Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?

[Ghada]

Hi I would ask?

Why as it seems literalize the spiritual unseen understanding of eternal faith ?

Blood like water are metaphors used in parables to represent the unseen work (let there be) of the Father. Christ our husband

It is required we compare the spiritual eternal things "not seen" to the temporal historical "seen" Christ in us with us hiding the spiritual (faith) understanding from natural born sinners.

1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual (eternal) things with spiritual(eternal ). But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Do you agree God hides himself in parables ?

Flesh and blood without the power of unseen Spirit life of Christ is dead. lifeless spiritless blood must be poured out so it can return to dust Therefore revealing spirit life (not seen) was given

James 2: 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works of (Christ not seen ) is dead also

God is not dying mankind .

Jesus the Son of man is our brother in the lord.

I did not say kill I said bruised for our iniquity .A living sacrifice. By his wounds we are healed.

Three different prophecies during the one promised three days and nights promised demonstration.

The garden where the sufferings began. Jesus, the Son of man. Not as I will Father but you the powerful alone one . (not seen)

A demonstration fulfilling prophecy (Genesis 3 ;15 with Isaiah 53 prophecy a sign for the believers

Then the hill the tree or cross. The demonstration of the Lamb that was slain during the six days the Father did work . (Bloody dying mankind ) Using a tree as a sign to the unbelieving world as if the Son of man was murdered by a Satan inspired crowd.

Again a sign to the unbelieving world drawing some to the Father

Then the last work of the three with witness.. . the Tomb the witness of faith the father keeping the Spirit working in Jesus from complete corruption "dead never to rise" . Removing the grave clothes from the Son .Th father rolled back the stone .

Salvation a work of two working as one .Not a Satan inspired crowd

Two is a company three a crowd

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Deuteronomy 21:22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:

The first demonstration (garden) the promise of two working empowered by one. The father striking the Son bruising his heal crushing the head of the serpent

Three time Jesus tried to awake the other apostles for strength in sufferings .Three time the father put them to sleep to fulfill the prophecy of two working as one

The Satan inspired crowd receive no credit for the gospel work of the two.

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed (dying mankind) and her seed;(Christ) it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The bloody demonstration. Blood as a metaphor used in parable to represent the powerful work of the Spirit of Christ working in those yoked with His labor of love.

Bloody. .The more popular one time demonstration as a sign to the world. They love to see the blood. Jesus said when His Father sees.

Therefore we continue to walk by faith the unseen eternal .

Exodus 12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

1Ti 1:5Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned; From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

 

[Kermos]

Do you believe humans had any type or any degree of free will at any time after Genesis 3:6-7?

Dear Josheb,

God causes me to answer your question below, but your inquiry portends your failure to either read or understand the opening post or the posts which you and I exchanged since the time of the opening post. The answer to your question is "no". The following paragraph is how God had me conclude prior posts to you.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

 

[Ghada]

A warning by admin of unacceptable posting is not a threat.

Are you saying that a warning from a site manager for rules violation, does not come with any threat of enforcing the rule?

Then all such rules are meaningless, and the warnings are hollow.

(and in full not half of it so that it misrepresented you, which is what you have been doing) and show my conclusion of what you were saying

Which is exactly what we all do. We quote a certain part of what is said, and comment on it.

You give no examples of how others are making misrepresentations, but not you.

If my understanding of what you were saying was wrong it is on you to clarify.

Not if someone is making a mocking joke out of it.

I only respond to honest sincerity.

 

[makesends]

Jesus is not a respector of persons in judgment nor mercy. If any man repents of their deeds, then He will take the lust away from their hearts, and justify them by His faith toward God and His righteousness.

Likewise, if any man repents not for His mercy's sake, then He must judge them by their works.

He died for our sins to be repented of, and is risen again to justify them that repent for His salvation from lust and sin.

Which 'repenting' you do perfectly and consistently, never returning as a dog to the vomit. Unlike the rest of us who must depend on God's mercy when we do what we despise ourselves for doing.

 

[Ghada]

Which 'repenting' you do perfectly and consistently,

Perfect repentance unto God is with a whole heart, even as loving Him must be whole and complete. It's God Himself who now commands all men everywhere to repent for His Son's sake. It's His godly repentance that He has mercy for, not man's half-hearted repentance and love.

Ezek 18:31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Acts 3:19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts{11:18} When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

It's God's repentance we must pray for with a whole heart, that He freely grants unto salvation and life. Our own measured repentance by our own will and faith alone, is unacceptable to God. His dear Son died for all our sins, not just for some sins and trespasses. And, the Father demands the same measure of repentance from all our sins that slew Him, not just in part.

Jerem 3:10And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

Rev{3:15} I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. {3:16} So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

never returning as a dog to the vomit.

Never falling back to lust and sin is the blessed promise to all newborn sons of God. If we add His Son's virtue, godliness, and charity to our new faith in Jesus Christ, we can trust Him to keep us from the transgression.

2 pet 1:4 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Jde 1:24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Unlike the rest of us who must depend on God's mercy when we do what we despise ourselves for doing.

If we sin, we separate ourselves with the world from God, but also like the world, we have Jesus' advocacy with the Father for forgiveness and reconciliation to God, if we repent with godly sorrow. As the Jews that crucified the Lord, so can we repent and be grafted in again to His true vine.

Despising ourselves does no good, and is not God's will, because it produces no good fruit.

Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

2 Cor 7:10For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Despising our sin to repent is God's longsuffering will, that we may recieve mercy and faith with a whole new heart and life for God.

2Co 5:17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,

Heb 1:3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

 

[makesends]

Perfect repentance unto God is with a whole heart, even as loving Him must be whole and complete. It's God Himself who now commands all men everywhere to repent for His Son's sake. It's His godly repentance that He has mercy for, not man's half-hearted repentance and love.

Ezek 18:31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Acts 3:19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts{11:18} When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

It's God's repentance we must pray for with a whole heart, that He freely grants unto salvation and life. Our own measured repentance by our own will and faith alone, is unacceptable to God. His dear Son died for all our sins, not just for some sins and trespasses. And, the Father demands the same measure of repentance from all our sins that slew Him, not just in part.

Jerem 3:10And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

Rev{3:15} I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. {3:16} So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.


Never falling back to lust and sin is the blessed promise to all newborn sons of God. If we add His Son's virtue, godliness, and charity to our new faith in Jesus Christ, we can trust Him to keep us from the transgression.

2 pet 1:4 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Jde 1:24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.



If we sin, we separate ourselves with the world from God, but also like the world, we have Jesus' advocacy with the Father for forgiveness and reconciliation to God, if we repent with godly sorrow. As the Jews that crucified the Lord, so can we repent and be grafted in again to His true vine.

Despising ourselves does no good, and is not God's will, because it produces no good fruit.

Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

2 Cor 7:10For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Despising our sin to repent is God's longsuffering will, that we may recieve mercy and faith with a whole new heart and life for God.

2Co 5:17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,

Heb 1:3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

And thus, you handily sidestep my point with a multitude of words.

 

[Kermos]

First you freely say it isn't there,

First, I declare the word "freewill" is not in the Hebrew source language of which has been translated to the English language phrase "freewill offering" according to the Holy Spirit that indwells me. You adulterate the concepts which God causes me to proclaim.

and now you reduce to changing definitions of words.

You had a valid point of retranslating freely into abundantly. It doesn't prove anything other than legitimate alternative translations.

But freewill is free-will, free, willing, voluntary.

Bondwill is willing. Freewill does not exist, so freewill is not willing (see the thread The Unchangeableness of God and the Will of God), and bond-will is real since a will is always bonded to a host. Voluntary and generous are two different things. Your "freewill is free-will, free, willing, voluntary" is the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

The Truth (John 14:6) is that translators maltranslated נדבה (Strong's 5071 - נְדָבָ֖ה - nedabah - נדבה - ndbh - impelled generous offering (links to biblehub.com/hebrew/5071.htm)) in the milenniums after the phrase was used by Moses to mean "generous offering", not "freewill offering" which is an unholy translation that deviates from the contemporary root word meaning of "generous" at the time of Moses.

The Hebrew word נדב has been transliterated into English as "Nabab" (Strong's 5070 - נָדָ֨ב - Nadab - נדב - ndb - an Israelite name, generous, noble (links to biblehub.com/hebrew/5070.htm)). This is the Hebrew root word for the Hebrew word which has been incorrectly translated as "freewill offering".

Let us examine a passage where these names are mentioned as transliterations:

Now Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron (Leviticus 10:1, NASB)
​

Now, let us examine the same passage where these names are mentioned as translations:

Now Generous and Abihu, the sons of Aaron (Leviticus 10:1, NASB)
​

The translation expresses the concept as perceived by the Hebrew language communicator around the time of the Exodus.

The word abundantly is also a legitimate translation for the Hebrew word נדב (Strong's 5070 - נָדָ֨ב - Nadab - נדב - ndb - an Israelite name, generous, noble (links to biblehub.com/hebrew/5070.htm)), but the word "freewill" is an illegitimate and destructive translation.

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

There are honest and dishonest hereticks. Some just say they don't believe the Bible, but others try to make the Bible say something else.

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!


O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/was-adam-imparted-free-will-from-the-beginning-of-creation.1422/post-59436

You stick like you are in glue to your fraudulent freewill translation, even after you have been shown in multiple ways of the maltranslation of נדבה (Strong's 5071 - נְדָבָ֖ה - nedabah - נדבה - ndbh - impelled generous offering (links to biblehub.com/hebrew/5071.htm)). Just review your post above.

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!

 

[Ghada]

Bondwill is willing.

Not when in unwilling bondage. And yet free will remains to resist unto death, if the unwilling slave chooses.

The OT provided for servants freely consenting to lifetime service to beloved masters.

And so, whether in willing or unwilling servitude, free will remains as the gift of God being created in His image.

The revelation of Scripture rebukes the lie of pagan fatalism, as well as it's Christianized version of predeterminism.

Freewill does not exist, so freewill is not willing

A rhetorical nonsense conclusion from a lie against Scripture.

(see the thread The Unchangeableness of God and the Will of God),

Which is proof of free will that can be changed. God freely chooses to do good at all times, and not change His will to do evil.

And by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, men can freely do the same:

Rom 3:24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Mat 10:8Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Without free will, man would obey God in all things naturally without faith, the same as all created natural things and beasts of the field.

Your "freewill is free-will, free, willing, voluntary" is the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

It's Bible tradition delivering men from bondage to fate, with the power of faith to choose to act independent of nature and will of man.

Faith is free will in action, whether for the good or the bad.

The rest of your stuff is just more copy & paste pseudo-scholar talk. I don't bother with it.

Lev 22:21And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish his vow, or a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted;

Freewill in the Bible is still freewill for man.

The created Christ-angel believers play the same scholar game to change John 1:1, into the word was a god. But the Word is still God.

 

[Ghada]

And thus, you handily sidestep my point with a multitude of words.

A bunch of words?

1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

[makesends]

A bunch of words?

1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Did you not use a lot of words? Yet in spite of them all, you did not address my point. You sidestepped, just as you did again here.

 

[Kermos]

Does God have a free, autonomous will?


If God has free will then how is it free will was not commuted to Adam as an inherent part of God's image? How does God's image not also contain His volitional agency? Upon what basis is there to say being created in God's image did NOT contain His volitional agency?

Please do not repeat the statement, "God does not use willpower to perform evil against God's self." Don't just repeat your claim. You went on record saying mere repetition proves nothing. You have not shown God's image contained or did not contain willpower. It has been assumed, and assumed without any evidence, without any justification. God the willpowering Creator created man in His image without creating willpower in man. That's the basic premise upon which this point 2 of this op's "careful proof" is built. You've got to prove God's image did NOT include God's inherent and intrinsic will before you can claim Adam can't use God's image against God.

Dear Josheb,

Your argument's level one premise is "God has a free-will". Based on nothing that I have written, you extended your level one premise into your level two premise of "It has been assumed, and assumed without any evidence, without any justification. God the willpowering Creator created man in His image without creating willpower in man. That's the basic premise upon which this point 2 of this op's "careful proof" is built".

God caused me to write that man was created with a will in the past (see also the thread The Unchangeableness of God and the Will of God). No Holy Scripture states man was imparted a free-will; on the other hand, Holy Scripture does state man has a self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10), so this dispenses of your level two premise.

Now, back to your level one premise. God does not have a free-will. No Scripture states God has a freewill. With the way that you use the term free will, you indicate that there is someone greater than God who can control the God Most High. The Will of God is God's Will (1 Peter 2:15). This dispenses of your level one premise.

Man is created in the likeness of God, in God's image.

God's will is to glorify God.

Man's will is to glorify man (when man is not born of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 15:48)).

Man's will is to glorify God (when man is born of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 15:48, Romans 8:29)).

I addressed your questions.

Now, I have a question for you. I see that you're Reformed, so answering should be easy for you. Do you believe God does use willpower to perform evil against God's self?

The original post contains the Truth (John 14:6) which shows richly in Scripture that Adam was not imparted free will, so no man thereafter was imparted free will.

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE LIVING SAVIOR!!!