The god of Calvinism's arbitrary decision.

[Eleanor]

That is precisely what he is saying, and what the NT teaches throughout.

What do we enter into?. . .we enter into grace (salvation).

How do we enter into grace?. . .by (through) faith.

grace (salvation) <-- faith

Grace saves by faith.

@ReverendRV

Grace is God's unmerited favor.

Salvation is not all it is, no?

 

[Mr GLee]

That is precisely what he is saying, and what the NT teaches throughout.

What do we enter into?. . .we enter into grace (salvation).

How do we enter into grace?. . .by (through) faith.

grace (salvation) <-- faith

Grace saves by faith.

Its all together a labor of love through a work of Christ's faith that provides grace. Let there be grace and it the power of the faith of God was God alone good

We know the results of those who deny the work of Christ's faith it show they have not believed God

Romans 3: 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

 

[Mr GLee]

@ReverendRV

Grace is God's unmerited favor.

Salvation is not all it is, no?

We are saved by the fullness of His grace. The complete price of salvation. not a unknown remnant and mankind must continue to suffer even after taking one's last breath .

That's a Roman Catholic idea (limbo purgatory) The wonderings suffering not coming to a end doctrine.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is not only a blasphemous thread, but you have also indulged in a false equivalence. Election to salvation is unconditional, but the people who are sent to hell are condemned by their own words and works.

They would have to have a choice in the matter for their condemnation to be just.

 

[justbyfaith]

What I suggest is to debate. When you make an irrefutable point, press it. It's also as important that when someone else makes an irrefutable point, accept it. If a point is not accepted by either side, stop and hash the point out until both sides accept it...

As Civic said, people should have a Dialectic Debate, instead of having a fight or an argument. Think about it; we have Dialectic Debates with ourselves, in order to develop our personal paradigm. We weigh points against other points in our heads all the time. Why not Reason together, instead of alone?

So, if my point gets deleted, I should bring it up again?

 

[justbyfaith]

That is precisely what he is saying, and what the NT teaches throughout.

What do we enter into?. . .we enter into grace (salvation).

How do we enter into grace?. . .by (through) faith.

grace (salvation) <-- faith

Grace saves by faith.

Right...we are saved by grace through faith.

Faith is the avenue by which we enter into grace.

Or, Jesus is the door, and faith is the key to the door. Grace / salvation is the mansion.

We all at one time didn't dwell in the mansion...we gained access to the mansion when Jesus gave us the key (you should like that idea because it is Calvinistic).

We entered into the mansion when we put the key in the lock and opened the door.

 

[Mr GLee]

Faith is the avenue by which we enter into grace.

Not by our faith called no faith .By His faith the one with power to raise the dead (no faith)

 

[justbyfaith]

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/a-proposition-calvinistic-or-no.1196/

 

[ReverendRV]

So, if my point gets deleted, I should bring it up again?

Speak your Mind, while keeping the Rules; and everything will be fine. Have fun...

Why are you suggesting that Faith precedes Grace?

 

[David1701]

They would have to have a choice in the matter for their condemnation to be just.

They did have a choice. They chose to sin, habitually, according to their nature.

 

[Eleanor]

Its all together a labor of love through a work of Christ's faith that provides grace. Let there be grace and it the power of the faith of God was God alone good

We know the results of those who deny the work of Christ's faith it show they have not believed God

Romans 3: 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Actually, Ro 3:3 is not saying what you are presenting it as saying.

Faith (pistis) = trust, trustworthiness, faithfulness, fidelity, content of faith, ground of faith.

Its use in Ro 3:3 is "faithfulness."

"Shall their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect" to his promises to punish Israel for its unbelief (v. 5, our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly)?

Not at all! Let God be true (to his promise to punish) and every man a liar. As it is written:

'So that you be proved right when you speak and prevail (overcome) when you judge.' (Ps 51:4)"

Ro 3:3 is saying that God is glorified in judging the sin of unbelief.

 

[Eleanor]

We are saved by the fullness of His grace. The complete price of salvation. not a unknown remnant and mankind must continue to suffer even after taking one's last breath .

That's a Roman Catholic idea (limbo purgatory) The wonderings suffering not coming to a end doctrine.

NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16) is that not all are saved.

 

[Eleanor]

Right...we are saved by grace through faith.

Faith is the avenue by which we enter into grace.

Or, Jesus is the door, and faith is the key to the door. Grace / salvation is the mansion.

We all at one time didn't dwell in the mansion...we gained access to the mansion when Jesus gave us the key (you should like that idea because it is Calvinistic).

We entered into the mansion when we put the key in the lock and opened the door.

Previously addressed.

 

[justbyfaith]

Previously addressed.

Not adequately. Bring up again your answer; subject it to public scrutiny; and see if it stands as an answer to what I am saying.

 

[justbyfaith]

They did have a choice. They chose to sin, habitually, according to their nature.

But they did that because God chose them not (they were of the non-elect).

So, God is ultimately responsible for their condemnation; and it is unjust; being arbitrary.

Also, if the non-elect are condemned because they chose to sin, then the elect are saved because they repented.

Is that not election based in merits?

Yet it is the truth!

 

[justbyfaith]

Speak your Mind, while keeping the Rules; and everything will be fine. Have fun...

Why are you suggesting that Faith precedes Grace?

Because Romans 5:2 teaches it.

We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand.

 

[ReverendRV]

But they did that because God chose them not (they were of the non-elect).

So, God is ultimately responsible for their condemnation; and it is unjust; being arbitrary.

Also, if the non-elect are condemned because they chose to sin, then the elect are saved because they repented.

Is that not election based in merits?

Yet it is the truth!

People choose to Sin because they are Sinners, not because they are Elect or Reprobate; right?

Categories; and Category Mistakes...

 

[makesends]

No, it is not pride to trust in the fact that God's promises are true;

and that therefore, if thou shalt confess with my mouth the Lord Jesus, believing in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved (Romans 10:9).

That therefore, Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved (Romans 10:13).

It is an accusation coming from the accuser of the brethren.

Rev 12:9, And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10, And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11, And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Do you not understand that we can all fool ourselves as to what we are doing?

 

[ReverendRV]

Because Romans 5:2 teaches it.

We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand.

Sure, that's true; but it is access into a Subsequent movement of Grace, right?

For instance; when Sin abounds, Grace abounds the more. That Subsequent Grace is also accessed, but THROUGH different Means; right? Isn't it true that Biblically, the Grace in which we Stand; can be accessed again and again?

 

[makesends]

Because Romans 5:2 teaches it.

We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand.

To revisit what you and I already discussed, 'grace' is a word similar to 'goodness' or 'love', in the way it can be spoken of in statements, in that the grace of God is pervasive in all his dealings with the elect. Grace comes from God. Not from our deeds nor decisions. It is by grace that we are created for his purposes. It is by grace that we are regenerated. It is by grace that we are given faith by which to believe. It is by grace that we draw every breath.

You are insisting on self-determination here, at the risk of defaming God. WE are not the cause of our faith.