Question on books of the bible dating

[Red Baker]

You are thinking of a physical, stone-and-timber New Jerusalem, but that is not the nature of the New Jerusalem reality as John presented it in Revelation. The walls of the New Jerusalem, with the believers as "living stones" will never be wiped off the face of the earth or torn down.

And you are thinking of physical oceans, which John did not intend to portray with his statement about "no more sea". The "sea" in scripture was usually representative of the pagan Gentile classification of nations, considered to be separated from anything to do with the "land" of Canaan - the "promised land". God no longer puts any segregation between these under the New Covenant reality. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, bond nor free, male nor female, for ye are all one in Christ." This reality of the present New Jerusalem with "nothing unclean" in it is describing our status as being vicariously covered in Christ's righteousness under the New Covenant. Because of Christ's purity imputed to us, God can now look upon us who are "in Christ" as being vicariously pure in His sight, even though we as children of God still receive chastisement for the sins which we commit.

Well, this is the best you have spoken of concerning the book of Revelation that I have heard yet from you.

But, you go off track again when you said:

This is not the case under the New Covenant realities of the New Jerusalem which believers inhabit today.

Believers do not inhabit the New Jerusalem, they are the New Jerusalem! Revelation 21: 9-11.......

Your Preterist understanding shows itself by working so hard to prove that all of the scriptures, including Revelation was written before 70 A.D.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Believers do not inhabit the New Jerusalem, they are the New Jerusalem! Revelation 21: 9-11.......

Your Preterist understanding shows itself by working so hard to prove that all of the scriptures, including Revelation was written before 70 A.D.

If John depicted those open gates of the New Jerusalem in Revelation 22:14 with individuals being able to enter those gates, then both realities can be true. We not only are the "living stones" which are being "built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood" (1 Peter 2:5), but we have also entered the gates of the New Jerusalem as well. These realities are no more contradictory than Jesus calling Himself the "door", as well as the "Chief Shepherd".

 

[EarlyActs]

To TMSO,
I was raised in your theology about Israel and it never referenced Acts 13. It was my 2nd year in Bible college (that denomination) before I even remember reading Acts 13, and I mean Paul teaching about Israel at that synagogue. When I realized that justification by Christ was at the center of the meaning of Israel, I knew I had to start over.

 

[Mr GLee]

Funny then that the New Jerusalem may be wiped off the face of the earth , and soon .

I absolutely do not believe that

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

Yet we have seas....

I would offer.

In parables that hide the understanding of faith the invisible things of God. the metaphor Seas saltwater. Salt represents the judgment,

Fresh pure, the living water of the word Gospel .

James 3:12Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

I would seem the old dying Jerusalem wiped off up in smoke .

The new heavenly city, Jerusalem not seen in the twinkling of the eye on the last day under the sun .

 

[Rella]

You are thinking of a physical, stone-and-timber New Jerusalem, but that is not the nature of the New Jerusalem reality as John presented it in Revelation. The walls of the New Jerusalem, with the believers as "living stones" will never be wiped off the face of the earth or torn down.

And you are thinking of physical oceans, which John did not intend to portray with his statement about "no more sea". The "sea" in scripture was usually representative of the pagan Gentile classification of nations, considered to be separated from anything to do with the "land" of Canaan - the "promised land". God no longer puts any segregation between these under the New Covenant reality. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, bond nor free, male nor female, for ye are all one in Christ."


This reality of the present New Jerusalem with "nothing unclean" in it is describing our status as being vicariously covered in Christ's righteousness under the New Covenant. Because of Christ's purity imputed to us, God can now look upon us who are "in Christ" as being vicariously pure in His sight, even though we as children of God still receive chastisement for the sins which we commit.

Under the Old Covenant, there was a yearly "remembrance" of sin on the day of Atonement, which those continual animal sacrifices brought to the remembrance of the people of Israel. Uncleanness under the Old Covenant and the Old Jerusalem priesthood system continued to be a problem which those "weak and beggarly elements" kept emphasizing from year to year. Even those who were not righteous children of God were able to physically enter the grounds of the Old Jerusalem temple - including the members of the priesthood which had become corrupt.

This is not the case under the New Covenant realities of the New Jerusalem which believers inhabit today. Only those whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life reside in this New Jerusalem. But the gates of this city are never shut, so God is continually bringing other children of faith through those open gates to fellowship with other believers.

I am thinking....

The New Jerusalem as being a victorious city , where all things are made new. It is a holy city, set apart for a special purpose.

It is the place where God will dwell among His people, and it is where they will live with Him for eternity.

 

[EarlyActs]

I am thinking....

The New Jerusalem as being a victorious city , where all things are made new. It is a holy city, set apart for a special purpose.

It is the place where God will dwell among His people, and it is where they will live with Him for eternity.

It is just barely above us--if the term 'above' matters. In Acts 3, Christ is sitting at his victory reception hosted by heaven and this is of important earthly impact.

 

[Josheb]

@3 Resurrections

Just a quick question.

Do you have a go to for checking on suggested dates of when the books of the bible were written[?]

Yes. Google. Search results fall into two categories: early daters and late daters. I believe the early daters are correct. The variations are inconsequential (a year or two does not matter).

But Acts is said to be written 64AD and so the three that talk of 70AD had to be written before hand, but after the Cruciixion right?

Yes. It is likely of the New Testament was written prior to the fall of Jerusalem.

Do these seem right to you?

Math 67 AD

Mark 66 AD

Luke 63AD

Assuming Luke's Gospel and Acts were written close to one another, Acts was written about the time of Paul's correspondence with the Church in Philippi. So the 63 AD date is reasonable. I, personally, subscribe to the pov expressed by Bruce Metzger in which Matthew was written before Mark, written in Aramaic, and then later translated into Greek, possibly to have it reconcile with the Greek-written Mark. I place John's works between 66-69.

I recommend Ken Gentry's "Before Jerusalem Fell" for evidence supporting the early-date position for Revelation.

 

[3 Resurrections]

I am thinking....

The New Jerusalem as being a victorious city , where all things are made new. It is a holy city, set apart for a special purpose.

It is the place where God will dwell among His people, and it is where they will live with Him for eternity.

So, do you really believe we do not have God dwelling among His people at present? We are not waiting for this to happen. Psalms 68:18 tells us the timing connected with this reality of God dwelling among us. "Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive; thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, THAT THE LORD GOD MIGHT DWELL AMONG THEM."

When Christ Jesus ascended to heaven on the morning after His resurrection, the New Covenant was launched when He was established and consecrated by God as our Great High Priest after the deathless order of Melchizedek. By the indwelling Holy Spirit of Truth, God dwells among His people, as Christ promised for His disciples in John 14:17.

The Revelation 21- 22 New Jerusalem in the New Heavens and New Earth is descriptive of this same spiritual reality for the believers under the New Covenant. We aren't waiting for this in the future - it has already been established. This was the reality which Isaiah 65's NHNE was speaking about. The NHNE is NOT descriptive of the ages of eternity, because childbirth is still spoken about in Isaiah 65 as an ongoing condition of the NHNE, as well as physical death of both the righteous and the wicked, and prayers by the righteous still ascending to God's throne. None of these things will take place in the ages of eternity. There is no marrying, nor giving in marriage in the resurrected state. Unless you want to claim that heaven will be filled with bastard children of unmarried people continuing to give birth to offspring.

 

[Rella]

So, do you really believe we do not have God dwelling among His people at present? We are not waiting for this to happen. Psalms 68:18 tells us the timing connected with this reality of God dwelling among us. "Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive; thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, THAT THE LORD GOD MIGHT DWELL AMONG THEM."

When Christ Jesus ascended to heaven on the morning after His resurrection, the New Covenant was launched when He was established and consecrated by God as our Great High Priest after the deathless order of Melchizedek. By the indwelling Holy Spirit of Truth, God dwells among His people, as Christ promised for His disciples in John 14:17.

The Revelation 21- 22 New Jerusalem in the New Heavens and New Earth is descriptive of this same spiritual reality for the believers under the New Covenant. We aren't waiting for this in the future - it has already been established. This was the reality which Isaiah 65's NHNE was speaking about. The NHNE is NOT descriptive of the ages of eternity, because childbirth is still spoken about in Isaiah 65 as an ongoing condition of the NHNE, as well as physical death of both the righteous and the wicked, and prayers by the righteous still ascending to God's throne. None of these things will take place in the ages of eternity. There is no marrying, nor giving in marriage in the resurrected state. Unless you want to claim that heaven will be filled with bastard children of unmarried people continuing to give birth to offspring.

Sorry 3Rs.... I do not. not in the way you do.

I know that God the Holy Spirit is dwelling within His people. But not the Father among us... yet.

You say "We aren't waiting for this in the future - it has already been established. This was the reality which Isaiah 65's NHNE was speaking about. The NHNE is NOT descriptive of the ages of eternity, because childbirth is still spoken about in Isaiah 65 as an ongoing condition of the NHNE, as well as physical death of both the righteous and the wicked, and prayers by the righteous still ascending to God's throne. None of these things will take place in the ages of eternity. "

John most certainly is talking in a prophetically future way.

21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will [a]dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them[b], 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”
John is not speaking of childbirth or death.
And John wrote Rev a lot later then Isaiah Isaiah was written between 739 and 681 B.C.
Vs 9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls [f]full of the seven last plagues
......the bowels were full. They had not happened yet.
9, cont. “Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”
Now I am going to quit quoting from Rev and simply say... I know you are likely to say "But" Jesus said "12~ “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man [g]according to what he has done."
Quickly is irrelevant in the grand timings of eternity. And from Adam to today, we HAVE gotten here quickly.
"My reward is with Me, to render to every man "

Has not happened and will not until the end.

The NHNENJ is yet to come.

 

[3 Resurrections]

John most certainly is talking in a prophetically future way.

21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men,

Do you not see the contradiction you have imposed on this text? The angel announced that "the tabernacle of God IS among men...". This was already a present fact at the time the angel spoke that statement - not that this would be a reality initiated in the future. God was already dwelling with His people.

 

[3 Resurrections]

John is not speaking of childbirth or death.
And John wrote Rev a lot later then Isaiah Isaiah was written between 739 and 681 B.C.

John in Revelation 21-22 was speaking of the conditions of the New Heavens and the New Earth reality. This is the very same New Heavens and New Earth that Isaiah 65 prophesied about, which would include building houses, planting and harvesting crops, giving birth to children, offering prayers to God, and physical death still occurring for both the wicked and the righteous. The ages of eternity will not have the existence of the wicked around anymore. This tells us that both John and Isaiah were NOT speaking of the ages of eternity when referring to the NHNE.

The reason why John wrote that there would be "no more death" in this New Jerusalem reality is because Christ had already "abolished death" as Paul wrote in 2 Timothy 1:10. "...who has abolished death, and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel." This was a different case than the Old Covenant conditions and that physical temple worship system which did NOT have the power to abolish death. It was a blood-soaked, death-riddled, continual remembrance of sin all year round, with those continual animal sacrifices making that point very clear.

In direct contrast, the New Covenant in Christ DID abolish death for us. Those who are children of God displaying belief in Christ Jesus already possess eternal life of the spirit, as Christ spoke about in John 5:24. This present indwelling Holy Spirit is the "earnest" or pledge that our bodily resurrection from the grave to immortality is an assured "sealed" promise which will be fulfilled with the redemption of our physical bodies.

 

[Rella]

Do you not see the contradiction you have imposed on this text? The angel announced that "the tabernacle of God IS among men...". This was already a present fact at the time the angel spoke that statement - not that this would be a reality initiated in the future. God was already dwelling with His people.

I see this...

And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will [a]dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them[b], 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

In the New Testament, Jesus, who is is called the “radiance of the glory of God,” dwells with His people
John 1: 14 And the Word became flesh, and [k]dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of [l]the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Fact, the word John uses here for “dwell” in the Greek means “to live in a tent,” referring to the tabernacle Moses set up in Exodus 40

If you want a refresher Exodus 40 :1- 38 explains that



Jesus actually set up a tabernacle among us! Jesus is the temple; He was the divine glorious presence of God in his physical person.



Now, in John 16:7 we see.... that Jesus was to to be the temple, or God's presence in person forever

But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the [c]Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you

And we know that the helper was/is none other then the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said that it was better that He go so that the “advocate” would come, that is, “the Spirit.” When Jesus took on the likeness of humanity

Remember Philipians 2:7 7 but [a]emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
and
Hebrews 2:7-9
7“You have made him [a]for a little while lower than the angels;
You have crowned him with glory and honor,
[b]And have appointed him over the works of Your hands;
8 You have put all things in subjection under his feet.”
For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him
.9 But we do see Him who was made [c]for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.


In Acts 1:6-9

Jesus is saying that when the Spirit comes, the presence of God will be available to all people.

~Jesus is enthroned over heaven and earth, but not before promising that the Holy Spirit will come upon them and give them power. With all of this background in mind, the disciples were expectant and ready for something new to happen.

“And suddenly, there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them” see Acts 2:2-3

The descriptive images of wind and fire make a lot more sense.and understanding as The Spirit of God came upon each one of the apostles in a magnificent display of wind and fire, just like it did in Exodus 19. leviticus 9, 1 Kings 8a d Exekiel 43


Now the presence of God is for all of God’s people, not simply a select few.

Remember, Jesus called twelve disciples to represent the twelve tribes of Israel, and the presence of God rested on each one of them! Every person in the room experienced God’s presence personally, not just priests from the tribe of Levi.

When Peter goes to speak to those who witnessed the event, he explains it to The Jewish people that were present in Acts 2 whohad come from “every nation under heaven.” This was the beginning of the fulfillment of all that God wanted for His people. What once only Moses could experience, then later only the priests could experience, is now available for all people to experience! The Lord finally dwells with His people and has made them a kingdom of priests ~ see Peter 2:9


We Are The Temple
What does this mean for us? It goes without saying that this is all made possible because of Jesus! He said in

John 14; 16-17 , that they will have the Spirit sent to them.

Then in Acts 1 , He promises that they will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Finally, in Acts2, we see not only the Hebrew Scriptures concerning the presence of God coming to their fulfillment, we also see Jesus’ words find their fulfillment as well.

The presence of God inhabiting His people means that we are now part of the new temple, with Jesus being the center of it all, or as Paul puts it, the cornerstone:

“...You are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit” (Ephesians 2:19-22).


The Hebrew Scriptures anticipated the day when the Spirit of God would be present among all of His people. The result is simply this: God’s holy space is now the people of God who have found their identity in Jesus and His finished work. The Lord wanted to dwell with His people, and He made a way for that to become a reality.

BUT.... WILL. The very simple word I quoted in Rev is future.... that part has not happened... YET




Previous
Chaos Monster
https://bibleproject.com/articles/

 

[Red Baker]

The Revelation 21- 22 New Jerusalem in the New Heavens and New Earth is descriptive of this same spiritual reality for the believers under the New Covenant. We aren't waiting for this in the future - it has already been established. This was the reality which Isaiah 65's NHNE was speaking about. The NHNE is NOT descriptive of the ages of eternity, because childbirth is still spoken about in Isaiah 65 as an ongoing condition of the NHNE, as well as physical death of both the righteous and the wicked, and prayers by the righteous still ascending to God's throne. None of these things will take place in the ages of eternity. There is no marrying, nor giving in marriage in the resurrected state. Unless you want to claim that heaven will be filled with bastard children of unmarried people continuing to give birth to offspring.

Greg Duren texted me this week telling me that the church he is now attending are going through Revelation, and Greg would totally agree with this interpretation of Revelation 21,22. Greg is a godly man, very humble and very sincere.

Thanks for posting, you are stirring me up to dig deeper. As I have said~converison is an on going work never ending.

 

[TMSO]

Re to confirm for a week
We must not be fastened to how we think the text is speaking. It took a Danielic week for Jesus to firm up the covenant. He did not just put the new (not) covenant out there for a week and withdraw it. It is from the early church years all clarified and solidified, going forward.

You are right. That is because Jesus has nothing to do with the covenant in the 70 weeks prophecy. The one who makes the covenant VIOLATES the covenant. Your Jesus may break covenants, but even God made it a point to say in the Old Testament that it didn't matter what Israel did, He would not be the one to break the covenant. It was even prophesied. No matter how many times Israel violated the covenant, God took them back. Even the 70 weeks shows that God never rescinds the calling, as Paul says the calling cannot be rescinded.

 

[TMSO]

re antecedents
As I gave in a previous example, key antecedents can shift on us, and we may think one thing is being said when it is not. There is a Roman ruler with an army. There is a horrid guy from 8:13 who leads a rebellion. And there is the Anointed Messiah.

The reason I say I think is so that I don't make the permanent mistake about an antecedent. But the fact is, his death did come quickly like a (flash) flood. And there was a decree that the person fighting against the ruler who came (Rome) would perish with his movement and the city and sanctuary, because the new covenant is a mission to the world, as was known for generations, Gen 3 and 15.

It would be great if you listed the identity of each pronoun in the vision

You still violate the 70 weeks. The time between Jesus death and the destruction of the temple/sanctuary is a lot longer then 7 years. God is precise. God said 70 weeks. So either God made a mistake, or there is a gap and it isn't Jesus. Which is it?

 

[TMSO]

re a gap
There is no such thing in the text. It is imagine from other possible sources and the Rev is a really poor source for these things. The text itself is about the horrible ending of the race-nation Israel, while those who became missionaries as God wished thrive. It is a pretty good miniature of that generation of 1st century Judea.

According to Jesus and the Old Testament, the time of Jacob's trouble is to be the worst event in the history of Israel, past and future. The Holocaust was A LOT worse than anything that happened in the first century. And, there can very well be worse to come, knowing that if there was to be an all out war, it would be a nuclear holocaust.

 

[TMSO]

re the contingency of 24B.
They originally believed the end of the world was upon them, right after the destruction of Israel. See Rom 2. It would be the judgement of the whole world. But they also knew that there was an allowance that the Father might delay. Mk 13 has a parable that gives 4 options! 2P3 was written to explain this delay very directly. We now know that God deliberately delayed. Lattourrette in his history of the church, p44, explains that the apostles realized this had to be the case and that mission work should resume once they knew that the world was not going to be inflamed, after Jerusalem.

Say your not a Calvinist without saying you aren't a Calvinist. An allowance? As though God the Father has no clue when the world is going to end because He hasn't decided? Jesus is clear. The Father knows EXACTLY when the world will end. A determinist knows the Father knows this. There is no delay. Even Peter said there is no delay, because God does not view the world/time as we do.

That generation was to see all the things of Mt24A.

You keep forgetting the parable of the fig tree, and you forget that Jesus said that ALL that came before the fig tree would be accomplished, including the gathering of ALL the elect from the Earth. If what you are saying is true, then you can't be elect. I can't be elect. There can be no elect left.

Matthew 24"29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from [r]the sky, and the powers of [s]the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His [t]elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other."

"32 “Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so, you too, when you see all these things, [u]recognize that [v]He is near, right at the [w]door. 34 Truly I say to you, this [x]generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away."

When you see all these things. THIS GENERATION will not pass away. That is, the generation that sees the signs and recognizes that Jesus second coming is right at the door. They will see Jesus second coming, all the tribes of the Earth mourning at Jesus return, and the collection of His people from the four winds by His angels.

Besides a 2nd round for Israel as a race-nation breaking much of NT theology, it is driven by a mistake made by D'ism. Ryrie wrote: there are two distinct programs in the Bible and they cannot meet because of having two distinct locations and ways of salvation. This psychosis has led good pastors to think that the atonement in Dan 9 is not Christ but another atonement for Israel later. Isn't there a fundamental violation here of the one Gospel, of Eph 4A, etc?

There is one program with two parts. Two tracts. The lost sheep of the house of Israel, and another flock. Spoke of... separately. What you don't seem to understand about the 70 weeks prophecy is that it deals solely...SOLELY...SOLELY with Israel. That is what God specifically states to Daniel. 70 weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city. This prophecy has NOTHING to do with Gentiles. A Gentile is involved, however, the prophecy was decreed for Israel. The end of the prophecy is the end of the transgression, sin, the bringing in of everlasting righteousness, the sealing up of prophecy, etc. So please tell me, where is the everlasting righteousness in Israel? Where is the end of the transgression and sin? Where are there prophets being attacked by their families? At what time did the whole world see Jesus return and mourn over Him, as He gathered up all His elect?

The mistake with the 70 weeks is to believe that Jesus didn't come the first time to die for sin, and would return again to set up His earthly kingdom in Israel. The mistake is believing that Israel didn't reject Jesus, and thus the focus of history moved to the Gentiles, as Paul specifically states in Romans. And Paul also speaks of it shifting back to Israel after the fulness of the Gentiles has come in. That will be the 70th week. Satan will have his last chance to destroy Israel, and Jesus Himself (Rev 19) will come and save Israel. And then Zechariah will be fulfilled.

 

[TMSO]

re everyone will see him
There is a 2nd coming when the Father decides and it does not have a pile of Judaic events associated with it. See 2P3. There is nothing. There is no significance to modern Israel except that the same Judaism seems to be there again and is very harsh on what few evangelical believers are there. It has been this way for decades.

Actually Jesus is very clear that there are Judaic events. The time of Jacob's trouble. The Great Tribulation (same thing). Jesus speaks of it specifically, and says as soon as it ends, He returns. "29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from [r]the sky, and the powers of [s]the heavens will be shaken." Immediately after the Great Tribulation, Jesus returns and gathers in His elect. " 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His [t]elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other."

A renegade evangelical girl, Jane Evans, who changed her name to George Eliot to get published, read the OT with no input from the NT and depicted the Jewish Zionist movement as specifically unversed in the NT and 'fulfilling' the OT without any reference to the NT. See her novel DANIEL DERONDA. She also translated the German theologian D Strauss' LIFE OF JESUS specifically to shred the historicity of the NT and say it was entirely contrived later. Her novel catapulted interest and money toward modern Israel, but it has nothing to do with the NT, and she's too smart not to have known of Pastor Holford's study of the destruction of Israel a generation earlier; she just helped scholarship bury it. She was personally quite an immoral person. Not very promising 'soil' for modern Israel to grow out of.

Israel was to be gathered again into their land, and that was 1948. There is yet a tribulation that would remove all flesh from Earth, that has not yet happened. (I'm pretty sure there would be no one around with Earth: population 0.)

 

[EarlyActs]

You still violate the 70 weeks. The time between Jesus death and the destruction of the temple/sanctuary is a lot longer then 7 years. God is precise. God said 70 weeks. So either God made a mistake, or there is a gap and it isn't Jesus. Which is it?

In 2 Peter 3 is it is mistake for God to delay?

 

[EarlyActs]

Say your not a Calvinist without saying you aren't a Calvinist. An allowance? As though God the Father has no clue when the world is going to end because He hasn't decided? Jesus is clear. The Father knows EXACTLY when the world will end. A determinist knows the Father knows this. There is no delay. Even Peter said there is no delay, because God does not view the world/time as we do.

You keep forgetting the parable of the fig tree, and you forget that Jesus said that ALL that came before the fig tree would be accomplished, including the gathering of ALL the elect from the Earth. If what you are saying is true, then you can't be elect. I can't be elect. There can be no elect left.

Matthew 24"29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from [r]the sky, and the powers of [s]the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His [t]elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other."

"32 “Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so, you too, when you see all these things, [u]recognize that [v]He is near, right at the [w]door. 34 Truly I say to you, this [x]generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away."

When you see all these things. THIS GENERATION will not pass away. That is, the generation that sees the signs and recognizes that Jesus second coming is right at the door. They will see Jesus second coming, all the tribes of the Earth mourning at Jesus return, and the collection of His people from the four winds by His angels.

There is one program with two parts. Two tracts. The lost sheep of the house of Israel, and another flock. Spoke of... separately. What you don't seem to understand about the 70 weeks prophecy is that it deals solely...SOLELY...SOLELY with Israel. That is what God specifically states to Daniel. 70 weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city. This prophecy has NOTHING to do with Gentiles. A Gentile is involved, however, the prophecy was decreed for Israel. The end of the prophecy is the end of the transgression, sin, the bringing in of everlasting righteousness, the sealing up of prophecy, etc. So please tell me, where is the everlasting righteousness in Israel? Where is the end of the transgression and sin? Where are there prophets being attacked by their families? At what time did the whole world see Jesus return and mourn over Him, as He gathered up all His elect?

The mistake with the 70 weeks is to believe that Jesus didn't come the first time to die for sin, and would return again to set up His earthly kingdom in Israel. The mistake is believing that Israel didn't reject Jesus, and thus the focus of history moved to the Gentiles, as Paul specifically states in Romans. And Paul also speaks of it shifting back to Israel after the fulness of the Gentiles has come in. That will be the 70th week. Satan will have his last chance to destroy Israel, and Jesus Himself (Rev 19) will come and save Israel. And then Zechariah will be fulfilled.

When John quoted Zechariah on that it was about the Gospel not about Israel’s future.