The Rapture

[civic]

Yes.
Unless I'm being told I'm not saved or lost my salvation because of my Calvinistic views.

Ditto

 

[TheWordIsOne]

Tho the word "rapture" is not in the bible...the words "caught up" are. Harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away.
The Latin translation of that word is English comes from a Latin word, rapio....from which we get rapture.

I thought I'd clear that up for those who didn't know that.

greetings
if I may
caught up snatch away, gathered, or if people like the word rapture it is all the same, no one will know, because when the Lord reveals something, the Lord says to do everything in secret so if is caught up snatch away, gathered, the rapture no family members, or friends will know that person is missing, the Lord does everything in secret, and those he reveals, the Lord say keep it secret

"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
Matt 25:31-33 (NKJV)

But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn." ' "
Matt 13:29-30 (NKJV)

until the harvest ends
"While the earth remains, Seedtime and harvest, Cold and heat, Winter and summer, And day and night Shall not cease."
Gen 8:22 (NKJV)
separating the Lord is gathering the Lost sheep and the wheat from the tares

All things in secret

A talebearer reveals secrets, But he who is of a faithful spirit conceals a matter.
Prov 11:13 (NKJV)

The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.
Deut 29:29 (NKJV)

He answered and said to them, "Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them, it has not been given.
Matt 13:11 (NKJV)

The king answered Daniel, and said, "Truly your God is the God of gods, the Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, since you could reveal this secret."
Dan 2:47 (NKJV)

For nothing is secret that will not be revealed, nor anything hidden that will not be known and come to light.
Luke 8:17 (NKJV)

Then He touched their eyes, saying, "According to your faith let it be to you."
And their eyes were opened. And Jesus sternly warned them, saying, "See that no one knows it."
Matt 9:29-30 (NKJV)

"I know that You can do everything And that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You.
You asked, 'Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?' Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.
Listen, please, and let me speak; You said, 'I will question you, and you shall answer Me.'
"I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, But now my eye sees You.
Job 42:2-5 (NKJV)

But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.
Matt 6:3-4 (NKJV)

 

[CrowCross]

greetings
if I may
caught up snatch away, gathered, or if people like the word rapture it is all the same, no one will know, because when the Lord reveals something, the Lord says to do everything in secret so if is caught up snatch away, gathered, the rapture no family members, or friends will know that person is missing, the Lord does everything in secret, and those he reveals, the Lord say keep it secret

????? So, according to you when Millions, perhaps a billion or so people get raptured...dissapears....no one will notice?

 

[TheWordIsOne]

????? So, according to you when Millions, perhaps a billion or so people get raptured...dissapears....no one will notice?

Greetings
did not you not read the verses I just display, the Lord just might need just a hand full of people, for his purpose, not the entire planet
And the love of God knows what you feel separates family members knowing that a child, of God, would not God the Father bring one family member as well
read the verses I just display, so they would not be confusion
For many are called, but few are chosen."
Matt 22:14 (NKJV)
a hand full of people

 

[CrowCross]

Greetings
did not you not read the verses I just display, the Lord just might need just a hand full of people, for his purpose, not the entire planet
And the love of God knows what you feel separates family members knowing that a child, of God, would not God the Father bring one family member as well
read the verses I just display, so they would not be confusion
For many are called, but few are chosen."
Matt 22:14 (NKJV)
a hand full of people

The description of the rapture ends with the following verse....17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Notice it doesn't say...Then a hand full of we who are alive,

 

[TheWordIsOne]

The description of the rapture ends with the following verse....17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Notice it doesn't say...Then a hand full of we who are alive,

Yes put in secret, no one will know

"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
Matt 24:36 (NKJV)

 

[CrowCross]

Yes put in secret, no one will know

"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
Matt 24:36 (NKJV)

I agree, the timing is a secret...but the event won't be a secret.

 

[TheWordIsOne]

I agree, the timing is a secret...but the event won't be a secret.

greetings
if I know your birthday, I wish to throw you a secret birthday party, you say no one knows today was my birthday, but someone knows' they kept it secret from you and suddenly surprised!!!

the cat is out of the bag

 

[Marilyn C]

and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.[Acts 3:210-21]

Blow a trumpet in Zion, And sound an alarm on My holy mountain! Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble, For the day of the LORD is coming; Surely it is near,[Joel 2:1]

Show me from these two places that this is prior to the great tribulation. What does this explicitly show this happening prior to the great tribulation.

The period of restoration begins when the Lord with His whole Body rules from mount Zion. That is the first rulership to be restored in God`s great kingdom.

The Day of the Lord begins when the northern army comes down to the mountains of Israel. This is near the beginning of the tribulation, which will start after the Peace Treaty.

1 Thess. 5: 1 - 4 tells us that the Body of Christ will not be overtaken in that Day.

 

[TheWordIsOne]

The period of restoration begins when the Lord with His whole Body rules from mount Zion. That is the first rulership to be restored in God`s great kingdom.

The Day of the Lord begins when the northern army comes down to the mountains of Israel. This is near the beginning of the tribulation, which will start after the Peace Treaty.

1 Thess. 5: 1 - 4 tells us that the Body of Christ will not be overtaken in that Day.

Greeting
very interesting
In Daniel 11:37-39 (NKJV) He shall regard neither the God of his fathers nor honor women, nor regard any god; for he shall exalt himself above them all.
But in their place, he shall honor a god of fortresses; and a god which his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and pleasant things.
Thus, he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many and divide the land for gain.

The Peace Treaty
After (3 ½ years) then begins a jihad, is to make war, it is not a “holy war.
The word "jihad" means to "struggle" or "striving" (in the way of God or to make way) to work for a noble cause with determination; it does not mean "holy war" (war in Arabic is harb and holy is muqadassa)
A "jihad” follows a caliphate, an Arabic word khalifa meaning “successor “khalifa.”
from seven years, (3 ½ years) a “cease-fire". A Hudna, But it will last for three and half years, But in the middle of the week (3 ½ years) He, (Satan) shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

And on the wing of abomination shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.”

Revelation 13:5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 1260 days (3 ½ years)

 

[Wordsmith]

Yes it is...a view that I'm not going to be divided over.

I agree we should not be divided. Rapture timing is not a salvation issue. It is a scriptural issue and can affect the world view and daily lives of some who believe in the pre-trib version. Most of us know date setting is not something we should be involved in but some do it anyway and young unstudied Christians sometimes fall for the error and some have made unwise life decisions based on the doctrine of being snatched out before the really bad stuff happens.

One problem I see with the pre-trib doctrine (I did believe it in the past) is that when the reality hits and they are still here and may be required to lose their head (literally) for the faith will that person be strong enough when all along they thought they would escape.

I in no way believe the wrath of God will be poured out on the church (that is another topic) but Christians will face persecution, that is a scriptural fact.

 

[CrowCross]

I agree we should not be divided. Rapture timing is not a salvation issue. It is a scriptural issue and can affect the world view and daily lives of some who believe in the pre-trib version. Most of us know date setting is not something we should be involved in but some do it anyway and young unstudied Christians sometimes fall for the error and some have made unwise life decisions based on the doctrine of being snatched out before the really bad stuff happens.

One problem I see with the pre-trib doctrine (I did believe it in the past) is that when the reality hits and they are still here and may be required to lose their head (literally) for the faith will that person be strong enough when all along they thought they would escape.

I in no way believe the wrath of God will be poured out on the church (that is another topic) but Christians will face persecution, that is a scriptural fact.

I believe there will be many who become christians after the rapture.

The bible tells us the "season" "birth pangs"....and when one looks around at what's going down especially with the advent of technology and AI it seems as we are about to step into the book of Revelation.

 

[Wordsmith]

I believe there will be many who become christians after the rapture.

Can you show scripture that says that?

 

[Selah7]

Will the “rapture” precede 2 Thes. 2:3-4? No, because it is written:

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

- 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (KJV)

Folks, there is no pretrib rapture.

 

[Wordsmith]

have found myself landing in the "pre-trib" theological view.

When I read the bible I see Jesus returning twice....once at the rapture in/near/around the beginning of the 7 year tribulation period.

Where is the scripture that says Jesus will come before the tribulation?

 

[CrowCross]

Can you show scripture that says that?

Where to start....let's start with, do you think there are christians present in the tribulation?
Is Rev 13:7 speaking of Christians?

 

[CrowCross]

Where is the scripture that says Jesus will come before the tribulation?

Rev 3:10 is one from the string of verses....Because you have kept My command to persevere, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

1 Thes 5:9 is yet another...though some may see it as getting out of hell.... For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

2 Thes 2:7 can be added to the list....For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.

Where is the scripture that says Jesus will rapture the church during or after the tribulation?

 

[CrowCross]

Will the “rapture” precede 2 Thes. 2:3-4? No, because it is written:

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

- 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (KJV)

Folks, there is no pretrib rapture.

2 Thes 2:3 says...

1599 Geneva 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that the man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.

ESV Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

KJV Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

NASB No one is to deceive you in any way! For it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

For a study of the word 646. apostasia click link. The word was only used twice. The root word 868. aphistémi may help with the understanding of the word.

The word seems to have several nuances depending on the context of the verse. The verse in context is a review of 1st Thess as Paul was trying to fix the false teachings in the false letter.

The question is...what is the "apostasia" shown in red above? Is it physical or spiritual?

Is it the church falling away from the teaching of the bible....or....is it the church physically departing from the earth...as in the RAPTURE?
The 1599 version used departing and the later translators choose to use words that represent a defection rather than a physical leaving.

Right now I'm going with "Rapture". That is the idenity of anti-christ will not be know until after the rapture.

The verse can be read as follows...Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rapture comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

Folks, there is a pre-trip rapture. Are you ready?

 

[Wordsmith]

Where to start....let's start with, do you think there are christians present in the tribulation?
Is Rev 13:7 speaking of Christians?

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Yes there are Christians present during the 42 month reign od AC. Saints are Christians!

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It is Christians who's names are in the Book of Life are present and do not worship AC.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Patience and faith of Saints (Christians) who are present at this time described here.

Christians are called saints all through the NT too many references to list.

First of all there is no pre-trib rapture but since you believe there is where is the scripture that says people will be born again after?

 

[CrowCross]

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Yes there are Christians present during the 42 month reign od AC. Saints are Christians!

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It is Christians who's names are in the Book of Life are present and do not worship AC.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Patience and faith of Saints (Christians) who are present at this time described here.

Christians are called saints all through the NT too many references to list.

First of all there is no pre-trib rapture but since you believe there is where is the scripture that says people will be born again after?

You said in the above....."Yes there are Christians present during the 42 month reign od AC. Saints are Christians!"

It seems pretty obvious if there is a pre-trib rapture....that when Revelations presents christians in the trib....they obviously were born again. Do you know of any other method?