Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, and John 6:37

[Carbon]

Regeneration is an aspect of Salvation, its the impartation of Spiritual life, being saved from spiritual alienation and death in trespasses and sins

Right. Regeneration is being born again, a new creature is Christ, the old has been crucified, and passed away; the new has become. This new creature possesses the gift of faith, it comes with the new person in Christ and is active because it is who we are. We actually find ourselves believing.

 

[Carbon]

When the Holy Spirit draws him, it is like an alarm clock going off and he has the option of either hitting the snooze button and going back into the sleep of spiritual death

Is this your conclusion? What is it based on? Scripture? Your logic?

or else waking entirely up and going about his day.

 

[Carbon]

Hmmmm. Nope. I couldn't even begin to consider that as truth without something from Scripture to demonstrate it.

What! Scripture doesn't teach about snooze buttons!?

 

[brightfame52]

@Carbon

This new creature possesses the gift of faith, it comes with the new person in Christ and is active because it is who we are. We actually find ourselves believing.

Right its the new creation, the new man that believes in Christ Eph 4:24


And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

 

[brightfame52]

@Carbon

Man becomes a God seeker only after he is regenerated.

Exactly which are the elect Ps 24:6

This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah.

Isa 45:19

I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the Lord speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

 

[Arial]

What! Scripture doesn't teach about snooze buttons!?

Maybe it is in code that only the doubly enlightened can see.

 

[Carbon]

Maybe it is in code that only the doubly enlightened can see.

Yea, I guess ya have to be of those choice meats.

 

[TMSO]

Question:
Did you notice that this is written to the church(s)? Why do you twist it to teach synergism, free will theology?

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

Make this consideration. The door being knocked on is not the heart of people, but the door of the church. Jesus has been completely shut out of that church. The letter is to the church. If anyone in that church hears and opens the door, then here is what Jesus will do for them.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I would give as my primary argument, that if Calvinism (or hyper-Calvinism) has the ability to stand as a doctrine, then it has the ability to stand apart from certain posts that are in refutation of it being deleted by moderators.

"Calvinism" isn't a "Doctrine", it's a "Theological Systematic" consisting of MANY "Doctrines", and unique definitions of terminology. Being "Born again", for example in Calvinism, is DIFFERENT than being "Saved" ('m not sure why and don't really care).

PERSONALLY, as a Free-range NON-Systematic eclectic, I accept aspects of the Calvinist systematic as being accurate, while I have my doubts about other aspects.

Which is, that if Limited Atonement and Unconditional Election be true, then there are those who are not included in the Limited Atonement, who are not included in it as the result of God's free will choice (Ephesians 1:11) and that they do not have a choice in the matter of whether they will be saved but it is based entirely on His choice (Unconditional Election).

Which is a demonstrable fact. In the most simplistic form, if a person DOES NOT BECOME BORN AGAIN BY FAITH (Eph 2:8,9) then the Atonement is ineffective for them - i.e. "Limited" in its effect. = "Limited Atonement".

The reality is that if anyone comes to Christ, it is the proof that he is of the elect!

Absolutely!!! This since NOBODY comes to Christ except they be DRAWN to him by Father God (John 6:44).

 

[Josheb]

Absolutely!!! This since NOBODY comes to Christ except they be DRAWN to him by Father God (John 6:44).

....and since the coming of Christ is predicated upon God drawing the person, upon what did God condition His drawing?

 

[makesends]

Which is, that if Limited Atonement and Unconditional Election be true, then there are those who are not included in the Limited Atonement, who are not included in it as the result of God's free will choice (Ephesians 1:11) and that they do not have a choice in the matter of whether they will be saved but it is based entirely on His choice (Unconditional Election).

Election of those who do, or will, believe, is by God's choosing and act of grace. Whether the human also chooses is not in question, but that his choice is effectual concerning the faith that has been formed within him is in question, being denied.

If the antithesis of Election of believers is true, (and I'm not saying it is), and God has elected certain individuals to damnation, then whether the human also chooses, is also not in question. According to John 3:18, (among other passages), they are already condemned, and they choose consistent with that condemnation, always, rejecting God.

 

[brightfame52]

Election of those who do, or will, believe, is by God's choosing and act of grace. Whether the human also chooses is not in question, but that his choice is effectual concerning the faith that has been formed within him is in question, being denied.

If the antithesis of Election of believers is true, (and I'm not saying it is), and God has elected certain individuals to damnation, then whether the human also chooses, is also not in question. According to John 3:18, (among other passages), they are already condemned, and they choose consistent with that condemnation, always, rejecting God.

Believing is the result of election not the cause or condition. That makes Election based upon works and not grace. Faith/believing is by Grace.

 

[makesends]

Believing is the result of election not the cause or condition. That makes Election based upon works and not grace. Faith/believing is by Grace.

Yes. Did I write what I said somehow to be taken differently?

 

[brightfame52]

Yes. Did I write what I said somehow to be taken differently?

Dont you know what you wrote ?Did you write this ?

Believing is the result of election not the cause or condition. That makes Election based upon works and not grace. Faith/believing is by Grace.

 

[makesends]

Dont you know what you wrote ?Did you write this ?

HUH???

 

[brightfame52]

HUH???

Huh ?

 

[TMSO]

Believing is the result of election not the cause or condition. That makes Election based upon works and not grace. Faith/believing is by Grace.

Believing is the result of God's radical transformation of the heart, soul, and mind of a man. It is a reaction, not a mindful merit filled work. It is brought about by God's change of man's mind, such as in the case of Saul to Paul. God crushed Saul, and taught Paul exactly who he was and where he stood before God. On his kness and face, metaphorically speaking, with nowhere to go, there was only God and Paul today. Metaphorically face to face. If there is anyone who doesn't think God is overwhelming, then there is no hope for them. God is all Paul could think about. I would say see, but Paul was kind of blind at the moment, which sends his thoughts to the inner man.

 

[brightfame52]

Believing is the result of God's radical transformation of the heart, soul, and mind of a man. It is a reaction, not a mindful merit filled work. It is brought about by God's change of man's mind, such as in the case of Saul to Paul. God crushed Saul, and taught Paul exactly who he was and where he stood before God. On his kness and face, metaphorically speaking, with nowhere to go, there was only God and Paul today. Metaphorically face to face. If there is anyone who doesn't think God is overwhelming, then there is no hope for them. God is all Paul could think about. I would say see, but Paul was kind of blind at the moment, which sends his thoughts to the inner man.

Believing is the result of election not the cause or condition. That makes Election based upon works and not grace. Faith/believing is by Grace. Paul was an elect before a believer

 

[TMSO]

Believing is the result of election not the cause or condition. That makes Election based upon works and not grace. Faith/believing is by Grace. Paul was an elect before a believer

That is what God told Ananias. I have chosen Paul, and I will show him how he will suffer... believing is the result of God stirring the heart of man via the Holy Spirit, or to be eloquent as Paul, it is God teaching us and drawing us to Jesus. And yes, it is because of God's choice before the foundation of the world, as recorded in Ephesians 1.

 

[makesends]

Huh ?

Lol. "What we have here is a failure to communicate."