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The "Arbitrary" Objection to Unconditional Election

His clay

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Introduction
One objection I've come across over the years is the "arbitrary" objection toward unconditional election. Simply stated: If God elects unconditionally, then He elects arbitrarily. The flip side is the assumption that the same is true of those not elected. We can see one particular poster express this concern.
Some have contended that the decision of the god of Calvinism to send certain people to hell isn't arbitrary. I give them the opportunity here to back up their statements.

Since those who go to hell, in Calvinism, don't have a choice in the matter, how is God's decision to cast them into hell not arbitrary.

Those who are elected to salvation are elected unconditionally;

And therefore there is also no condition (other than God's will) that sends certain people to hell.

How is that not an arbitrary decision? ....

One can see the initial plausibility of objection; it is largely based off of the idea of unconditionality. God's choice is unconditioned by anything in the person, so then it must be arbitrary. In spite of the initial or seeming plausibility, the argument has significant and serious flaws. The flaws of the argument actually reveal the worldview and assumptions of the objector. When the assumptions are examined, this spells far more doom toward the objector than it does toward unconditional election.

We will examine the objection by expounding upon a few simple points. First, one must have a proper understanding unconditional election. The possibility of straw men is remarkably strong for those who disagree with unconditional election; thus, it is utterly important to understand the basics before ever trying to send a criticism. Second, we will examine if the reversed assumption has merit. The reversed assumption is that if people are elected to salvation unconditionally, then they are elected to damnation unconditionally. Third, the charge of "arbitrary" needs a definition. What is meant by "arbitrary?" And does unconditional election actually lead to an arbitrary decision? These two question are the subjection of the third portion. Fourth, we will look into the assumptions of the objector. (1) One assumption is that people do not have a choice when unconditionality is present in election. (2) The other assumption is that if the person is removed from a criteria for election, then God doesn't have a reason for His choice.

These four steps will lead us forward toward a conclusion stated at the end. Let's take some time to examine these important issues.

Properly Understanding Unconditional Election
The first stop on the tour is a proper understanding of what unconditional election entails. Article nine of the Canons of Dort states the following (quote taken from top of forum link; thread titled "The Reformed Faith").
This same election took place, not on the basis of foreseen faith, of the obedience of faith, of holiness, or of any other good quality and disposition, as though it were based on a prerequisite cause or condition in the person to be chosen, but rather for the purpose of faith, of the obedience of faith, of holiness, and so on. Accordingly, election is the source of each of the benefits of salvation. Faith, holiness, and the other saving gifts, and at last eternal life itself, flow forth from election as its fruits and effects. As the apostle says, “He chose us” (not because we were, but) “so that we should be holy and blameless before him in love” (Eph. 1:4).
By unconditional is meant that God's choice was not based upon "foreseen faith, of the obedience of faith, of holiness, or of any other good quality and disposition, as though it were based on a prerequisite cause or condition in the person chosen." Rather than these things somehow being the basis of election; election is the basis of these things. Election is the initial choice that then leads to and brings about holiness, faith, and anything good in the one chosen. Hence, the word "source" was used to describe election's relation to the "benefits of salvation."

We will consider one more source. Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology is a fairly common systematic theology, and he gives the following definition. "Election is an act of God before creation in which he chooses some people to be saved, not on account of any foreseen merit in them, but only because of his sovereign good pleasure."[1] Grudem's definition shares some very important characteristics with the Canons of Dort, mentioned previously. Both definitions are specifically targeting the "foreseen faith" view of election, and they both deny such an idea as the basis of God's election. Grudem's definition summarizes with one word, "merit," what Dort elaborates upon.

One needs to note the speceficity of condition denied. Grudem eliminates "merit," and Dort eliminates a larger field. Both eliminate "foreseen faith" as a condition for God choice/election. In other words, the choice of God is unconiditional in the sense that His choice is not based upon human merit, foreseen faith, or anything good of the person.

Scripturally, the appeal is often made to Romans 9:11-13 where it says.
"though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”"

Romans 11:5-6 is another passage, and the focus here is upon God's grace. Human endeavor is excluded. Note: the passage does not say "meritorious works," but rather the more general expression "works" is used. Hence, the general category of human endeavor is excluded.
"So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace."

2 Timothy 2:9 again points out the negation of human endeavor.
"who saved us and called us to[a] a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began"

(1) A historical appeal was made in definining unconditional election, and (2) a more current systematic theology provided the second, and the (3) third portion briefly stated a few verses that lead us to the definition of unconditional election. With the definitions given above, one can better discern what is and what is not unconditional election.

Since the definition is more clear, we can immediately note the initial objection. More specifically, we can seen how unnuanced and truncated it is. No definition is given of the meaning of "unconditional." No elaboration is given to what this may refer to. The reader is then forced to supply the content, and to the ignorant it may very well seem that "unconditional" means the absence of all reason. But ignorance does not rule the day, and "unconditional" has a very specific focus. Namely, God's choice to save some is not based upon human merit, foreseen faith, or anything good of the person. Rather, God choice to save is the source of all good and God-honoring actions among those chosen.

This is not the conclusion of the opening post, for I will continue to write after posting this initial installment. The reason is simple: post size requirements and time. Hopefully, I can average a post a day.
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[1] Grudem, Wayne. Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine. Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 2000. p. 670.

(Opening Post 1 of 4)
 
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It should be clear that there is something that we do in order to procure salvation, from the following verses.

Hos 14:2, Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

Rom 10:9,
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10, For
with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11, For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12, For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13,
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Act 2:38, Then Peter said unto them,
Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39, For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


(1) One assumption is that people do not have a choice when unconditionality is present in election.

This is an assumption that is based in reality the reality of what Calvinism teaches.

For if the decision concerning my salvation or damnation is wholly God's and is none of man, then I can make a decision to receive Christ and yet not be saved if I am of the non-elect. And I can also never receive Christ and yet potentially be of the elect.

This is not the teaching of holy scripture.

And yet, it, being the teaching of Calvinism, is a teaching that man's choice in the matter of whether or not he is saved has no bearing or weight on the matter because theoretically, if I am not of the elect, I can choose Christ and yet in doing so He would cast me out; and also if I am of the elect, it doesn't matter that I have (or have not) received Christ as that has no bearing on the matter of whether or not I am saved.

The teaching of scripture, as I have quoted in scriptures above, is that there is something that we do in order to procure salvation.

Does this translate into personal merit?

I think that my decision to receive Christ was based, not in anything that can be defined as virtuous in me, but rather was based on a (sinful) sense of self-preservation; for I chose Christ when I was presented with the threat of eternal punishment and believed.

There was nothing meritorious in that;

But, when I placed my faith in Christ as the result, God honoured that faith because He says that He honours faith.

There again being nothing meritorious in that faith as I presented it to God out of fear of eternal damnation...which was again based in a sinful sense of self-preservation and yet God honoured a sinful reaction because He says in His word that He would honour such a reaction; because such a reaction is faith.
 
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It should be clear that there is something that we do in order to procure salvation, from the following verses.

Hos 14:2, Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

Rom 10:9,
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10, For
with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11, For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12, For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13,
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Act 2:38, Then Peter said unto them,
Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39, For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.




This is an assumption that is based in reality the reality of what Calvinism teaches.

For if the decision concerning my salvation or damnation is wholly God's and is none of man, then I can make a decision to receive Christ and yet not be saved if I am of the non-elect. And I can also never receive Christ and yet potentially be of the elect.

This is not the teaching of holy scripture.

And yet, it, being the teaching of Calvinism, is a teaching that man's choice in the matter of whether or not he is saved has no bearing or weight on the matter because theoretically, if I am not of the elect, I can choose Christ and yet in doing so He would cast me out; and also if I am of the elect, it doesn't matter that I have (or have not) received Christ as that has no bearing on the matter of whether or not I am saved.

The teaching of scripture, as I have quoted in scriptures above, is that there is something that we do in order to procure salvation.

Does this translate into personal merit?

I think that my decision to receive Christ was based, not in anything that can be defined as virtuous in me, but rather was based on a (sinful) sense of self-preservation; for I chose Christ when I was presented with the threat of eternal punishment and believed.

There was nothing meritorious in that;

But, when I placed my faith in Christ as the result, God honoured that faith because He says that He honours faith.

There again being nothing meritorious in that faith as I presented it to God out of fear of eternal damnation...which was again based in a sinful sense of self-preservation and yet God honoured a sinful reaction because He says in His word that He would honour such a reaction; because such a reaction is faith.
Thank you for your post. It will definitely clarify a future post when I have the time to write it. I also appreciate your affirmation of the assumption; your affirmation lets me know that I'm on target. While we obviously disagree, I hope that we can disagree in an agreeable manner.

The scripture is definitely appreciated. I'm glad that you at least seek to make an appeal to scripture. However, we obviously already disagree regarding your knowledge of Calvinism; I see lots of unsubstantiated opinion. In other words, I see your ideas of Calvinism, but I don't see you actually connecting your ideas to what Calvinism is. In other words, you are expressing your subjective view of Calvinism, but I don't see much that grounds your subjective ideas with the objective realities.

I'll post the opening post (2 of 4) next on the agenda, and thusly I'll hold off on further interaction till that time.
 
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For if the decision concerning my salvation or damnation is wholly God's and is none of man, then I can make a decision to receive Christ and yet not be saved if I am of the non-elect. And I can also never receive Christ and yet potentially be of the elect.

This is not the teaching of holy scripture.
And it is not the teaching of Calvinism.

What determines whether one is saved or not is what it is that they believe about Jesus, not what they choose. If you believe that He is the Son of God, which means He is God come in the flesh to redeem, and believe in your heart that He was raised from the dead, and it is in Him you place your trust for life and salvation, then you are saved. And if you are saved, you are of the elect. Whether you know this, or acknowledge this or not. And no one is saved outside of hearing the gospel and believing it. The elect are certain to hear it, and they are certain to believe it, by the grace and power of God.
 
And it is not the teaching of Calvinism.

What determines whether one is saved or not is what it is that they believe about Jesus, not what they choose. If you believe that He is the Son of God, which means He is God come in the flesh to redeem, and believe in your heart that He was raised from the dead, and it is in Him you place your trust for life and salvation, then you are saved. And if you are saved, you are of the elect. Whether you know this, or acknowledge this or not. And no one is saved outside of hearing the gospel and believing it. The elect are certain to hear it, and they are certain to believe it, by the grace and power of God.
What kind of God would choose out certain people to be certain to hear it, and certain to believe it; when that means that others are certain not to hear and certain not to believe?

I think that you are seeing things from God's perspective in eternity and not necessarily seeing it from the perspective of time.

From time's perspective, there is a point in time where we actually receive the truth of the gospel and are saved. I would say that entering into grace is dependent on our hearing the gospel and mixing it with faith (Romans 5:2, Hebrews 4:2). In Romans 9:25-26, there are people who were not His people but are now the people of God.

What? They were not His people from before the foundations of the world?

This indicates to me that there is a point in time when people cross over from death unto life, within their lifetime.

I will say that I believe that this point in time is characterized by the convert doing what it says to do in Hosea 14:2, Romans 10:9-13, and Acts 2:38-39.
 
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Thank you for your post. It will definitely clarify a future post when I have the time to write it. I also appreciate your affirmation of the assumption; your affirmation lets me know that I'm on target. While we obviously disagree, I hope that we can disagree in an agreeable manner.

The scripture is definitely appreciated. I'm glad that you at least seek to make an appeal to scripture. However, we obviously already disagree regarding your knowledge of Calvinism; I see lots of unsubstantiated opinion. In other words, I see your ideas of Calvinism, but I don't see you actually connecting your ideas to what Calvinism is. In other words, you are expressing your subjective view of Calvinism, but I don't see much that grounds your subjective ideas with the objective realities.

I'll post the opening post (2 of 4) next on the agenda, and thusly I'll hold off on further interaction till that time.
I have been going on my conversations with other Calvinists and I understand your contention that you, as a Calvinist, do not believe the things that I am effectively refuting in this conversation. I know that this means that to you, I am presenting a straw man argument.

However, to the Calvinist who believes what I am refuting, I am presenting no straw man; and if they believe what I am refuting, then their beliefs in Calvinism as they understand it are effectively refuted.

If your understanding of Calvinism is different, then what I have said isn't addressed to you.

I would also say that in reading Calvinistic authors, one might come to an understanding of a doctrine without understanding the implications of that doctrine; such as the idea that unconditional election logically is before the idea that people are arbitrarily sent to hell.

I think that in order to refute the idea that the god of Calvinism's decision to fry certain people is arbitrary, one would have to show the disconnect between "unconditional election" and "arbitrary condemnation". I don't think that that can really even be done.

But I would say that because a person may understand Calvinism without understanding its implications; that those who come to the table relating what those implications are are not necessarily misrepresenting Calvinistic doctrine.
 
What kind of God would choose out certain people to be certain to hear it, and certain to believe it; when that means that others are certain not to hear and certain not to believe?
The God who did. Let me ask you this. Do you choose who lives in your houses? And do you let everyone live in your house?
I think that you are seeing things from God's perspective in eternity and not necessarily seeing it from the perspective of time.
That makes no sense so no, that is not what I am doing.
From time's perspective, there is a point in time where we actually receive the truth of the gospel and are saved.
There is a point in time when we hear the gospel and believe it and are saved. Do you believe the gospel or do you just choose the gospel? If you choose it, why do you do so? That is a personal "you". I am asking you.
I would say that entering into grace is dependent on our hearing the gospel and mixing it with faith
It is dependent on hearing the gospel and believing it. It isn't mixing anything. Believing is faith.
In Romans 9:25-26, there are people who were not His people but are now the people of God.
That would be believing Gentiles.
What? They were not His people from before the foundations of the world?

This indicates to me that there is a point in time when people cross over from death unto life, within their lifetime.
Context. Context. Context.
I will say that I believe that this point in time is characterized by the convert doing what it says to do in Hosea 14:2, Romans 10:9-13, and Acts 2:38-39.
Believing.
 
If you choose it, why do you do so? That is a personal "you". I am asking you.
I have answered this question elsewhere and do not feel the need to repeat myself here.
 
That would be believing Gentiles.
Are believing Gentiles of the elect? And if so, is it not saying that there are those who are of the elect who were once, not the people of God?

Also, in the original context, in Hosea, it is speaking of the Jewish people.
 
Believing.
yes...and believing has to be a decision that is made by the convert.

Because when the convert is drawn to Christ, he is enabled to come to Christ (John 6:44); however this does not guarantee that the potential convert will come to Christ; because all are drawn (John 12:32) and if all who are drawn are given to Christ (are guaranteed to come to Christ), that is Universalism (heresy).
 
Are believing Gentiles of the elect? And if so, is it not saying that there are those who are of the elect who were once, not the people of God?

Also, in the original context, in Hosea, it is speaking of the Jewish people.

Read Romans 9:1-26 instead of just 25 and 26. Then come back and tell me who Paul is writing to and what those two passages mean.

The passage he quotes is Hosea 2:23 and Paul is interpreting it to mean the the Gentiles who were not His people under the old covenant with Israel, will become His people.
 
Read Romans 9:1-26 instead of just 25 and 26. Then come back and tell me who Paul is writing to and what those two passages mean.

The passage he quotes is Hosea 2:23 and Paul is interpreting it to mean the the Gentiles who were not His people under the old covenant with Israel, will become His people.
See Hosea 1:10-11. Romans 9:25-26 is quoted from that passage; and it speaks, in the original context, of Israel being God's people who were not His people previously.

However, I think that the argument is moot.

The point is that there are those who were not His people who are His people; which indicates that they crossed over from death to life at a certain juncture in time.
 
I assume that every Calvinist believes in predestination.

However, I wonder if every Calvinist is aware of how a man is predestinated unto salvation?

Consider.

Rom 8:30, Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Here, all those who are predestined are called; and if you are called it is because you have been predestined.

Now consider this.

Act 2:39, For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Here, a conditional promise is given to as many as the Lord our God shall call...

The promise, remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The condition, repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth (Acts 4:10-12, 1 Peter 3:20-21) for the remission of sins.


Act 2:38, Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

If you fulfill the condition of the promise, it indicates that you are among those whom the Lord our God has called; and have therefore been predestined to salvation.

Notice here that from the perspective of time, something must be done in order to procure predestination from the perspective of eternity.

It can be said that if you never had an opportunity to be baptized in Jesus' Name, that you simply were never predestined.

Nevertheless anyone can be baptized in Jesus' Name.

Just get a bottle of clean water and ask the Father to baptize you in Jesus' Name as you pour some of that water over your head.

Thus it will be fulfilled,

Eze 36:25, Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26, A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27, And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
 
See Hosea 1:10-11. Romans 9:25-26 is quoted from that passage; and it speaks, in the original context, of Israel being God's people who were not His people previously.

However, I think that the argument is moot.

The point is that there are those who were not His people who are His people; which indicates that they crossed over from death to life at a certain juncture in time.
That is not what it indicates. And Paul was making a direct quote from Hosea 2:23. Read it and see.

What it shows is that Israel alone were called the people of God, this done through covenant. That was not even a covenant of eternal life, except through faith in God alone, and did not apply to all, only those who had that faith in God alone. Paul in this letter is speaking to his brethren, the Jews. And he tells them that the believing Gentiles are now God's people also, and btw, and at the same time, that not all Jews are His people anymore, but only Jews who trust Christ alone for salvation. Yes, both believing Jews and believing Gentiles "cross over from death to life" as you put it. How does that happen? By believing.
 
yes...and believing has to be a decision that is made by the convert.

Because when the convert is drawn to Christ, he is enabled to come to Christ (John 6:44); however this does not guarantee that the potential convert will come to Christ; because all are drawn (John 12:32) and if all who are drawn are given to Christ (are guaranteed to come to Christ), that is Universalism (heresy).
You have made it clear that is what you believe and I have made it clear that it is not correct.

All are not drawn. Prove that by scripture.
 
What context? Give your exegesis of how the context affects the final interpretation of this passage.
The Roman church Paul was writing to had both Jewish and Gentile believers, and was most likely predominantly Gentile. His concern was that they be united. That they not look down on one another. In doing this he makes clear he begins the letter in 1:1-15 as an introduction. On 1:16,17 he stresses the righteousness of God for Jew and Gentile.

1:18-3:20 he addresses man's universal sinfulness/

3:21-5:21 He addresses righteousness for justification.

Ch, 6-8 Grace through righteousness

9-11 God demonstrates His righteousness in Jew and Gentile.

In chapter 9 He presents how God's righteousness was established in history with the Jews first. In verses 1-5 we have Israel's rejection of Christ.

Verses 6-13 Israel's rejection and God's purpose.

Verses 14-29 Israel's rejection and God's justice.

In the ESV the entire section from verse 1-29 is subtitled God's Sovereign Choice. So ultimately that is what that section is dealing with in relation to what is being said. Verses 25-26 is directly relating to everything that was said before. God sovereignly chooses who He wills, from Jew and Gentile alike.
 
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