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Total Depravity Explained Without Reference to the Human Will

Total depravity is a phrase or name that is used to summarize what the Bible teaches about the spiritual condition of fallen man. It is the “T” in the acronym TULIP, which is commonly used to enumerate what are known as the five points of Calvinism or the doctrines of grace. Because the name “total depravity” can cause people to have wrong ideas about what is meant, some people prefer to use terms like “total inability,” “righteous incapability,” “radical corruption” or even “moral inability.” Yet what is important is not the name assigned to the doctrine but how accurately the doctrine summarizes what the Bible teaches about the spiritual condition of fallen man. No matter which name you use to refer to “total depravity,” the fact remains that when properly understood it is an accurate description of what the Bible does teach on this important subject.

While often misunderstood, the doctrine of total depravity is an acknowledgement that the Bible teaches that as a result of the fall of man (Genesis 3:6) every part of man—his mind, will, emotions and flesh—have been corrupted by sin. In other words, sin affects all areas of our being including who we are and what we do. It penetrates to the very core of our being so that everything is tainted by sin and “…all our righteous acts are like filthy rags” before a holy God (Isaiah 64:6). It acknowledges that the Bible teaches that we sin because we are sinners by nature. Or, as Jesus says, “So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.” (Matthew 7:17-18).

The total depravity of man is seen throughout the Bible. Man’s heart is “deceitful and desperately wicked” (Jeremiah 17:9). The Bible also teaches us that man is born dead in transgression and sin (Psalm 51:5, Psalm 58:3, Ephesians 2:1-5). The Bible teaches that because unregenerate man is “dead in transgressions” (Ephesians 2:5), he is held captive by a love for sin (John 3:19; John 8:34) so that he will not seek God (Romans 3:10-11) because he loves the darkness (John 3:19) and does not understand the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14). Therefore, men suppress the truth of God in unrighteousness (Romans 1:18) and continue to willfully live in sin. Because they are totally depraved, this sinful lifestyle seems right to men (Proverbs 14:12) so they reject the gospel of Christ as foolishness (1 Corinthians 1:18) and their mind is “hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is unable to do so” (Romans 8:7).

Got answer above, very insightful imo.
Total Depravity is a phrase conjured up by Calvinism and Reformed Theology that is used to describe a condition not found in Scripture. I can go through each of those verses and passages posted there and show that none of them actually establishes the bogus concept of total depravity, but it wouldn't convince the die-hard Calvinist.
 
So it could be truthfully said, that doing that, is tantamount to man building an image of God in man's image.
The irony here is that is precisely what the Reformed Theology is all about. It certainly presents God as an ogre who creates a world of human beings, the majority of whom, according to Reformed Theology, are predestined to eternal condemnation for nothing more that God's good pleasure and enjoyment.
 
Opposition to TD---and therefore distorting all that follows-----begins with a view of mankind that is not biblical, and then moves on to form a view of God that fits with that view of man----that also does not comport with God's revealed declaration of Himself that we find in the Bible.

So it could be truthfully said, that doing that, is tantamount to man building an image of God in man's image.
Exactly!...Amen!
 
Total Depravity is a phrase conjured up by Calvinism and Reformed Theology that is used to describe a condition not found in Scripture. I can go through each of those verses and passages posted there and show that none of them actually establishes the bogus concept of total depravity, but it wouldn't convince the die-hard Calvinist.
First you would have to know what the doctrine of TD is actually, and not according to your opinion of it. Also, every opposing concept would be based on the presupposition of your resistance to TD, taken into the scriptures. Something that can be done by anyone, be it one who denies the deity of Christ, denies the crucifixion, virgin birth, trustworthiness of Scripture, or anything else. But doing so will not change what God is saying in those Scriptures.

To refute the doctrine correctly you would have to start with Gen 1,2,3. Find out what they say, and then see if there is Scripture teaching that says the same things.
 
2Pet. 1:20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, 2Pet. 1:21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

Man without the Holy Spirit, are just that, trying to figure everything out from their own view point...they have no understanding of spiritual matters.

1 Corinthians 12:3New King James Version (NKJV) Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
 
First you would have to know what the doctrine of TD is actually, and not according to your opinion of it. Also, every opposing concept would be based on the presupposition of your resistance to TD, taken into the scriptures. Something that can be done by anyone, be it one who denies the deity of Christ, denies the crucifixion, virgin birth, trustworthiness of Scripture, or anything else. But doing so will not change what God is saying in those Scriptures.
Oddly enough, what you are accusing me of can be reversed to be applied to you and your opinion that scripture even alludes to TD at all.
 
2Pet. 1:20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, 2Pet. 1:21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
That is speaking of the prophet not the hearer or the reader.
Man without the Holy Spirit, are just that, trying to figure everything out from their own view point...they have no understanding of spiritual matters.
Once again you present the proposition that God is incapable of communicating effectively to the unregenerate, which is a weakness in God, not in the unregenerate.
1 Corinthians 12:3New King James Version (NKJV) Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
Here again you lay the fault at the feet of God, not the speaker. Your assumption here is that the Holy Spirit cannot influence anyone not regenerated. { edit}
 
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The doctrine of total depravity (or total inability) says that all men, as a consequence of the Fall, are born morally corrupt, enslaved to sin, at enmity with God, and unable to please Him or even of themselves to turn to Christ for salvation. (Thus the necessity of a gracious, unconditional election.)


No one in their depraved state, can bring their spirit Alive in Christ, that can only happen by divine revelation...of course the human who is void of the Holy Spirit would have no understanding of this....they just speak their own talk, we must be Born Of The Spirit to understand how depraved we are, which has taken the Lord years to get me understand just how “ depraved” we are.....

Can you tell when someone is speaking from their own ego/ pride, their own knowledge...maybe best start another topic, I cannot stand listening to “ self” speaking, it’s all about them, whereas it should be all about “ God” The grace and mercy that he has shown us.....I thank him every day for bringing my spirit Alive in His Son!...mind Blowing!!...even after 33 years of becoming Born Again by Gods Witness His Living Holy Spirit...

Praise God, morning/ noon and night.!

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Full Chapter | Parallel Translations | Explain Verse

Genesis 6:5 KJV​

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
 
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Oddly enough, what you are accusing me of can be reversed to be applied to you and your opinion that scripture even alludes to TD at all.
It is to be expected that it would be by the opposition toTD. What that suggests though is that truth is relative and cannot be known. That also leaves God and His sovereignty out of the equation. It leaves out all of redemption is of God and for God, and inserts something into the Bible that does not exist is the Bible. That being, that in order for Christ's victory on the cross to be effectual requires something from the one being redeemed. Which would cause grace to cease to be grace. IOW it would infer that some grace is needed, and Jesus dying on the cross is necessary, but that is as far as grace goes. We would not actually be saved by grace. In some cases, the objection is not to TD, but asserts that grace goes a bit farther and is necessary, and gives to all without exception "free will" to decide whether the cross was effectual for them or not, or whether or not they wanted what the cross provides. And of course in order to do either of those things, one has to understand the crucifixion and resurrection and ascension, and in understanding it, also believe it, and then reject it. Which butts right up against "Believe and you will be saved."

So, it you are bound and determined to hang on to the belief that TD is wrong, it will have to be done in ignorance. And by that I am not calling your ignorant for I in no way think that you are. I mean than you must do so in complacency, not bothering to actually begin by searching the matter out, starting with Gen 1,2, and 3. The beginning. And then, the scriptures that are used to refute TD or refute the interpretation given them from the POV of TD, see if that opposing interpretation agrees with what is said in Gen 1,2, and 3.
 
It assigns to God the creating or the forming of dead spirits that are prohibited from even obeying Him.
Don't pretend that the sinner is not wholly participating in his sin.
 
I would suggest reading Psalm 14 and then look at the context in which Paul quotes it in Romans.
Romans is one of or perhaps the most complete single epistle discussing man’s state and God’s solution.
So Paul begins by laying out the problem to be solved.
 
That is speaking of the prophet not the hearer or the reader.
It is being written to the hearer and by extension, the reader. And it is not referring to the foretelling of the OT prophets alone, but by the forthtelling of the content of that letter and all the epistles and all of the NT. The apostles appointed task---which in large part is directly connected to the types and shadows and prophecy of the OT revealed in the reality of the coming of what they prophesied----Christ. It is in fact establishing the NT writings as just a much a part of God's word as the OT.
Once again you present the proposition that God is incapable of communicating effectively to the unregenerate, which is a weakness in God, not in the unregenerate.
That is not what she is communicating at all. It is saying that only those God has regenerated are able to hear and understand. He is communicating with the unregenerate every time the sun comes up or storm clouds gather, or rain waters the earth, or drouth pervades a land. They just don't get the message.(Rom 1)
Here again you lay the fault at the feet of God, not the speaker. Your assumption here is that the Holy Spirit cannot influence anyone not regenerated. Pure foolishness. And egregiously arrogant.
The assumption is yours. The passage says nothing about the Spirit influencing the unregenerate. It is speaking of having understanding or not having understanding and where that understanding comes from.
 
Our spirit is alienated from God, dead in sin, that is until God via His Spirit decides to bring our spirit from death to life in his Son...

Ephesians 2:1-10New International Version (NIV) As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

No man can choose for that to happen..... it’s a Living spiritual birth....sorry if I’m off topic Arial....no man can know that God exists , unless he chooses to make himself known by divine revelation.

I have put some on ignore, hence not answering their posts as it’s the same old same old, best not argue to those who are closed...of course I’m also closed especially regarding total depravity, it’s biblical and I will never budge on that.

Where in the Bible does it say God knows the heart?
For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.” That brings us to Luke 16:15, which says, And he said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.”
 
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We have a pretty good idea of what gravity, time, energy and matter are. We just don't know physically why they are. We know that positive charges and negative charges are attractive and we can measure that attraction. We just don't really know physically why they are attractive. We know that in a closed system entropy tends to increase and we can measure such increases. We just don't really know physically why it tends to increase. Those of us who believe in God of the Bible tend to simply say that God is the why of all things. But, that is not a testable theory and thus does not produce a good physically satisfactory answer. But that is the way it is and I think that is the way it will remain, at least for as long as this world still exists.
What a thing is, is, according to some philosophers, involves not only what it does (of which we only know what we see), but what it is for and where it comes from, or what it is made of. We might infer what it is for, from what we see it doing, but that is assessed just about as well by us as a puppy would understand what is going on in a brain surgery theater. What it is made of we have gone way, back, or so we imagine, but are still as ignorant as when we began, not understanding what we see, and seeing very little. All we know is what we can see, and we are blind.
 
It is to be expected that it would be by the opposition toTD. What that suggests though is that truth is relative and cannot be known.
It suggests no such thing. It does suggest that truth is faith based. That becomes the result of God's not providing absolute proof of even His existence which would by and large eliminate faith as any basis for anyone honoring, following and obeying Him. But faith is key. God could just as easily have mandated all allegiance to him had that been His objective. Unfortunately, mandated allegiance is what the Reformed Theology presents as the gospel. And even worse, that theology presents mandated allegiance for only a preselected few with the rest preselected for eternal condemnation. All of that having nothing whatsoever to do with the personages of those involved and not only that but also having absolutely nothing to do with even the creation of this universe.
 
No man can choose for that to happen..... it’s a Living spiritual birth....sorry if I’m off topic Arial....no man can know that God exists , unless he chooses to make himself known by divine revelation.
The Bible is the only divine revelation that anyone past the human authors of that Bible has access to.
 
The title was the first thing I saw, which in my depraved nature had me looking for your "HA!" to bark at the Arminian and Pelagian, so bent on self-determinism: If God did not give us a choice in imputing or otherwise causing the sin nature in man, then why should we assume he gives us a choice in Regeneration? I grew up taught both, (original sin and all its implications and derivations, and synergism), causing an obvious and distressing conflict, which was only resolved by finding out that my decision is NOT the hinge of my eternity. I love to rest and rejoice in the mercy of God.

The same is obvious of many things, but when I mention them, the only one that seems to add up to anything to them, is the first one: I had no choice in existing at all, nor in my first birth. So why should my spirit being remade be my choice? How is that unjust? Because it is a matter of morality? That is what they claim. But it is a matter of being! IN HIM vs me trying to break even as if I was my own judge.

This is about God, and not us.
Precisely right! They prefer the theology of the serpent, you'll be like gods! And you will not surely die!
 
This is where some worship the Bible and don’t know that God is a “ Living “ Spirit, this is when i get extremely frustrated, but then the Lord gives me this scripture.

The Spirit testifies with our spirit...that is by divine revelation..just as the word of God is saying....we have a Living spiritual relationship with God, not the Bible, the Bible backs up what the Spirit witnesses / testifies with our spirit....anyway I will leave it there, as there is no getting through to some people....

So they are unable to understand because they are void of Gods Spirit/ they aren’t Born Of The Spirit.

Berean Standard Bible
The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them,

To understand the penned word of God one must be Born Of God’s seed...

Becoming Born Again is by divine revelation....they can’t see past the Bible...from their own carnal thinking, they have no knowledge of what divine revelation even means....we are Born Of “ The Spirit “ which is a Living spirit birth... we aren’t Born Of the Bible.
 
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What a thing is, is, according to some philosophers, involves not only what it does (of which we only know what we see), but what it is for and where it comes from, or what it is made of. We might infer what it is for, from what we see it doing, but that is assessed just about as well by us as a puppy would understand what is going on in a brain surgery theater. What it is made of we have gone way, back, or so we imagine, but are still as ignorant as when we began, not understanding what we see, and seeing very little. All we know is what we can see, and we are blind.
I am sorry, but that is simply not true. Maybe you are in the state of that puppy looking on in a brain surgery theater, but the surgeon in that brain surgery theater is not. You may be blind, but that surgeon is not. He is not all-seeing, but he is not blind.
 
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