They are hearers and not doers.
They have no works
Those are not the "people" I was asking about. These are the people I asked, who they were.
some people use eisegesis to their detriment.
they are not making faith alone anything
they never had faith to begin with
I am not asking about those James is writing about. I understand that perfectly well. I asked who are the "some people" who take eisegesis of faith alone too far, and how do they take it too far. IOW what is their eisegesis that goes too far? (BTW any eisegesis is to far and to the person's detriment. It is also forbidden by Scripture itself because it is adding to and/or taking away, what is there.
we are in agreement, which you should have known. so not sure why you would bring this up
I didn't bring it up. You did. I never mentioned the book of James until you did.
Jesus said we must believe. why can't we just take Jesus at his word?
I do take him at his word. What I don't do is add "choose to" where it does not exist, as in "Choose to believe and you will be saved."
. IT (Salvation) is by grace through faith.
It did not say Faith was by grace through anything
And neither did I. It does however say that salvation is through faith so the faith is also grace. I have not read all the post where you disagree with Greek grammar and syntax in Eph 2:8, and I probably won't, as this has become exceedingly tiresome. I saw that you wrote it off as simply my view. But it was not simply my view. I agree with it but I did not do that work. Experts in Greek and Greek translation did and it agrees with Strongs. So I am baffled that someone who is not an expert would, for the sake of standing their ground, no matter how unstable it may be, presumes they can do a much better and more accurate job so that it comes out to match their presuppositions. It simply shows the propensity to never admit being incorrect, at least when engaged with certain people. Proverbs has other words for the condition.
According to Greek syntax and grammar, certain words of which Paul deliberately used instead of others, he is saying all of salvation including faith is a gift. However, simple logic will tell us the same thing since without faith there is no salvation, and salvation is by grace. The only way and place where this becomes an issue, and great effort is put forth to divorce faith from a gift in Paul's statement, is when someone is denying, no matter what, and at no matter what cost to the gospel and the work of Jesus, that God chooses who to save instead of giving everyone equal opportunity.
if you want me to see it your way yuo will have to do alot better explaining.
Well if a complete exegesis of the Greek syntax and grammar won't do it, nothing will. Your mind is locked against it.
in your view
I disagree.
He should have known. I am not questioning Jesus words. or his authority or going to try to read something into what Jesus said not implied
Do you think Nicodemus was born again when he asked Jesus how can that be? And whether you understand Jesus' reprimand of Nicodemus or not, Nicodemus knew exactly why Jesus said it and what he referred to. I found out by searching the scriptures and checking the cross references, and weighing study Bible notes. By hearing and reading teachings on it and weighing them carefully against God's written word. I didn't just pull something out of my hat and say, "Then it must be so since it is what I think."
