Hebrew word חפשי translates to the concept represented in by the English word free.

continued to post #244
 
continued from post #243

The concluding word in the following verse is חפשי (Strong's 2670 - חָפְשִׁי - chophshi - חפשי - chphsh - free):

But if the slave plainly says, "I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free," (Exodus 21:5).
The Hebrew word חפשי (free) is entirely different from the Hebrew word נדב (generous). The Hebrew language has these two distinct words for two distinct purposes.

The Hebrew word חפשי conveys the concept of free, liberated, detached, autonomous. This Hebrew word of חפשי (free) does not appear as a modifier to the concept of a person's will nor God's Will in all of Holy Scripture.


The Hebrew word נדב conveys the concept of generous, liberally, freely, plentiful. By extension, the Hebrew word נדבה (generous offering) maintains the meaning of it's root Hebrew word נדב (generous). All of these words are used in the Book of Exodus - all within the lifetime of Moses:

So this means the concepts expressed by these words must remain consistent.
Since חפשי (free) is not part of נדבה (generous offering), then wicked men practice the lawlessness (Matthew 7:21-23) of using "free-will offering" for נדבה (generous offering) after those men have been shown the Truth (John 14:6).

The Septuagint version of Exodus 35:29 reads:

And every man and woman whose mind inclined them to come in and do all the works as many as the Lord appointed them to do by Moses- they the children of Israel brought an offering to the Lord. (Exodus 35:29, Brenton)
The Septuagint Translation of the Old Testament (Torah) contains "an offering" with no mention of "freewill", so freewill is absent.

Freewill is not a part of the Hebrew word נדבה (generous offering) of which the English Bible translators/linguists moved from "freely" (plentiful, generous, abundant) over the centuries into "freewill", so "freewill offering" is not found in the Old Testament, but "impelled generous offering" is found in the Old Testament, and this Scriptural explanation demonstrates this fact.

At the time of the Exodus, when a person who spoke the Hebrew language heard the Hebrew word נדבה, then that person thought of the concept "generous", not "free-will", but truly "impelled generous offering"!

The written Hebrew language was a consonant only alphabet at the time of the Exodus during the lifetimes of Moses and Aaron.

Thousands of years later, vowels were introduced into the written Hebrew language. The Masoretes with their Masoretic Texts of post seventh century A.D. to pre fourteenth century A.D. added niqqud, in Hebrew orthography, a system of diacritical signs (dots and points) used to represent vowel letters in the formerly exclusively consonant written Hebrew alphabet.

Currently, the Masoretic words of נָדָ֨ב (nadab, generous, Strong's 5070) and נְדַב (nedab, to volunteer / offer freely, Strong's 5069) and נָדַב (nadab, to incite / impel, Strong's 5068) originate from exactly same Hebrew word of נדב (ndb, generous, Strong's 5070), and the evidence of this reality is visible by the removal of the Masoretic vowels leaving only the Hebrew consonants - just like the written Hebrew language existed in ancient times such as the lifetimes of Paul, Jesus, David, Moses, Aaron, and Aaron's son Generous (נדב).

These semantics demonstrate that distinguishing differences among נָדָ֨ב (nadab, Strong's 5070) and נְדַב (nedab, Strong's 5069) and נָדַב (nadab, Strong's 5068) is defective linguistics, even deceptive linguistics. נְדַב (nedab, to volunteer / offer freely, Strong's 5069) appears only in the Book of Ezra. נָדָ֨ב (nadab, generous, Strong's 5070) and נָדַב (nadab, to incite / impel, Strong's 5068) appear in the Book of Exodus.

The linguistic result illuminates the absence of the freewill concept from נדב (ndb, generous, Strong's 5070) while at the same time leaving the generous concept intact for נדב (ndb, Strong's 5070); therefore, נדבה (ndbh, Strong's 5071) means "generous offering", not "freewill offering", but "generous offering" in Truth (John 14:6).

The article FREEWILL AS TAUGHT IN SCRIPTURE by Brian H. Wagner, Ph.D., instructor of church history, theology and biblical languages at Virginia Baptist College, fails to accurately explain the original Hebrew language as utilized by the Israelites at the time of the Exodus.

Dr. Wagner's bio even states he is a Biblical language expert, but he fails to know the Hebrew language.

Because of this fact, Brian H. Wagner, Ph.D. is a deceiver preaching free-will of man (2 Timothy 3:13), and people following Wagner are deceived by thinking that they have a free will capable of choosing Lord Jesus Christ unto salvation despite the fact that the Word of God states unequivocally:
  • "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God exclusively chooses people.
  • "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
  • "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

This is the wrap-up to addressing of your post #57. The prior post is post #239.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.
 
You failed to acknowledge that God is not speaking in Ezra 7:13. In Truth (John 14:6), your italicized words are from the pagan King Artaxerxes as per Ezra 7:11, so that is not the Word of God imparting freewill into man!

Artaxerxes lived about one half millennia after Moses.



The time during the life of the person, Moses, who purportedly used the term "freewill offering" is the proper focal point for this discussion.

The Maltranslation "Freewill Offering", From Masoretic Texts by English Translators

Almighty God impels people to make an offering in the Old Testament, in Truth (John 14:6).

During the lifetime of Moses, this sequence of Hebrew letters אביהוא carried a specific contextual significance for a Hebrew language fluent person hearing or reading this Hebrew word.

During the Exodus, the same timeframe as Moses, another sequence of Hebrew letters נדב carried a specific contextual significance for a Hebrew language fluent person hearing or reading the Hebrew word. By the way, this is the Hebrew root word that has been translated "freewill offering".

The original language Holy Scripture communicae must be comprehensively transferred to a target language in order for the target language communicae to be called Biblical; otherwise, the target language is a broken Biblical translation, or, more accurately, an unholy translation.

These Hebrew words are masked, even a mystery for a person not fluent in or unfamiliar with the Hebrew language.

The Hebrew word אביהוא translates into English as "He is Father".

The Hebrew word נדב translates into English as "generous". Again, this is the Hebrew root word that has been translated "freewill offering".

The Hebrew word אביהוא has been transliterated into English as "Abihu" (Strong's 30 - אֲבִיהוּא - Abihu - אביהוא - abh - an Israelite name, He is Father (links to biblehub.com/hebrew/30.htm)).

The Hebrew word נדב has been transliterated into English as "Nabab" (Strong's 5070 - נָדָ֨ב - Nadab - נדב - ndb - an Israelite name, generous, noble (links to biblehub.com/hebrew/5070.htm)). This is the Hebrew root word for the Hebrew word which has been incorrectly translated as "freewill offering".

Let us examine a passage where these names are mentioned as transliterations:
Now Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron (Leviticus 10:1, NASB)​
Now, let us examine the same passage where these names are mentioned as translations:
Now Generous and He is Father, the sons of Aaron (Leviticus 10:1, NASB)​
The translation expresses the concept as perceived by the Hebrew language communicator around the time of the Exodus.

The Hebrew word נדבה is another word that is contemporary with the Exodus, that is, in the lifetime of Moses and Moses' slightly elder brother named Aaron.

The Hebrew word נדב (generous) is the root Hebrew word for the Hebrew word נדבה which maintains the root word concept extended to include the concept of "offering". Both of these Hebrew words share exactly the same first 3 characters.

Cumulatively, נדבה (Strong's 5071 - נְדָבָ֖ה - nedabah - נדבה - ndbh - impelled generous offering (links to biblehub.com/hebrew/5071.htm)) denotes "generous offering", not "freewill offering" which is an unholy translation that deviates from the contemporary root word meaning of "generous".

Let us examine a passage where נדבה is translated into the deceptive form of "freewill offering" as the English translators and linguists abandon the Hebrew root word נדב (generous):
They received from Moses all the contributions which the sons of Israel had brought to perform the work in the construction of the sanctuary. And they still [continued] bringing to him freewill offerings every morning. (Exodus 36:3, NASB)​

Now, let us examine the same passage where נדבה is translated into the truthful form of "generous offering" adhering to the Hebrew root word נדב (generous):
They received from Moses all the contributions which the sons of Israel had brought to perform the work in the construction of the sanctuary. And they still [continued] bringing to him generous offerings every morning. (Exodus 36:3, NASB)​
Self-described linguistic expert Brian H. Wagner, Ph.D. neglects the Hebrew word חפשי which also occurs during the timeframe of Moses life.

The Hebrew word חפשי translates to the concept represented in by the English word free.

continued to post #244

I would offer.

The freed, redeemed liberated will that was in bondage to sin (death )
Galatians 4: 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

The Son of man Jesus dying mankind . Inspired by the Father; prophesied . . not as I will (no power) .But you father the will with let "there be power" and it was "the God alone good kind "

The goal of Satan is to seduce dying mankind to beleive eternal God is a Jewish man as us..King of kings .

Jesus the Son of man of his own dying flesh prophesied; dead things profit for nothing, dead things return to the dust.

Living spiritual invisible sacrifice . Christ in us working with us our Emanuel

What does profit is the Spirit (power) that powerfully gives born again Spirit life .

John 6 :62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go?? thou hast the words of eternal life.
 
You failed to acknowledge that God is not speaking in Ezra 7:13. In Truth (John 14:6), your italicized words are from the pagan King Artaxerxes as per Ezra 7:11, so that is not the Word of God imparting freewill into man!
Since God offers freewill to men, so can men.

The Maltranslation "Freewill Offering", From Masoretic Texts by English Translators
Heaping up more and more explanations doesn't change God offering freewill to man.

Let us examine a passage where these names are mentioned as transliterations:
And, I am exercising my freewill not to wade through them. No thanks.
 
Very true. Not having free will is used to justify continued sinning against God.

Oh, look, your thoughts devoid of the Holy Scripture. Let's look at how God caused me to quote Holy Scripture.

God reveals that a man is accountable for his own sin (Ezekiel 18:20), and I believe God; furthermore, as with all Christians, my accountability for my sin was finished at the cross because of my Lord Jesus Christ's redemption of me. HE IS RISEN!!!

I proclaimed to you that a sinful, self-willed person never comes to God in that self-willed person's own initiative as per the Apostle Peter!

the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties
(2 Peter 2:9-10).
You grasped your free-will (which is self-will, Biblically speaking) even tighter after God caused me to cite 2 Peter 2:9-10 to you!

Your zealous manner of it goes on to accuse God as the One tempting and making and ordaining you to keep sinning.

That's of course the god of this world you preach.

"the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation" (2 Peter 2:9) is my belief, so, again, you proclaim your thoughts devoid of the Holy Scripture.

You insult the One True God and Lord Jesus Christ with your "That's of course the god of this world you preach".

As with all doctrine of Christ, once a core decision has been made about what to believe the Bible says, then all subsequent verses will be interpreted in that light.

Your doctrine is for no free will, and so you interpret 2 Peter 2 self-will against God, as being free will itself.

My doctrine is free will, and so I interpret 2 Peter as abusing free will to be self-willed against God.

You talk of your own interpretation, but God causes me to talk of God’s revelation.

know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God
(2 Peter 1:20-21).
You believe something different than the Apostle Peter's declaration.

There is absolutely nothing about free-will in 2 Peter, so your "My doctrine is free will, and so I interpret 2 Peter as abusing free will to be self-willed against God" results in:
Ghada's Testimony Apostolic Testimony
the Lord only knows how to rescue the self-willed self-righteous who do not abuse free will choice by engaging in temptation, and to keep the unrighteous who abuse free-will choosing ability under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed who abuse free-will, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties
(2 Ghada 2:9-10).
the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties
(2 Peter 2:9-10).
so your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19), Ghada, is the adulteration that demotes Almighty God while unilaterally exalting humans above the Most High God; therefore, your own interpretation adulterates Apostolic testimony into the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

And as with all such down-the-line differences of interpretation, there are always one or two verses God has written to end the debate, and get started on the right foot for all other verses.

Since God gives freewill for offerings and travel and worship, then free will given to man created in His image, is the true starting point.

As I've said, until you try to make freewill in the Bible, not freewill in life, then this is just an ongoing exercise in disagreements.

God caused me to prove that "freewill offering" is a maltranslation in post #243 to you. In Truth (John 14:6), the accurate translation is "generous offering".

No Word of God states that God imparted free-will into man, so the only wayy for you to achieve your free-will is for you to corrupt the Word of God thus you create the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

So, rather than try to continue your song-and-dance 'scholarship' routine to make freewill not freewill, you just say it isn't there.

When someone says what is written, is not written, then there is no more argument.

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

I've quoted the verses several times for you to respond to, and you just tell yourself it's not there.

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


A debate ends also when someone just starts copy and pasting his long-learned trash.

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

You're just another tired old unrepented sinner, seeking to justify yourself by your own doctrine of having no free will nor say in how you live.

All such doctrinal-only justifications end in the grave, and then God just goes right ahead and judges us all by our works, not by our doctrines.

No man will be able to play a get out of hell free doctrine-card in the judgment.

The Apostle Paul wrote "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13), so the will of the Godly is controlled by God thus we Christians are saved from the wrath of God by our loving Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

ALL PRAISE AND GLORY AND HONOR BE TO MY LORD AND MY GOD, JESUS CHRIST, THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US CHRISTIAN'S SAVING FAITH!!!

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.
 
But if the slave plainly says, "I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free," (Exodus 21:5).
The Hebrew word חפשי (free) is entirely different from the Hebrew word נדב (generous). The Hebrew language has these two distinct words for two distinct purposes.

The Hebrew word חפשי conveys the concept of free, liberated, detached, autonomous. This Hebrew word of חפשי (free) does not appear as a modifier to the concept of a person's will nor God's Will in all of Holy Scripture.

I would offer

One distinct purpose empowered by God needed to believe God

Its a gospel parable about the selling of ones daughter. to represent the church

I will not go out free: There is a cost implied . A picture of a believer bought by Christ paying the wage death the fullness of His grace

Exodus 21 4-8 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free: (not without cost) Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.
 
Since God gives freewill for offerings and travel and worship, then free will given to man created in His image, is the true starting point.

As I've said, until you try to make freewill in the Bible, not freewill in life, then this is just an ongoing exercise in disagreements.
Freewill in the Bible relates to one thing and one thing only, and is not the same as free will which the Bible never uses.

Freewill has to do with offerings that are not mandatory under the law. And they would be of the type, animal, grain, as those that were mandatory. But they still had to be done in a certain way. To say that is the starting point, the premise from which theology and doctrine should come is to utterly ignore who God is as the natural and right premise. First of all you change what the Bible means by freewill and what it pertains to, to mean free will in man. Your entire biblical focus is mankind when it ought to be God. He is the King and Ruler of all.
 
God reveals that a man is accountable for his own sin (Ezekiel 18:20), and I believe God;
All men are accountable to God for our works. Many arguing against free will, think they will not be held accountable. They are of course wrong.

furthermore, as with all Christians, my accountability for my sin was finished at the cross because of my Lord Jesus Christ's redemption of me.
Jesus made no atonement for any one's sins at the cross. He was not imputed with any sin, nor was anyone imputed with His righteousness by His death alone.

HE IS RISEN!!!
True. Only by His resurrection and repentance with faith in His resurrection, is any man's past sins atoned for by the sprinkling of His Spirit's NT blood.

I proclaimed to you that a sinful, self-willed person never comes to God
True

in that self-willed person's own initiative as per the Apostle Peter!
No self-willed person initiates any repentance and faith toward God. By their own lust, they are hardened to repentance.

Only the tender hearted with godly sorrow repent of their deeds, and have their lust taken away with the justifying faith of Jesus Christ.



"the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation" (2 Peter 2:9) is my belief,
True. The godly in Christ Jesus endure temptation without sin and trespass. They do so by the gift of Jesus' faith to walk as He walked.

Heb 2:17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Heb 4:14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.


No one committing ungodliness has the faith nor the grace of Jesus Christ.

You talk of your own interpretation, but God causes me to talk of God’s revelation.
My teaching of Scripture, is men are created in the image of God with free will to choose between good or evil. Men corrupt their freedom to do God's will, when they choose to lust against God, rather than love Him.

Jas 1:14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Self-will is one's own lust, that forsakes the liberty of the Lord. Lusting sinners must repent of their deeds, to have their lust taken away by Jesus Christ, that we may be born again with the free will of God's new creature to serve Him.



Ghada's Testimony
the Lord only knows how to rescue the self-willed self-righteous who do not abuse free will choice by engaging in temptation, and to keep the unrighteous who abuse free-will choosing ability under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority, daring, self-willed who abuse free-will, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties
(2 Ghada 2:9-10).
This is not mine.

You need to address this mysterious rubbish to the one that wrote it.

The Apostle Paul wrote "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13), so the will of the Godly is controlled by God thus we Christians are saved from the wrath of God by our loving Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

God does not control any man. The true Christ is not a soul-possessing spirit. Jesus Christ leads us by grace through faith.

Jhn 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

Rev 14:4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.


Col 1:21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Faith that must be kept by man, can be broken by will of man.
 
Freewill in the Bible relates to one thing and one thing only,
True. Being created in His image with freedom of will to choose to do good or evil. And Christ lightens every man coming into the world with the desire to choose the good.

No other creature on earth is given liberty to choose what to do, nor is lightened by Christ with power to do so.

Freewill has to do with offerings that are not mandatory under the law. And they would be of the type, animal, grain, as those that were mandatory. But they still had to be done in a certain way.
True. The law of God has always been given with freedom of choice within the law, made by free will of the obedient.

James 1:But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein,] he being not a forgetful hearer, but a hearerhe work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

The commanded law with punishment for disobedience, is with freedom of will to obey or not.

With the resurrection of Jesus Christ, all men everywhere now have freedom of will to repent for His mercy's sake, or not.



To say that is the starting point,
Being created in God's image is the starting point of free will for certain of God's creatures.

Free will to choose good or evil separates man from the beasts of the field.



Your entire biblical focus is mankind when it ought to be God.
It is God and His creation, with man being created in His image. That is the first revelation of Scripture declaring man does have free will to choose good or evil.

It destroys the pagan bondage to fate by the god of this world, and gives man the freedom to have faith toward God.

2Co 4:3But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


He is the King and Ruler of all.
Not of anyone choosing to do evil.

He is Lord over all, but not Lord of all.

Rom 10:9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
 
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True. Being created in His image with freedom of will to choose to do good or evil. And Christ lightens every man coming into the world with the desire to choose the good.
Don't say true when you do not agree with what I said. Freewill in the Bible has nothing to do with free will in man to choose or not choose Christ. If Christ lightens every man coming into the world with the desire to choose the good, then all would be saved.
No other creature on earth is given liberty to choose what to do, nor is lightened by Christ with power to do so.
My dog just chose to go outside and pretty soon he chose to come back inside. All he needed to make those choices was his need to pee and having learned that he does that outside, and after he was done, to desire to be back inside sitting beside me on the couch. They do not need to be saved because they do not sin against God. The tin man didn't have a brain but everything else that draws breath does. And btw, we are meant to use it, especially before we start shooting off our mouth.
True. The law of God has always been given with freedom of choice within the law, made by free will of the obedient.
Last time I checked, no one every always chooses to obey. Don't confuse have A will with that same will being free. Our will is acted upon and pushes us one way or another. It is not free to choose Christ for the simple reason that we don't want to give up our supposed freedom---which is really bondage. Some people are so determined to not give up their supposed freedom that they actually give credit to themselves by saying they chose Christ of their own free will. No matter what God says about it.
With the resurrection of Jesus Christ, all men everywhere now have freedom of will to repent for His mercy's sake, or not.
Would you be so kind as to show me where Scripture says that? I would expect him to tell the apostles that sometime in the forty days after the resurrection before he ascended and they would have made a record of it. Something along the lines of "Before Christ rose from the dead no man could repent, but now that he has risen, all men can repent."
Being created in God's image is the starting point of free will for certain of God's creatures.

Free will to choose good or evil separates man from the beasts of the field.
I think most would recognize that when only one part of someone's sentence is quoted to address, it is because the rest of their sentence would leave no room for argument. So I will put up my whole thought.
Freewill has to do with offerings that are not mandatory under the law. And they would be of the type, animal, grain, as those that were mandatory. But they still had to be done in a certain way. To say that is the starting point, the premise from which theology and doctrine should come is to utterly ignore who God is as the natural and right premise. First of all you change what the Bible means by freewill and what it pertains to, to mean free will in man. Your entire biblical focus is mankind when it ought to be God. He is the King and Ruler of all.
Freewill as used in the Bible is not the free will that you are speaking of. They are two entirely different things. You stated freewill in its one use in the Bible is the premise for free will in humans. The premise for all else that follows is "In the beginning God---".
Being created in God's image is the starting point of free will for certain of God's creatures.

Free will to choose good or evil separates man from the beasts of the field.

Being created in God's image in the starting point of our duty to God and creation with all that is in it. That is not an option. The fact that he made us a sentient being that as such, makes choices, does not change the fact that Adam,who was created without sin, did sin, and that changed the dynamic for man and creation. Adam's first reaction was to try and hide from God. Only grace keeps us from being extinct. But as sinners, we are God's enemy and he is ours, so we cannot come near to him even if we wanted to, which we don't.

I would call a bear mauling a camper to death pretty bad. I would call a fox getting into the hen house and slaughtering all the hens bad. In both cases, the animal made a choice. They are not responsible as we would be because they were not created as a moral agent, and the only reason they do those bad things is because of the bad thing Adam did and we are as him. I am just asking you to think clearly before you snap off stuff with the keyboard.
It is God and His creation, with man being created in His image. That is the first revelation of Scripture declaring man does have free will to choose good or evil.
Adam did. That is not true for the rest of us. Now our will is in bondage to sin. The opposite of free.
It destroys the pagan bondage to fate by the god of this world, and gives man the freedom to have faith toward God.

2Co 4:3But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
That is not what that verse says.
Not of anyone choosing to do evil.

He is Lord over all, but not Lord of all.
He can't be Lord and not Lord at the same time.

Just because someone doesn't acknowledge him as Lord does not mean he is not Lord. It is the very fact that he is Lord that makes him the judge of those who reject him. The cross both saves and condemns.
 
Since God offers freewill to men, so can men.

I would offer.

Liberated will. And it was good.

Christ's work of faithfulness strengthens the will of dying mankind. So that men can miraculously believe an invisible God has paid the full wage of sin "eternal separation" .

Food for the spirit. Food that works in dying mankind .The daily bread or called hidden manna in Rev :2:17 . Power the apostles knew not of .

John 4:33-35King James Version Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?
34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. . . . . . (of faith)

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Two kinds of meats powers. . . to will "it was good "The other dead faithless meat

The power or meat which endures

Ezekiel 16:18-20King James Version18 And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them. My meat also which I gave thee, fine flour, and oil, and honey, wherewith I fed thee, thou hast even set it before them for a sweet savour: and thus it was, saith the Lord God.

The meat that perishes. . dying mankind

Psalm 69:21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.
 
Prove Genesis 2:17 is prophecy and not just a mere statement of fact based on God's design or a simple factual statement of cause-and-effect.

Genesis 2:16-17
The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

My pleasure! In like fashion to the opening post item 1 of this thread which peoves the prophecy contained in Genesis 2:16-17, the following is proof that Genesis 2:16-17 is God’s command with an embedded prophecy.

The Meaning Of The Hebrew Words אכל(akal)/"eat" and מות(muth)/"die"in Genesis 2:16-17

In reality, the word "freely" does not appear in the Hebrew of the Genesis 2:16-17 passage. The Hebrew source word for "freely" is truly "to eat" in English for Genesis 2:16.

Also, the word "may" does not appear in the Hebrew of the passage. The Hebrew source word for "may" is truly "you will be eating" in English for Genesis 2:16.

The word "surely" can surely lead to misinterpretation of the passage since the Hebrew source word for "surely" is truly "to die" in English for Genesis 2:17.

First, we need to look at the passage, so here is Genesis 2:16 from three different angles: New American Standard Bible, Hebrew Bible, and Interlinear.

The Lord God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may freely eat;" (Genesis 2:16, NASB)
ויצו יהוה אלהים על האדם לאמר מכל עץ הגן אכל תאכל
(Genesis 2:16, Hebrew Bible, historians say accent marks for vowels did not appear in early Hebrew script)

and-commanded YHVH God unto the-man saying of-every tree of-the-garden to-eat you-eating (Genesis 2:16, Interlinear word(s) for word(s) translation of English from Hebrew)

Now, here is Genesis 2:17 from three different angles of NASB, Hebrew Bible, and Interlinear.

"but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." (Genesis 2:17, NASB)
ומעץ הדעת טוב ורע לא תאכל ממנו כי ביום אכלך ממנו מות תמות
(Genesis 2:17, Hebrew Bible, historians say accent marks for vowels did not appear in early Hebrew script)

but-of-the-tree of-the-knowledge of-good and-evil not you-eating from when in-the-day you-to-eat of-it to-die you-dying (Genesis 2:17, Interlinear word(s) for word(s) translation of English from Hebrew)

Second, we need to look at the lexical construction.

The final two words of both verses follow similar patterns. The final two words are verbs. The final two words have the same root word. The first word is the Qal (Strong's 7031 - light, swift, fleet) infinitive absolute verb form (to be). The second word is the qal (Strong's 7031 - light, swift, fleet) imperfect second person masculine singular verb form (incomplete action thus present tense applies and past tense can be included and future tense can apply).

In Hebrew grammar, the qal is the simple paradigm and simplest stem formation of the verb.

The word roots are easily distinguishable when carefully examined.

Here are the final two Hebrew words of Genesis 2:16, אכל תאכל, notice the consistent word root. Both of these words are Strong's 398 - eat.

Here are the final two Hebrew words of Genesis 2:17, מות תמות, notice the consistent word root. Both of these words are Strong's 4191 - die.

The sixth word of Genesis 2:17 is תאכל which is precisely the same word that appears as the second of the two last words at the end of the Genesis 2:16, so we have a point of reference for this word.

Notice that the Hebrew word אכל (Strong's 398 - eat) in Genesis 2:16 is not the Hebrew word חפשי (Strong's 2670 - free).

Third, it is prudent to mention that the Masoretes added the vowel accents into the Hebrew written manuscripts. The Masoretes were a sect of Jews that lived after Jesus ascended to heaven. We have earlier copies of Hebrew manuscripts that contain consonants only, so the Hebrew consonant only script is what I use here in this essay. I use the consonant only script because it more closely represents the original Hebrew writing.

Fourth, it's time to apply proper translation.

In Genesis 2:16, the final two words "אכל תאכל" (to-eat you-eating) are of significant relevance to this topic since both of these words are of the root "eat".

The first of the two words "אכל" (Strongs 398 - eat) is the infinitive verb form thus it translates to English as "to-eat"; however, some English translations use the word "freely", yet "freely" is an inappropriate translation of "eat" because the word is not the Hebrew word for "free" while it is the Hebrew word for "eat".

The second of the two words "תאכל" (Strongs 398 - eat) is the imperfect verb form thus it translates to English as "you-eating".

These two words essentially result in the first part of the command being "of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating" thus liberty of action without punishment is expressed. Also, instead of the permissive of "may" as part of the "eat" verb, it is appropriate for "will" to be part of the "eat" verb; in other words, "may eat" is the wrong translation., and "will eat" is the correct translation.

In Genesis 2:17, the final two words "מות תמות" (to-die you-dying) are of significant relevance to this topic since both of these words are of the root "die".

The first of the two words "מות" (Strongs 4191 - die) is the infinitive verb form thus it translates to English as "to-die"; however, some English translations use the word "surely", yet "surely" is an inappropriate translation of "die".

The second of the two words "תמות" (Strongs 4191 - die) is the imperfect verb form thus it translates to English as "you-dying".

These two words essentially cause the end of the command to say "day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying" thus the punishment is expressed.

continued to post #255
 
continued from post #254

Fifth, conclusions based on the above.

Since some people say proper translation of "to eat" and "to die" depend on the Hebrew language construct, so then there should be no problem switching "freely" to "surely" in Genesis 2:16; furthermore, there should be no problem switching "surely" to "freely" in Genesis 2:17; however, switching or keeping "freely" and/or "surely" causes confusion, yet God is not of confusion but of peace (1 Corinthians 14:33).

After all, "to-eat" followed by "you-will-be-eating" and "to-die" followed by "you-will-be-dying" have the same language construct of "qal infinitive absolute verb form" (to eat/to die) followed by "qal imperfect second person masculine singular verb form" (you-will-be-eating/you-will-be-dying).

The current English translation of "to eat" to "freely" is arbitrary in Genesis 2:16.

As it stands in the English translations, the translation of "to die" to "surely" is arbitrary in Genesis 2:17.

If one says that the vowel marks dictate the language construct, then such a one relies on the Masoretic Manuscript edits that the Masoretes added nearly 2,000 years after the original manuscripts, so that is arbitrary and capricous in Genesis 2:16-17.

The bottom line is that "to eat" must be translated "to eat", and "to die" must be translated "to die".

The word "freely" in the English translations of Genesis 2:16 should not be used because the underlying Hebrew word truly means "to eat".

The word "surely" in the English translations of Genesis 2:17 should not be used because the underlying Hebrew word truly means "to die".

The word "may" in the English translations of Genesis 2:16 improperly represents the underlying Hebrew; rather, the word "will" (verb future tense) is appropriate based on the underlying Hebrew word.

Genesis 2:16-17 contains a command, the word "command" in Genesis 2:16 is singular, not plural, but singular, so all of the Word of God recorded in Genesis 2:16-17 is a single command. The word "may" in Genesis 2:16 used in the English translations linguistically reduces the command to a request because the option of eating from none of the trees would be valid with the word "may"; however, with the word "will" (verb future tense) then the Integrity of a command linguistically remains intact.

For the sake of consistency, if we apply the word "may" into the last of the final two words of Genesis 2:17, just as the English translators did in Genesis 2:16, then it becomes err apparent that the word "may" fails in that position for both verses. The result for Genesis 2:17 would be essentially "day you are to eat of it to die you may be dying" thus a potential punishment is expressed, so this is ambiguous. God is precise, so ambiguous does not work.

This demonstrates that the verbs used by God to construct the final two words of Genesis 2:16 and Genesis 2:17 do not contain the word "may".

For Genesis 2:16-17 to be true to form, conjugates of "eat" must be used for each of the final two words in Genesis 2:16, and conjugates of "die" must be used for each of the final two words in Genesis 2:17.

Proper Translastion Based On The Hebrew​

First, Genesis 2:16:
and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating"

Second, please see this essay's "The Meaning Of The Hebrew Word כִּ֗י(ki)/'for'/'when' in Genesis 2:17 Comparison With Other Portions of Scripture" section explaining the usage of the grammatically accurate word "when".

Third, Genesis 2:17:
"but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying"

Fourth, properly bringing the two verses cohesively together to illuminate the entire command Genesis 2:16-17:and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying"


The word "when" proves the prophetic saying in the Word of God recorded in Genesis 2:16-17.

If the Lord wills, then I will return to continue responding to your post #60.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.
 
These two words essentially cause the end of the command to say "day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying" thus the punishment is expressed.
I do not disagree with the lexical and exegetical examination of the passage. However, a statement of pre-established cause and effect is not prophecy. You've conflated the two. Because of that conflation the premise of prophecy has not been proven. Adam and Eve were dying dead when the moment they disobeyed God, and they left Eden that way. God's statement of cause and effect had already occurred. They would die dead and, in that state, they would face judgment (Heb. 9:27 = another judgment than the one they'd just received in Genesis 3) although the verdict of that judgment had also already been decided (Jn. 3:18).
The word "when" proves the prophetic saying in the Word of God recorded in Genesis 2:16-17.
No, it does not. The word when could be a simple declaration of already-existing cause an effect. When I turn the ky in the ignition switch of my car the engine starts. There's nothing prophetic about my posting that. When I release the object, I'm holding in my had it falls to the ground due to gravity. There is, again, nothing particularly prophetic in that statement because it is nothing more than a statement about already existing causal relationship God built into the word's design.

When Adam disobeyed God the pre-established consequences of his action(s) occurred, and they occurred exactly as God had already design and informed Adam of that design and that designs causal relationship between disobedience and death. Nothing particularly prophetic about any of it.
The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.
On that I have complete agreement with both scripture and you. Humans have never been free. They have never been volitionally autonomous or without external controls. Adam did have less limits than we do because he was made good, unashamed, and sinless and he lived in a good and sinless world. Neither condition exists for anyone born after Genesis 3:6-7.
 
In reality, the word "freely" does not appear in the Hebrew of the Genesis 2:16-17 passage. The Hebrew source word for "freely" is truly "to eat" in English for Genesis 2:16.
Yes freely eat the kind of food the apostles knew not of .The powerful faith as Christ labor of love works in us to both (the key) reveal the understand of the father and empower by the father to finish the good work he began in and with believers

The bottom line is that "to eat" must be translated "to eat", and "to die" must be translated "to die".
Yes eat the fruit of false prophecy mankind dies. never to rise to new spirit life
 
Genesis 2:16-17
The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Do you think the word "you," is specifically and solely limited to Adam?

Yes, according to the Word of God recorded in Genesis 2:16-17. See "The LORD God commanded the man, saying" which is directed specifically at Adam without anyone else. Stated plainly, "the man" is exclusively the "you". Next, see the multiple occurrences of "you" are not "you and your descendants" inside of the command recorded in Genesis 2:16-17.

If Adam had not eaten the forbidden fruit prior to having children and one of his offspring ate from the forbidden tree would Genesis 2:17 apply?

But, Adam did eat of the tree forbidden as food, and God pronounced punishment on three of God's creatures that day. Here is the chronological order that God meted out judgment:
  1. First, the Serpent was judged and sentenced by God (Genesis 3:14-15), yet the serpent in not of mankind, so this fact eliminates the serpent as a party to the command recorded in Genesis 2:16-17.
  2. Second, the woman was judged and sentenced by God (Genesis 3:16), yet God said nothing to the woman about eating from the tree during her judgment and sentencing to punishment.
  3. Third, the first man, Adam, was judged and sentenced by God (Genesis 3:17), and the Word of God pronounced judgment and sentencing to punishment on Adam for very specifically eating of the tree.
Notice, the woman ate of the tree prior to the man eating of the tree (Genesis 3:6), yet God judged exclusively the man for eating of the tree.

The woman plainly admitted that she was deceived (see Eve's confession Genesis 3:13), and the Apostle Paul attributes her state of transgression to her being deceived (1 Timothy 2:13-14) - not her eating of the tree even though she ate first.

Since your question speculates about a different scenario than actual events, I decline to provide a definitive answer.

Would anyone disobeying God by eating the fruit from the forbidden tree have died?

According to actual events, your question is fruitless inquiry since Adam did eat of the tree.

Think of Paul's "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men" (Romans 5:12), so the second eater of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is attributed as the man who brought death through sin to mankind; therefore, the command with prophecy recorded in Genesis 2:16-17 applies to Adam alone, yet death through sin is inherited by all Adam's derivatives.

The Apostle also wrote "So also it is written, 'The first man, Adam, became a living soul.' The last Adam became a life-giving spirit" (1 Corinthians 15:45), so Adam is contrasted to Christ, the second Adam; therefore, the first man, Adam, gives separation from Holy God to all his progeny, yet the second Adam, Christ, gives communion with Holy God to all his progeny.

As the Word of God clearly reveals, Adam was the instigator of death through sin for violating the one and only command of God with a punishment specified prior to the man eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil recorded in Genesis 2:16-17 and Genesis 3:17.

Clearly, God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world is evident (Ephesians 1:1-14, Ephesians 2:13) during the events of Adam's time.

Essentially, the exclusive event giving rise to the need for the Christ to come rescue mankind hung on Adam's consumption of the tree forbidden as food, and God knew that Adam would consume of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil based upon the Word of God using the word "when" within the command recorded in Genesis 2:16-17.

If you have a point to make within your questions, then please state your point outright.

This concludes the examination of your post #60, and you can find the prior response at post #254.

PRAISE LORD JESUS FOR GOD'S LOVING PLAN OF REDEMPTION THROUGH THE CHRIST FOR MANKIND BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD!!!

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.
 
Yes, according to the Word of God recorded in Genesis 2:16-17. See "The LORD God commanded the man, saying" which is directed specifically at Adam without anyone else. Stated plainly, "the man" is exclusively the "you". Next, see the multiple occurrences of "you" are not "you and your descendants" inside of the command recorded in Genesis 2:16-17.
And yet Eve was the first sinner.

1 Timothy 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman, having been deceived, has come into transgression.
.
How can she be called a sinner if the "you" applies solely to the man?
But, Adam did eat of the tree forbidden as food, and God pronounced punishment on three of God's creatures that day. Here is the chronological order that God meted out judgment:
  1. First, the Serpent was judged and sentenced by God (Genesis 3:14-15), yet the serpent in not of mankind, so this fact eliminates the serpent as a party to the command recorded in Genesis 2:16-17.
  2. Second, the woman was judged and sentenced by God (Genesis 3:16), yet God said nothing to the woman about eating from the tree during her judgment and sentencing to punishment.
  3. Third, the first man, Adam, was judged and sentenced by God (Genesis 3:17), and the Word of God pronounced judgment and sentencing to punishment on Adam for very specifically eating of the tree.
Notice, the woman ate of the tree prior to the man eating of the tree (Genesis 3:6), yet God judged exclusively the man for eating of the tree.
You've left something very important out. It was not solely because Adam ate from the tree that he was punished. That part, "Because you listened to the voice of your wife...." is critically important. Why has that been neglected?
The woman plainly admitted that she was deceived (see Eve's confession Genesis 3:13), and the Apostle Paul attributes her state of transgression to her being deceived (1 Timothy 2:13-14) - not her eating of the tree even though she ate first.
Which means it was not the eating of the forbidden kiwi that was the essence of the problem. Again I ask, why have these other aspects been left out?
Since your question speculates about a different scenario than actual events, I decline to provide a definitive answer.
It is not speculation. The answer is a logical necessity that depends on how a person reads the text. For example, you say the "you" of Gen. 2:17 was spoken solely to the man (and not also the woman, and cannot be extended to anyone else), to the answer to my question would be "No, because the command was not spoken to and therefore did not apply to, anyone else." Conversely, if what God said to the man also applied to all humans, all humans living at that time and all their progeny, then the answer is, "Yes, because God expected everyone to obey that command (at least until such a time that He changed the command)."

No speculation required.
According to actual events, your question is fruitless inquiry since Adam did eat of the tree.
You do understand God entertains speculation and His doing so is never fruitless?

Exodus 4:1
Then Moses said, "What if they will not believe me or listen to what I say? For they may say, 'The LORD has not appeared to you.'"

Ezekiel 21:10-13
'Sharpened to make a slaughter, Polished to flash like lightning!' Or shall we rejoice, the rod of My son despising every tree? It is given to be polished, that it may be handled; the sword is sharpened and polished, to give it into the hand of the slayer. Cry out and wail, son of man; for it is against My people, it is against all the officials of Israel. They are delivered over to the sword with My people, therefore strike your thigh. For there is a testing; and what if even the rod which despises will be no more?" declares the Lord GOD.

Romans 9:22
What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

Dismissing my inquiries and observations is much more likely to prove fruitless than that inquiry.
Think of Paul's "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men" (Romans 5:12), so the second eater of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is attributed as the man who brought death through sin to mankind; therefore, the command with prophecy recorded in Genesis 2:16-17 applies to Adam alone, yet death through sin is inherited by all Adam's derivatives.

The Apostle also wrote "So also it is written, 'The first man, Adam, became a living soul.' The last Adam became a life-giving spirit" (1 Corinthians 15:45), so Adam is contrasted to Christ, the second Adam; therefore, the first man, Adam, gives separation from Holy God to all his progeny, yet the second Adam, Christ, gives communion with Holy God to all his progeny.

As the Word of God clearly reveals, Adam was the instigator of death through sin for violating the one and only command of God with a punishment specified prior to the man eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil recorded in Genesis 2:16-17 and Genesis 3:17.
None of which is a point in dispute.
Clearly, God's Plan of Redemption through the Christ for mankind before the foundation of the world is evident (Ephesians 1:1-14, Ephesians 2:13) during the events of Adam's time.

Essentially, the exclusive event giving rise to the need for the Christ to come rescue mankind hung on Adam's consumption of the tree forbidden as food, and God knew that Adam would consume of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil based upon the Word of God using the word "when" within the command recorded in Genesis 2:16-17.
None of which is in dispute.
If you have a point to make within your questions, then please state your point outright.
I stated my point outright.

Your claim the "when" is prophetic is an assumption on your part.

And then, when asked about it what ensues is a selective use of scripture that neglects some important aspects of the texts used.
This concludes the examination of your post #60, and you can find the prior response at post #254.

PRAISE LORD JESUS FOR GOD'S LOVING PLAN OF REDEMPTION THROUGH THE CHRIST FOR MANKIND BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD!!!

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.
Do you believe the methods by which we reach our positions is important? In other words, if two Christians hold the exact same position but one Christian arrives at that position through improperly handled scripture and the other Christian's handling of scripture is impeccable then it is the impeccable case that should be used and relied upon?

But, if the examination of Post #60 is concluded, then I suppose I should not expect and answer to that question.

Here's another question for you: What was the first command Adam disobeyed?
 
Freewill in the Bible has nothing to do with free will in man to choose or not choose Christ.
Free will is the power to choose good or evil. It is not about having freedom to serve God, which is now only by the faith of Jesus Christ.

No man has any power of will to choose Jesus as the true Christ of God.

With His resurrection, every person has power of free will by creation in God's image, to choose to repent as commanded by God in the name of Jesus, that by grace we may recieve the faith of Jesus, with His freedom and power to serve Him freely with a pure heart.

Ps 51 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

Sinners only have liberty to repent of their deeds. Saints have liberty of the Spirit to serve the Lord.

A corrupt heart of lust can repent of sinful works, but only a heart purified of lust by Jesus Christ can do the will of God.


then all would be saved.
No. If all men like Jesus chose only the good, then no man would need salvation from lust and sin.

If all men choose to repent of their deeds for Jesus' sake, then all would be saved.



They do not need to be saved because they do not sin against God.
True. The same as all newborn babes and men coming into the world.

But dogs are not created in God's image, and so they have no liberty of will to choose to do that which is not natural.

Only angels and men can choose to lust against the divine nature of being created in God's image.

Rom 1:28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness;... Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

2Pe 2:12But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;



Would you be so kind as to show me where Scripture says that?
Acts 17:30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Acts 3:19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

If man has no free will to repent or not, then all men would repent by commandment of God. Being disobedient to God is by free will not to obey Him.

Liberty to choose is either a blessing or cursing by the choice made.

Ezek 18:31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?




You stated freewill in its one use in the Bible is the premise for free will in humans.
The first proof is being created in the image of God. The Scriptures later confirm the free will of man on earth.

Being created in God's image in the starting point of our duty to God and creation with all that is in it.
And choosing to lust and sin against God, is the end of any man's service to God, and the beginning of the sinner's service to one's own lust.

Only angels and men by creation are given the power and liberty of God to choose good or evil.

Natural beasts cannot choose against the nature they are created with.


The fact that he made us a sentient being that as such, makes choices, does not change the fact that Adam,who was created without sin, did sin,
True. He exercised his free will be creation to lust and do evil.

Ezek 18:31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

and that changed the dynamic for man and creation.
He changed his own world by bringing sin into his own life.

Everyone is still created in the image of God a living soul in natural flesh, the same as Adam. Everyone has chosen to lust and change their own world and life for the worse against God.

Except Jesus Christ the second Adam.


and that changed the dynamic for man and creation.

Natural creation is not changed by angels nor men that sin. The celestial and terrestrial are still the same creation of God. It's not a sin to have mortal flesh and blood, but only a sin to disobey God with the natural body.

In both cases, the animal made a choice.

By nature alone, not by good or evil will. Nature is neither good nor evil, but only natural by the Creator's law of nature.


They are not responsible as we would be because they were not created as a moral agent, and the only reason they do those bad things
It's not bad to kill for meat. No Scripture says animals are bad nor good.

is because of the bad thing Adam did
No. The only bad effect on earth by sinning, is man laboring with sweat to produce, and women laboring in pain to reproduce.

No animals, trees, nor grass are good nor evil, but only naturally made by Christ to live, grow, and die on earth.


Adam did. That is not true for the rest of us.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Scripture does not say that sin is passed upon all men by one man's sin, but only that death is passed upon every man sinning like Adam. No man is dead to God by another man's sin against God.

Jas 1:14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

All men are still created good in the image of God, and lightened by Christ to seek and serve Him. But the free will of man, as that of angels, is to choose one's own lust and will against God.

It is Adam's transgression that brought sin into the world, so that all men are born into a world of sin. And if any man chooses to sin in this wicked world, then it is not Adam nor any other man's transgression, but his own sinning alone to die by.

Ezek 18:4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The soul that sins, dies to God. Not any soul that sinneth not against God. No man's soul dies by the sin of another. Every man commits his own sin against God by his own lust, and every man will stand alone before God to be judged by our works.

If any man repents of his own works, unlike Adam, then Jesus Christ will take away the lust, and be justified by works made righteous in the Spirit and God.
 
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