The New Testament refers to Jesus as "God"

[Fred]

Nonsense. The verse doesn't say "he knows the hearts of all."

Classic.
What a massive blunder saying Revelation 2:23 does not refer to Jesus.

 

[Runningman]

Classic.
What a massive blunder saying Revelation 2:23 does not refer to Jesus.

It refers to Jesus but it doesn't say he "knows the hearts of all." Seriously, stop misrepresenting me. Your lies are not welcome.

 

[Fred]

It refers to Jesus but it doesn't say he "knows the hearts of all."

You said it refers to God and not to Jesus.

What a mess you made.

 

[Runningman]

You said it refers to God and not to Jesus.

What a mess you made.

More lies.

Acts 1:24 refers to God being prayed to. 1 Kings 8:39 refers to God.

Revelation 2:23 refers to Jesus.

Conclusion: Jesus does not know the hearts of all.

 

[Fred]

More lies.

Acts 1:24 refers to God being prayed to. 1 Kings 8:39 refers to God.

Revelation 2:23 refers to Jesus.

Conclusion: Jesus does not know the hearts of all.

What a disaster for you.

You affirmed that Revelation 2:23 does not refer to Jesus, but now you say it does.

You also affirmed the Lord in 1 Corinthians 4:5 does not refer to Jesus.
Are you sticking with this ludicrous assertion?

 

[Mod46]

@Runningman

If you got a brain then start using it.

Liar.

You lost, heretic.

Own it, liar.

Just so the readers are aware of Fred's lies,

You're a liar

Thanks for proving you have no conscience

Your soul is on the line.

I doubt you're saved.

I've refuted it repeatedly ever since I caught you telling lies in this thread. You're a snake.

Because when a person is reprimanded or their posts are deleted, they often come back claiming they didn't do anything wrong but are only being persecuted, I have quoted your infractions. Trolling and goading others with insults to instigate trouble is not allowed. All these posts will be deleted and if there is anymore posting like this, you will be subject to harsher actions.

 

[Runningman]

Because when a person is reprimanded or their posts are deleted, they often come back claiming they didn't do anything wrong but are only being persecuted, I have quoted your infractions. Trolling and goading others with insults to instigate trouble is not allowed. All these posts will be deleted and if there is anymore posting like this, you will be subject to harsher actions.

All of those things are true. Your deletions of those things do not change that fact, but thank you for letting me know.

 

[Runningman]

What a disaster for you.

What a mess you made.

You are seriously confused!

You are a heretic, Runningman.

I am not brothers with heretics.

You need a lot of fixin'.

Your lies are nothing against them.

@Mod46 since you are surely a fair mod, then you surely noticed all of the ad hominems against me being perpetuated by @Fred that have gone completely undeleted. I am sure you afford the same grace as those you (probably) agree with as those you surely disagree with. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

 

[Mod46]

@Mod46 since you are surely a fair mod, then you surely noticed all of the ad hominems against me being perpetuated by @Fred that have gone completely undeleted. I am sure you afford the same grace as those you (probably) agree with as those you surely disagree with. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

You have been goading him and a response in kind is not uncommon. Accept you discipline with grace and do better. @Fred never called you a liar which you have called others repeatedly, and because they disagree with you and for no other reason. That does not a liar make. And he never called you unsaved. Any further comment on this in the public domain will be met with discipline.

 

[Mod46]

All of those things are true. Your deletions of those things do not change that fact, but thank you for letting me know.

Disputes with moderation are to be placed in the private section "Contact Mod/Admin.

 

[Mod46]

Fixed that for you (the boldface above is mine).

Oh, and you're welcome.

It is against the rules to alter posts of another poster, even though you acknowledged that is what you were doing. Being goaded is difficult to ignore, but take a deep breath, say a quick prayer for help, and then post about the subject and not the poster.

 

[CherubRam]

Psalm 110:1 is quoted in Acts 2:34-35.
Peter already applied "Lord" unto Jesus moments earlier in Acts 2:21 in that He is YHWH (cf. Joel 2:32 - 3:5 in the LXX).

Your assertion does not even agree with the Trinity doctrine. "Lord" is a common title.

 

[Fred]

Your assertion does not even agree with the Trinity doctrine.

You don't know what you are talking about.

"Lord" is a common title.

But when the NT quotes an OT passage about the Lord (YHWH), then the Lord is God.
This happens several times in the NT concerning Jesus which leaves those who deny He is God totally without excuse.

 

[CherubRam]

Sure, Christ always does things in accordance with the Father.

But to fully know the hearts of all applies to God alone.

That the Lord Jesus knows the exact same thing in equality with the Father demonstrates Jesus is God.

All of the people in heaven are called (God / elohiym,) because they have life immortal.

Translated "Elohiym" means (God of the living ones and when referring to others it means (god-s of "The Living One.")

 

[Fred]

All of the people in heaven are called (God / elohiym,) because they have life immortal.

Translated "Elohiym" means (God of the living ones and when referring to others it means (god-s of "The Living One.")

Strawman.

Try again.

 

[Arial]

If Jesus did not have two natures, divine and human----if He were not God iow--- then the atonement was of no avail.

What was Jesus doing in His perfect and holy life? He was preparing the way of atoning for the sins of those He would die for.

What was it He needed to do in order for mercy to be shown to the sinner through the forgiveness of their sins?

Two things. Make a satisfaction to God for a debt the sinner owes. And make a way of reconciliation between the sinner and God, and God and the sinner, by meeting the just punishment of their sins, that justice might be met, and mercy granted.

How can a man do such a thing and survive? And how can the death of one human creature be sufficient in value to pay for all the sins of billions if not billions of billions, of persons and for all eternity? The Bible says in Romans 5: 6-11 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if, while we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

One man dying for another ( and in Paul's scenario a righteous man not a sinner) will never contain enough value beyond the one person who is died for. The substitute must have more value than the ones being substituted for, and it must have the same value as the One to whom the satisfaction is being made, and be just as much of the same kind in that respect, as it must be of the same kind as those being substituted for. A king even in the natural has more value than half his armies. (2 Sam 18:3)

The penal satisfaction is estimated by the dignity of the person who makes it, therefore avails for many as well as for one. As Francis Turretin says in The Atonement of Christ, "In this way Christ alone is more excellent than all men together. The dignity of an infinite person swallows up all the infinities of punishment due to us: they sink into it and are lost."

Is 53:6; 2 Cor 5:14; Heb 10:14; Rom 5:18-10. One cannot satisfy for many when they are of the same rank.

 

[Runningman]

If Jesus did not have two natures, divine and human----if He were not God iow--- then the atonement was of no avail.

What was Jesus doing in His perfect and holy life? He was preparing the way of atoning for the sins of those He would die for.

What was it He needed to do in order for mercy to be shown to the sinner through the forgiveness of their sins?

Two things. Make a satisfaction to God for a debt the sinner owes. And make a way of reconciliation between the sinner and God, and God and the sinner, by meeting the just punishment of their sins, that justice might be met, and mercy granted.

How can a man do such a thing and survive? And how can the death of one human creature be sufficient in value to pay for all the sins of billions if not billions of billions, of persons and for all eternity? The Bible says in Romans 5: 6-11 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if, while we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

One man dying for another ( and in Paul's scenario a righteous man not a sinner) will never contain enough value beyond the one person who is died for. The substitute must have more value than the ones being substituted for, and it must have the same value as the One to whom the satisfaction is being made, and be just as much of the same kind in that respect, as it must be of the same kind as those being substituted for. A king even in the natural has more value than half his armies. (2 Sam 18:3)

The penal satisfaction is estimated by the dignity of the person who makes it, therefore avails for many as well as for one. As Francis Turretin says in The Atonement of Christ, "In this way Christ alone is more excellent than all men together. The dignity of an infinite person swallows up all the infinities of punishment due to us: they sink into it and are lost."

Is 53:6; 2 Cor 5:14; Heb 10:14; Rom 5:18-10. One cannot satisfy for many when they are of the same rank.

There's a problem if God died on a cross. If Jesus is God and God didn't die then Jesus didn't die. Thus, no sacrifice, sin remains, no eternal life. That's the elephant in the room. A man died on the cross and his name is Jesus of Nazareth, God's chosen servant, whom He made both Lord and Messiah.

Matt 12
18“Here is My Servant,
whom I have chosen,
My beloved,
in whom My soul delights.
I will put My Spirit on Him,
and He will proclaim justice to the nations.

Acts 2
36Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!”

 

[Arial]

There's a problem if God died on a cross. If Jesus is God and God didn't die then Jesus didn't die. Thus, no sacrifice, sin remains, no eternal life. That's the elephant in the room. A man died on the cross and his name is Jesus of Nazareth, God's chosen servant, whom He made both Lord and Messiah.

The thing is, God did not die on the cross. The infinite and eternal cannot die and the two natures were not mixed one into the other nor could they be. It was Christ's flesh, that of the incarnate Son, who died. And the Father did not make Jesus Lord and Messiah, He came as Messiah and Lord, and the "made" does not express creating or exalting Him to a position, but rather,"intended" for Him to be Lord and Messiah for the explicit purpose of redeeming a people for Himself. Jesus returned to where He was before the incarnation, (John 17) He came to do the will of the Father which was also Christ's will before the foundation of the world. (1 Peter 1:20-21; Rev 13:8)

Matt 12
18“Here is My Servant,
whom I have chosen,
My beloved,
in whom My soul delights.
I will put My Spirit on Him,
and He will proclaim justice to the nations.

Acts 2
36Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!”

You can quote scriptures all day long but all you are doing is presenting them as affirming your unitairian belief. And I will always know that they don't and cannot. So instead of doing that, why don't you set about disproving that what I said in my post has no validity (also known as actually addressing its content)or at least commenting on it? That is how we avoid back and forth meaningless one liners and have a real discussion.

 

[Runningman]

The thing is, God did not die on the cross. The infinite and eternal cannot die

I agree.

and the two natures were not mixed one into the other nor could they be. It was Christ's flesh, that of the incarnate Son, who died.

Then a man died. It isn't human bodies of flesh, descended from Adam, that are perfect and sinless. It is the soul itself. All of Jesus died.

Isaiah 53
10Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush Him
and to cause Him to suffer;
and when His soul is made a guilt offering,
He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days,
and the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.

And the Father did not make Jesus Lord and Messiah, He came as Messiah and Lord, and the "made" does not express creating or exalting Him to a position,

God exalted the Son from a low position to a higher position:

Acts 10
37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.

but rather,"intended" for Him to be Lord and Messiah for the explicit purpose of redeeming a people for Himself. Jesus returned to where He was before the incarnation, (John 17) He came to do the will of the Father which was also Christ's will before the foundation of the world. (1 Peter 1:20-21; Rev 13:8)

The Father is the only true God. John 17:3

Jesus has a different will than God, but Jesus obeyed.

Luke 22
42“Father, if You are willing, take this cup from Me. Yet not My will, but Yours be done.”

You can quote scriptures all day long but all you are doing is presenting them as affirming your unitairian belief. And I will always know that they don't and cannot.

I agree there is no way we will change each other's mind. However, we can still discuss if you'd like.

So instead of doing that, why don't you set about disproving that what I said in my post (also known as actually addressing its content)or at least committing on it? That is how we avoid back and forth meaningless one liners and have a real discussion.

Okay sure.

 

[Arial]

I agree there is no way we will change each other's mind. However, we can still discuss if you'd like.

We can discuss it when you address what I said instead of just repeating your position. It is post #96.