The Rapture

[Carbon]

Nice to have met you.

You are going to get raptured anyway. That is, if you truly believed in Christ.

If I am wrong and the church is raptured as you say, I won’t be complaining.

 

[Wordsmith]

The 1559 Geneva Bible had no axe to grind.

The understanding of that Rapture is a more recent insight.

So why was it translated that way if it were not a legitimate choice?

Maybe you should assume departure from the faith as context of the word in Acts implies and other NT scriptures say will happen,not departure from the planet since there is no context to come to that conclusion.

 

[GeneZ]

If I am wrong and the church is raptured as you say, I won’t be complaining.

You will be cheering...

 

[GeneZ]

Maybe you should assume departure from the faith as context of the word in Acts implies and other NT scriptures say will happen,not departure from the planet since there is no context to come to that conclusion.

My pastor who was an excellent Greek scholar showed us that its the same word derivative was used for when Satan departed from Jesus after failing in the temptation. Luke 4:13

And....

​

The Latin Vulgate Bible, around AD400, used the word decessio, which means “departure.” Seven English translations, from the Wycliffe Bible of 1384 to the Geneva Bible of 1608, all translated the word as departure or departing. The King James Bible of 1611 was the first English version to translate apostasia as “falling away.” ​

​

https://www.heraldofhope.org.au/the-rapture-is-the-departure/​

​

That link has much good information!​

 

[CrowCross]

My pastor who was an excellent Greek scholar showed us that its the same word derivative was used for when Satan departed from Jesus after failing in the temptation. Luke 4:13

And....

​

The Latin Vulgate Bible, around AD400, used the word decessio, which means “departure.” Seven English translations, from the Wycliffe Bible of 1384 to the Geneva Bible of 1608, all translated the word as departure or departing. The King James Bible of 1611 was the first English version to translate apostasia as “falling away.” ​

​

https://www.heraldofhope.org.au/the-rapture-is-the-departure/​

​

That link has much good information!​

It's hard to convince a person once they learned something a certain way.
What back when when I was studying the rapture i was somewhat persuaded by the last book I read on the rapture...whether it be pre trib. mid trib, pre wrath or post trib.

When i read that Jesus returns twice...in the way He ascended and then again on a white horse it cleared up a lot.

 

[Carbon]

It's hard to convince a person once they learned something a certain way.
What back when when I was studying the rapture i was somewhat persuaded by the last book I read on the rapture...whether it be pre trib. mid trib, pre wrath or post trib.

When i read that Jesus returns twice...in the way He ascended and then again on a white horse it cleared up a lot.

Jesus comes on a white horse, literally? Is that what you are saying?!

 

[CrowCross]

Jesus comes on a white horse, literally? Is that what you are saying?!

Pretty much. Whatever one thinks about that whitehorse event...it doesn't describe His ascension.

 

[Carbon]

Pretty much. Whatever one thinks about that whitehorse event...it doesn't describe His ascension.

Okay, just thought I would ask brother. I don’t understand the white horse as being literal myself.

 

[CrowCross]

Okay, just thought I would ask brother. I don’t understand the white horse as being literal myself.

revelations id hard to understand...and I don't claim to have all the answers...so I piece it together the best I can.

It seems as if some parts are literal while some parts are figurative.

 

[Carbon]

revelations id hard to understand...and I don't claim to have all the answers...so I piece it together the best I can.

It seems as if some parts are literal while some parts are figurative.

Amen brother

 

[Selah7]

For a study of the word 646. apostasia click link. The word was only used twice. The root word 868. aphistémi may help with the understanding of the word.

The word seems to have several nuances depending on the context of the verse. The verse in context is a review of 1st Thess as Paul was trying to fix the false teachings in the false letter.

The question is...what is the "apostasia" shown in red above? Is it physical or spiritual?

When the Antichrist appears, Christians (with the exception of the Elect) will believe that he is the real Jesus Christ and will worship him. That is the falling away, the Great Apostasy.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

- 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV)

---

That's why the pre-tribulation Rapture Theory is such a dangerous doctrine?
It sets people up for the fall,
even the great falling away.

Most people will be convinced Satan is Jesus Christ!

 

[Selah7]

The 1599 Geneva bible puts it this way.... 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that the man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.

There is a reason why the word was swapped out...changed....which has to do with the catholics and Protestants of those days.....where the RC church wanted to present the protestants as rebelling.

Hi, Crow
Departing? Well okay—a departing from the faith (because of deception).

 

[Selah7]

We need to remember that Jesus the King of kings returns at the 7th trump AFTER the Antichrist’s appearance, which is at the 6th trump.

 

[Selah7]

When i read that Jesus returns twice...in the way He ascended and then again on a white horse it cleared up a lot.

He WILL return twice. The first time Jesus came was as a baby born in Bethlehem. The second coming will be at the 7th trump as the King of kings and Lord of lords.

 

[Eleanor]

He WILL return twice. The first time Jesus came was as a baby born in Bethlehem. The second coming will be at the 7th trump as the King of kings and Lord of lords.View attachment 199

Do you mean he comes twice, and that having come once, he will return once?

 

[CrowCross]

When the Antichrist appears, Christians (with the exception of the Elect) will believe that he is the real Jesus Christ and will worship him. That is the falling away, the Great Apostasy.

Many see that as the Jews will see the anti-christ as the messiah announcing himself in the 3rd temple.

Why is your interpretation correct?

Hi, Crow
Departing? Well okay—a departing from the faith (because of deception).

I understand that. Why is your interpretation correct despite the history you have been presented?

 

[GeneZ]

Jesus comes on a white horse, literally? Is that what you are saying?!

Horse? Cross? Who would have believed it?

 

[GeneZ]

He WILL return twice. The first time Jesus came was as a baby born in Bethlehem. The second coming will be at the 7th trump as the King of kings and Lord of lords.View attachment 199

Some fail to see...

The Rapture is not His return to earth. For we will meet him in the clouds.


His second coming will be when He puts an end to the Tribulation and sets up His throne in Jerusalem. Yes!

 

[Eleanor]

The Rapture is not His return to earth. For we will meet him in the clouds.

His second coming will be when He puts an end to the Tribulation and sets up His throne in Jerusalem.

Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (John 6:39).
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16).
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Matthew 24:39-41).
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31-33).

So in terms of the time of their occurrence, the rapture is (occurs at the time of) the judgment:

the last day = resurrection = rapture = second coming = final judgment of sheep and goats (all mankind)

(and the resurrection being in the last day with the judgment of the sheep and goats--all mankind,
thereby making only one resurrection. . .of all mankind).

If one's personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8) does not locate the rapture with the judgment of the sheep and goats at the end of time, that interpretation is not in agreement with authoritative NT apostolic teaching, it is in error.

 

[CrowCross]

He WILL return twice. The first time Jesus came was as a baby born in Bethlehem.

True.

The second coming will be at the 7th trump

Look into "trump"

rapture...1 Thes 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God,

According to the post-tribbers the trumpets are of the angels. This doesn't seem to be the case in 1 Thes 4.

as the King of kings and Lord of lords.View attachment 199