The god of Calvinism's arbitrary decision.

[justbyfaith]

Sure, that's true; but it's access into a Subsequent movement of Grace, right?

For instance; when Sin abounds, Grace abounds the more. This Subsequent Grace is also accessed, but THROUGH different Means; right? Isn't it true that Biblically, the Grace in which we Stand; can be accessed again and again?

If one leaves the mansion, he can access the mansion again by putting the key in the door and opening it.

If you are a permanent fixture in the mansion, it is true that you once gained access by putting the key in the door.

 

[justbyfaith]

To revisit what you and I already discussed, 'grace' is a word similar to 'goodness' or 'love', in the way it can be spoken of in statements, in that the grace of God is pervasive in all his dealings with the elect. Grace comes from God. Not from our deeds nor decisions. It is by grace that we are created for his purposes. It is by grace that we are regenerated. It is by grace that we are given faith by which to believe. It is by grace that we draw every breath.

You are insisting on self-determination here, at the risk of defaming God. WE are not the cause of our faith.

God does give faith (the key to the door). We enter in through the door when we put the key in the lock and open the door.

I will not disagree with you and say that faith does not come by grace; however, I want you to acknowledge the reality of Romans 5:2; that we have access by faith into grace.

We know that there are different aspects of grace in holy scripture. Maybe that is the answer?

Perhaps someone who is knowledgeable on that subject can post something here to edify us.

 

[ReverendRV]

If one leaves the mansion, he can access the mansion again by putting the key in the door and opening it.

This is true. You are saying the Mansion is Grace, and you can gain access to the Mansion again through Faith. This is a Subsequent access to the Mansion of Grace..

 

[ReverendRV]

For instance; when Sin abounds, Grace abounds the more. That Subsequent Grace is also accessed, but THROUGH different Means; right? Isn't it true that Biblically, the Grace in which we Stand; can be accessed again and again?

@justbyfaith

 

[justbyfaith]

@justbyfaith

by the same means.

 

[ReverendRV]

by the same means.

No, the Means by which Grace abounds is Sin; this is a different Means than Faith. All that is not of Faith, is Sin; right? So this is a precedent showing us the 'Grace in which we Stand' can be accessed. Our Sin accesses Grace, right? Since there is precedence that an already existing Grace can be accessed by a Christian’s Sin, you should now have no problem accepting that a pre existent Grace is established before our Faith exists...

Especially a Grace that is the Unmerited Favor of God. What do you have against Unmerited Favor?

 

[Eleanor]

Not adequately. Bring up again your answer; subject it to public scrutiny; and see if it stands as an answer to what I am saying.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

 

[makesends]

God does give faith (the key to the door). We enter in through the door when we put the key in the lock and open the door.

I will not disagree with you and say that faith does not come by grace; however, I want you to acknowledge the reality of Romans 5:2; that we have access by faith into grace.

We know that there are different aspects of grace in holy scripture. Maybe that is the answer?

Perhaps someone who is knowledgeable on that subject can post something here to edify us.

Faith is not a key to unlock the door to Grace, nor even to Salvation. Faith is OF God, by the Spirit of God. "Faith is the believer's very life", is a better way to put it. We do not produce it. We are carried along by it.

The Gospel is not a mechanical contrivance. The Gospel is Christ.

 

[Mr GLee]

NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16) is that not all are saved.

It takes a little work. Yoked with Christ that burden is made lighter

The living, loving commandment 2nd Timothy 2:15 is to study to show one approved unto God not seen . Insisting dying mankind much teach us denies the promise of the Holy Spirit that he would teach, guide and bring to our memory the previous things . (John 14)

I think you meant the teaching of our unseen Holy Father who works in us to both reveal His will and empower us to do it to His good pleasure (Philippians 2)

Authoritative. . . word all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

The law of the fathers as law of the church simply reveals false apostle, false prophets, false zeal bringing oral traditions (i heard it through the fathers grapevine of dying mankind

The word father is used in two ways .Satan would have men believe its all one in the same

The supposed apostolic teaching authority. Murder and torture those who do not agree with the High Priest like the Pope . the Pagan foundation. Its out of sight out of mankind as in who believes in a Holy Father not seen when they have one right in front .


Acts 22: 3-5 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day. And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.As also the high priest (Pope) doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

Then by the authority of the living abiding word Paul joined a new sect (Nazarene) .Having become #1 on most wanted dead or alive . ( the fake apostolic authority) The Holy Spirit gives words to His prophet Paul rightly dividing the fathers .

They worshipped a legion of fathers replacing our one Holy Father . Paul turned it rightside up worshiping The God of the fathers. Again clearly not fathers a legion as if it was the one manner .Our Holy Father in heaven hallowed thy name not names (Legion) .

Again not fathers (legion) as disembodied spirits of the dead called patron saints

Acts 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of (not as) my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:. . . .sola scriptura)

If they could not prove that sola scriptura was a heresy .( I heard it through the fathers grape vine) How would you prove it is?

 

[Eleanor]

It takes a little work. Yoked with Christ that burden is made lighter

The living, loving commandment 2nd Timothy 2:15 is to study to show one approved unto Godnot seen .
Insisting dying mankind much teach us denies the promise of the Holy Spirit that he would teach, guide and bring to our memory the previous things . (John 14) I think you meant the teaching of our unseen Holy Father who works in us to both reveal His will and empower us to do it to His good pleasure (Philippians 2)

The NT writings are addressed to the church of believers, not to unsaved unbelievers.

Authoritative. . . word all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)
The law of the fathers as law of the church

The apostles are not "fathers." It is NT apostolic teaching that is authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16).

simply reveals false apostle, false prophets, false zeal bringing oral traditions (i heard it through the fathers grapevine of dying mankind
The word father is used in two ways .Satan would have men believe its all one in the same
The supposed apostolic teaching authority. Murder and torture those who do not agree with the High Priest like the Pope . the Pagan foundation. Its out of sight out of mankind as in who believes in a Holy Father not seen when they have one right in front .

Acts 22: 3-5 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day. And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.As also the high priest (Pope) doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.
Then by the authority of the living abiding word Paul joined a new sect (Nazarene) .Having become #1 on most wanted dead or alive . ( the fake apostolic authority)

Paul was not wanted by the Christian apostles. He was wanted by the Jews, who did not claim to be apostles.

The Holy Spirit gives words to His prophet Paul rightly dividing the fathers .
They worshipped a legion of fathers replacing our one Holy Father . Paul turned it rightside up worshiping The God of the fathers. Again clearly not fathers a legion as if it was the one manner .Our Holy Father in heaven hallowed thy name not names (Legion) .
Again not fathers (legion) as disembodied spirits of the dead called patron saints
Acts 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of (not as) my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:. . . .sola scriptura)

And giving much new revelation from Christ which is the light in which they all must be understood.

If they could not prove that sola scriptura was a heresy .( I heard it through the fathers grape vine) How would you prove it is?

The same way you would.

 

[David1701]

But they did that because God chose them not (they were of the non-elect).

So, God is ultimately responsible for their condemnation; and it is unjust; being arbitrary.

Sinners sin because they want to. They want to because that is their fallen nature. They are responsible for their own condemnation.

God is under no obligation to give saving grace to any of us hard-hearted rebels. The fact that he has chosen to give his saving grace to some of us, is a testimony to his grace and mercy, not to anything good in us (like repentance, which the Bible tells us is a gift from God - N.B. repentance itself, not some fictional ability to repent).

Also, if the non-elect are condemned because they chose to sin, then the elect are saved because they repented.

Is that not election based in merits?

Yet it is the truth!

This is another false equivalence (the part I've made bold) and a non-sequitur. If you cannot understand that, then there's little point in discussing anything with you.

 

[Mr GLee]

The NT writings are addressed to the church of believers, not to unsaved unbelievers.

The new testament writers were moved by God to record the will of God.

The apostles are not "fathers." It is NT apostolic teaching that is authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16).

The apostles are sent by God as messengers for God to the churches many sects . he who has a ear let them hear Gods understanding to the churches (plural) Not from dying mankind the church.

Paul was not wanted by the Christian apostles. He was wanted by the Jews, who did not claim to be apostles.

Paul was wanted by false apostles not sent of God but sent of men.

And giving much new revelation from Christ which is the light in which they all must be understood.

Just give us one revelation that is not part of the book of prophecy the Bible sealed with 7 seals til the last day under the Sun .

The same way you would.

As it is written (sola scriptura) or adding the traditions of dying mankind called fathers? No man can serve two teaching master coming from one Lord .

God is not a man.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is another false equivalence (the part I've made bold) and a non-sequitur. If you cannot understand that, then there's little point in discussing anything with you.

You would really have to go to great lengths if you were going to explain this problem in your theology.

 

[Eleanor]

The new testament writers were moved by God to record the will of God.
The apostles are sent by God as messengers for God to the churches many sects . he who has a ear let them hear Gods understanding to the churches (plural) Not from dying mankind the church.
Paul was wanted by false apostles not sent of God but sent of men.

What apostles wanted Paul harmed?

Just give us one revelation that is not part of the book of prophecy the Bible sealed with 7 seals til the last day under the Sun .

The incarnation?

The change that will take place at the resurrection (1 Co 15:51)?

As it is written (sola scriptura) or adding the traditions of dying mankind called fathers? No man can serve two teaching master coming from one Lord .

God is not a man.

NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16) says that he is a man, in Jn 1;1, 14.

 

[Mr GLee]

What apostles wanted Paul harmed?

The false apostles from his previous sect of the Pharisees .

The incarnation?

The change that will take place at the resurrection (1 Co 15:51)?

That prophecy is given you gave the reference . Revelation ending with a warning is the last chapter of the living word.

NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16) says that he is a man, in Jn 1;1, 14.

Apostle "sent one" Nothing more and nothing less.

Not highly venerable ones or puffed up ones that lord it over the faith of the non-venerable (blasphemy). It's a violation to change the meaning of one word. as anyone can see with the word apostle some have totally destroyed the author intent and made it all about dying flesh and blood ..No faith coming from (sola scriptura as it is written that could please the one author of the living abiding word.

Deuteronomy 4:2 King James Version Ye shall not add unto the word (singular) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it (singular), that ye may keep the commandments(plural) of the Lord your God which I command you.

Abel was the first prophet sent as a apostle. His brother murdered Abel the first martyr .

There is no teaching of the apostles. God is our teacher they as messengers brought the living word of God sent by God just as today .

How beautiful are the feet shod with the gospel (God's living word )Today the apostles sent out two by two labor with the apostles that died .Same word same kind of feet same living abiding words

The apostles add nothing neither are they considered as nothing . every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

1corinthian 3:6-9 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God (alone) gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

Its clear neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; what makes it difficult for some they must rely on God's living word as as it is written (sola scriptura) the final authority in matters of the unseen thing of God .His faith .

It's why they natural unconverted mankind rather chose to follow a man on earth called Holy Father among other venerable titles even though they are commanded not to .They have no other recourse other than trusting God not seen .

Whose written word will you trust today that of the legion or succession of fathers or the one manner given (sola scriptura) of our Holy unseen Father in heaven. We hallow his venerable name not the legion of what are called patron saints . We are not to seek the dead disembodied in replacement of out one Holy Father in heaven

One good teacher master and lord who brings to our mind the things he previously teaches us (John 14) not two teaching master's calling dying mankind devine.

From my experience no surprise that they list that which makes Sacred scripture without effect first (so that mankind might venerate the flesh of dying mankind called Sacred Tradition.

Catholic book of law. . II. The Relationship Between and Sacred Scripture ONE common source. . .

80 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For U of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal."40 Each of them makes present and fruitful in the Church the mystery of Christ, who promised to remain with his own "always, to the close of the age".41

Simply a person cannot serve to teaching master coming from one God .

Its either I heard it through the dying fathers grapevine (not divine) or God (devine) who gives a person his understanding as it is writen (sola scriptura) the true divine word

 

[Eleanor]

The false apostles from his previous sect of the Pharisees .

Jesus had no apostles from the Pharisees other than Paul.

hat prophecy is given you gave the reference . Revelation ending with a warning is the last chapter of the living word.

Revelation was written after the OT. I was referring to prophecy before the NT.

Apostle "sent one" Nothing more and nothing less.

As usual, Jesus disagrees with you in Lk 10:16.
Explains a lot.