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Spiritually Brain Dead

Accepting it as truth is believing it. Seeing what grace presents and rejecting it is not believing. Try reading what I said again. Grace presents the truth, we see it and either accept it or reject it. I never said anything about accepting as truth and then rejecting it.
I was not referring to you specifically.

Anyone who hears the Gospel and has to choose whether or not to believe it has clearly not had a revelation.
Those who receive revelation does not have a choice as to weather or not they want to believe it. It would be oxymoronic.
 
Of course you can.
IS THAT NOT GOD"S WILL! HAS HE LOST CONTROLL? ARE YOU NOW DICTATING TO GOD!
That's not the point. Go back and find out why I said what I did.
And, not grab what I said out of context, please.
 
So you agree God's will cannot be thwarted?

Are you sure of that statement?


For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge
of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:3-4​
God's will is being thwarted. He wants it that way. For man is to be free to believe, or not.
Other wise? They really never believed if He forced them to believe in Him. That would
make God into admitting that He is a failure. That He must force people to believe. That
He must rig the election, so to speak to win.
 
Are you sure of that statement?


For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge
of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:3-4​
God's will is being thwarted. He wants it that way. For man is to be free to believe, or not.
Other wise? They really never believed if He forced them to believe in Him. That would
make God into admitting that He is a failure. That He must force people to believe. That
He must rig the election, so to speak to win.
NOW, your arguing the same way I do; using a person's beliefs against them...
 
NOW, your arguing the same way I do; using a person's beliefs against them...

Its actually showing them a contradiction in HOW they are believing.
That how they are believing is not right.

Its doing them a favor. For it will cause growth if heeded.
 
Its actually showing them a contradiction in HOW they are believing.
That how they are believing is not right.

Its doing them a favor. For it will cause growth if heeded.
Oh, I'm a Calvinist; I just like Sound Reasoning. I believe he will be able to soundly respond to your Sound Reasoning...
 
That is correct. That is why we are saved by grace. First grace presents the truth and we choose to believe or not. God has determined to save believers ergo, believers are saved by grace.
WE CHOOSE............. exactly. We choose= free will.
 
The following is a post from another forum, by a person who had posted here as a guest in another area...

I obtained his permission before posting it.

Reply #70 at https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/predestined-to-be-saved-or-lost.45282/page-4#post-1643571
from: Behold
What you decide to do in the next 30 seconds is not "God's doing", its your doing.

What Adam decided to do was Adam's decision, not God's will.

See, once the deception that is.. "= God caused you to do it", is believed, then personal accountability is removed, and that will never happen.
You are in charge of your behavior, not God.

The thing that Calvin's disciples can never understand, is that if God caused you to do it, then God can't hold you accountable.
Yet He does..., and thus endeth the Hyper-Calvinism nonsense.
 
I usually end up discussing with Calvinists, rare I end up challenging non-Calvinist.
I assumed everyone was a Calvinist; but you are correct, it would be nice if association was included and viewable in the avatar.

A fence sitting avatar should clarify any confusions????
 
WE CHOOSE............. exactly. We choose= free will.

Grace makes us enabled to choose with free will.
Without grace we can not choose correctly.
Grace is the Holy Spirit sovereignly taking control where we are helpless and powerless.

Grace during salvation suppresses our flesh.

Suppresses our flesh with its sin nature that would prevent our soul from believing.
By grace our soul was made free from the effect of the flesh to choose as we would have wanted to choose if we had no sin nature.


For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh.
They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want." Galatians 5:17​
The Aramaic translation renders Gal 5:17 as this......​
For the flesh craves anything that opposes The Spirit and The Spirit craves whatever opposes
the flesh, and they both are contrary one to another, lest you would be doing whatever you want.


Now if Galatians 5:17 is the state of the believer? One who is already born again and regenerate?
How much more so was the flesh opposing the truth while we were unregenerate?
That is why? Without grace taking control over our sin nature no soul could believe.

Without grace = total depravity.

During times which were designated by God grace took our flesh and nailed it down.
In doing so? Grace enabled our soul to be made free to choose for, or against God.

That is why no one who does not believe is with excuse. For all souls have been drawn by God with grace.

Believe it or not?

Those who reject God had their souls made free while God was drawing them. They freely chose to reject God's drawing!


grace and peace ...............
 
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I was not referring to you specifically.

Anyone who hears the Gospel and has to choose whether or not to believe it has clearly not had a revelation.
Those who receive revelation does not have a choice as to weather or not they want to believe it. It would be oxymoronic.
So you think every atheist doesn't understand the message that Christ died on the Cross to save the world? How hard do you think that message is to understand? It's their refusal to believe that leaves them where they are not their inability to understand what is being said. Grace ensures the message is made perspicuous so they can know what they are rejecting. Besides, there's a whole lot to believe before God can present the Gospel.
 
So why not accept my admission of making a mistake by using the wrong word?

So you agree God's will cannot be thwarted?
If by that question you mean can men stop God from doing what He wants? Then no, His will cannot be thwarted. However, He wants all men to be saved (1Tim.2:3&4) but He also promised to only give eternal life to believers (Jn.3:16). So when men reject Him, they are not thwarting His will. Indeed, what we see is God submitting His desires to His righteousness and justice. Afterall, the whole issue of salvation is more about God's integrity being manifested than it is about saving people.

Revelation 4:8
The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying: “Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come!”
 
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Please; invite your friend here...
I would love for him to come here. I will extend the invite but in truth.... when I first joined on July 30 Behold was a "guest" poster, so I assume
he opted not to specifically join?

He has some very interesting soteriological (sp?) views that now having read, and re-read, and re-read again are starting to truly make sense...

I'll see what I can do.
 
Grace makes us enabled to choose with free will.
Without grace we can not choose correctly.
Grace is the Holy Spirit sovereignly taking control where we are helpless and powerless.

Grace during salvation suppresses our flesh.

Suppresses our flesh with its sin nature that would prevent our soul from believing.
By grace our soul was made free from the effect of the flesh to choose as we would have wanted to choose if we had no sin nature.


For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh.
They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want." Galatians 5:17​
The Aramaic translation renders Gal 5:17 as this......​
For the flesh craves anything that opposes The Spirit and The Spirit craves whatever opposes
the flesh, and they both are contrary one to another, lest you would be doing whatever you want.


Now if Galatians 5:17 is the state of the believer? One who is already born again and regenerate?
How much more so was the flesh opposing the truth while we were unregenerate?
That is why? Without grace taking control over our sin nature no soul could believe.

Without grace = total depravity.

During times which were designated by God grace took our flesh and nailed it down.
In doing so? Grace enabled our soul to be made free to choose for, or against God.

That is why no one who does not believe is with excuse. For all souls have been drawn by God with grace.

Believe it or not?

Those who reject God had their souls made free while God was drawing them. They freely chose to reject God's drawing!


grace and peace ...............
Did God present you with a choice in your life to either accept Him or reject Him and once you did the latter, you were saved?
 
Did God present you with a choice in your life to either accept Him or reject Him and once you did the latter, you were saved?

When a man looks at a woman.
Is he needing to be told he has a choice to like her, or not? No.

When a woman looks at a man.
Is she needing to be told she has a choice to like him, or not? No.

Now when a man has on blinders with ear plugs? - And, the same woman is placed before him?
Does he have any choice? No.

Likewise ... We are all born depraved with blinders and ear plugs in regards to God.

Grace must reach in and remove the blinder and ear plugs and have the "woman" placed before us.
In that case? Do all men like the woman? No.
Do all women like the man? No.

There was no pressure in that kind of choice.

In the freedom grace supplies us?
Men in the privacy of their own soul simply accept, or reject, God.
Its their free choice. No pressure that way. Its private.

There is a need for warning of the consequences for continuing their rejection after a man freely
rejects. Repent! Repent! But not before.

And, if a man accepts? There is no merit in what that man did. For its God he was attracted to.
What normal soul can not like God? There is nothing that makes a person special for believing. It only normal.

Those who will continue to reject God choose to do so because of a perversity in their soul they desire to keep.

grace and peace ............
 
Are you sure of that statement?


For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge
of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:3-4​
God's will is being thwarted. He wants it that way. For man is to be free to believe, or not.
Other wise? They really never believed if He forced them to believe in Him. That would
make God into admitting that He is a failure. That He must force people to believe. That
He must rig the election, so to speak to win.
Stop misrepresenting scripture!

What type of God do you serve who is not in control but has somehow lost control.
Read a good exposition of that verse and stop pitting scripture against scripture to tickle your ears!

God's will is NOT being thwarted.
A spiritually dead person cannot believe, and is NOT free to believe spiritual truths. He is a slave to sin. He is in bondage to his sin.
You make man sovereign and diminish God to your own peril.
 
WE CHOOSE............. exactly. We choose= free will.
And your will is not enslaved to sin!

Good for you and your friends who have this amazing ability.
Why did you ever need to be born again in the spirit if you somehow managed to will it in the flesh!
 
So you think every atheist doesn't understand the message that Christ died on the Cross to save the world?
Of course they don't!
How can you understand something without believing it to be true!
Mat_13:19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path.
Mat 13:23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”

You think they hear and understand? Do you think there can be belief without understanding something? Blind faith?
If atheists understood (Spiritual truth) within the gospel message why would they choose not to believe what they believe to be true!
That is oxymoronic.
How hard do you think that message is to understand?
1Co 2:4 and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
1Co 2:5 so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

Very difficult for some. Like these guys who mocked:
Act_17:32 Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked. But others said, “We will hear you again about this.”

Also these guys:
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,
Rom 11:8 as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day.”

And these:
1Co 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.

And these especially:
Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children;
It's their refusal to believe that leaves them where they are not their inability to understand what is being said.
Proof? Your say so does not cut it!
1Co 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

BTW, what made you better than them in that you chose to believe?
Why did you not refuse? What made you not mock?
Grace ensures the message is made perspicuous so they can know what they are rejecting.
Proof?

perspicuous:
clearly expressed and easily understood; lucid.
"it provides simpler and more perspicuous explanations than its rivals"
Your words contradict scripture as shown below:
1Co 2:4 and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
1Co 2:5 so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
Besides, there's a whole lot to believe before God can present the Gospel.
Oh wow!
Rom 3:10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
Rom 3:11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.
Rom 3:12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
Rom 3:13 “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.”
Rom 3:14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
Rom 3:15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Rom 3:16 in their paths are ruin and misery,
Rom 3:17 and the way of peace they have not known.”
Rom 3:18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Let me ask you this:
Do you believe that God draws and teaches everybody equally and that He fails in His drawing and teaching in the majority of times?
Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me

Who is the everyone spoken about in verse 45 above?
 
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