I'm not seeing your answer:
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So for all the lurkers and guests who are NOT going to look through all of your posts
Let see your answer....
Is it possible that God's elect will not be saved?
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Predestination?
- Thread starter donadams
- Start date
Did you use invisible fonts?
So for all the lurkers and guests who are NOT going to look through all of your posts
Let see your answer....
Is it possible that God's elect will not be saved?
Explain God's foreknowledge (prognosis) that I may know it was "my bad."
@donadamsI'm not seeing your answer:
Did you use invisible fonts?
So for all the lurkers and guests who are NOT going to look through all of your posts
Let see your answer....
Is it possible that God's elect will not be saved?
still waiting
Of courseI'm not seeing your answer:
Did you use invisible fonts?
So for all the lurkers and guests who are NOT going to look through all of your posts
Let see your answer....
Is it possible that God's elect will not be saved?
1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
God know who is going to accept His salvation and persevere to the end. Jn 15:4 mk 13:13
Thks
Of course he does. . .because in his loving foreknowledge of them before they were ever created, he has decreed that they shall do so.
However, "my bad" requires that God foreknew based on a choice of their own, not based on a decree.
No "my bad" for me here. . .methinks it may be your "my bad."
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you are in error:
Can you be corrected?
fo all to see
(all Catholic sources)
"By definition, the ELECT are those whom God infallibly foresees will be saved (Rom 8:28-30).
By this definition, it is impossible for the elect to be lost, precisely because God foreknows who will not be lost. But since election depends on God's infallible foreknowledge, we simply have no way of knowing whether or not we are in that category -- God knows with certainty His elect, but we do not. The elect are predestined in the sense that God knows them, and enables them by grace, to be saved"
//www.biblicalcatholic.com/apologetics/num21.htm
Election: The eternal choice by God of those whom He absolutely wills to be saved.
//www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=33146
The Scriptures as well as the Catholic Church teach that God elects only some for salvation, and God knew of their election from all eternity.
//www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/is-gods-election-of-the-faithful-unconditional
And
And from your #1 Pope
1Peter 1: To God’s elect, ... who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood"
So the correct answer to the question
Q: "is it possible for the God's Elect" to not be saved?"
A: It is IMPOSSIBLE for the "Elect" to not be saved
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Falls somewhat short of demonstrating the Biblical error of @1Thess521.
Pure hubris:
Another forum-posting Catholic who can be corrected by more knowledgeable Catholics
I can add even more:
Theological term equivalent to 'chosen as the object of mercy or Divine favour, as set apart for eternal life'
The Catholic Church has no problem with referring to “the elect” as those who will finally persevere until the end and attain final salvationCathoic.com
@donadams has a problem with it,
Know this:
All of your conclusions based on your faulty assumptions that it is possible the Elect not be saved, are invalid.
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a few verse later:
30 And then the sign of the Son of Man* will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31n And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Your post is a PERFECT example of how your faulty premise leads to invalid conclusions.
I have presented 4 separate Catholic sources stating the Elect will absolutely be saved.
Please present another Catholic source (other than yourself) who says otherwise.
From ECFs to EWTN:
Aquinas? Augustine?...
From pre-Vatican II to Post-Vatican II. .
from Pope to Pope...
does anyone agree with your personal interpretation that the elect may lose their salvation?
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makesends
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She rather obviously meant that it is not about what you think of as foreknowledge. In Scripture, for God to foreknow something, is not simply or only to know ahead of time what they will do.
Do you think you have gained a step or two in convincing someone that their position is faulty, by pointing out obvious misstatements, Freudian slips or typos? You have become noisy, not reasonable.
A simple, "sorry", will do.
Sorry
They are members of Christ and his church by faith and baptism and choose (key word) to abide in Christ (Jn 15:4) and endure to the end (matt 24;13) faithful!Pure hubris:
Another forum-posting Catholic who can be corrected by more knowledgeable Catholics
I can add even more:
Theological term equivalent to 'chosen as the object of mercy or Divine favour, as set apart for eternal life'
The Catholic Church has no problem with referring to “the elect” as those who will finally persevere until the end and attain final salvation
Cathoic.com
@donadams has a problem with it,
Know this:
All of your conclusions based on your faulty assumptions that it is possible the Elect not be saved, are invalid.
Why is Jesus declaring Antipas “faithful”?
Rev. 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Where was Judas an apostle ever declared faithful?
Elect? Really
Since you choose to ignore a list of scripture
Here’s gal 5
Paul is speaking to Christians “the elect”!
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Seems rather ridiculous to tell the elect who cannot be lost to avoid things that cos them to be lost???
Thks
Here’s gal 5
Paul is speaking to Christians “the elect”!
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Seems rather ridiculous to tell the elect who cannot be lost to avoid things that cos them to be lost???
Thks
Warnings are one of the ways God preserves the elect.
The elect heed the warnings, the non-elect, not so much.
I have presented 4 separate Catholic sources stating the Elect will absolutely be saved.
Please present another Catholic source (other than yourself) who says otherwise.
From ECFs to EWTN:
Aquinas? Augustine?...
From pre-Vatican II to Post-Vatican II. .
from Pope to Pope...
does anyone agree with your personal interpretation that the elect may lose their salvation?
In the NT : the elect refer to the God's elect undo salvation:
Everyone who is among the elect will be saved.
No one who is not among the elect will be saved.
Other Catholics do not agree with your personal "understanding" of of Scripture:
Admit you were wrong and move on..
(all Catholic sources)
"By definition, the ELECT are those whom God infallibly foresees will be saved (Rom 8:28-30).
By this definition, it is impossible for the elect to be lost, precisely because God foreknows who will not be lost. But since election depends on God's infallible foreknowledge, we simply have no way of knowing whether or not we are in that category -- God knows with certainty His elect, but we do not. The elect are predestined in the sense that God knows them, and enables them by grace, to be saved"
//www.biblicalcatholic.com/apologetics/num21.htm
Election: The eternal choice by God of those whom He absolutely wills to be saved.
//www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=33146
The Scriptures as well as the Catholic Church teach that God elects only some for salvation, and God knew of their election from all eternity.
//www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/is-gods-election-of-the-faithful-unconditional
"Theological term equivalent to 'chosen as the object of mercy or Divine favour, as set apart for eternal life'
The Catholic Church has no problem with referring to “the elect” as those who will finally persevere until the end and attain final salvationCathoic.com
And from your Pope #1
1Peter 1: To God’s elect, ... who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood"
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I just read through this forum…not every sentence…enough to get a sense of what is being discussed and how.
The Lord was recorded as having said…“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” (John 13:34-35 NKJV) We might need to work on this a bit around here?
Perhaps @donadams has a history around here that I am not aware of...none the less he got rolled pretty hard as it would seem...over a challenging question. It was not @donadams who brought "election" into this discussion initially...though the two are related...seems like things got somewhat sidetracked there.
An example of “predestination” is God the Father of creation who knew His plan for all things…before He created any of them. Does this mean that everything went according to His perfect righteous and holy predestined will for creation?
Though He knew all things…did He decree for example…for Satan to rebel? Did He foreordain Adam to fall in sin? Was it His predestined will or desire that caused evil, temptation and sin to occur? Did God the Father “make” Satan rebel or Adam disobey Him?
I suppose there are some who believe that the Father of creation caused that by His intention or will…that seems like a difficult proposition since God cannot lie…nor is He the author of temptation and sin. Sin is the work of the devil…the Son of God appeared to destroy the works of the devil.
My point…though it was God the Father who created all things through Christ…beforehand…which is where the idea of “predestination or predestined” comes from…He…did not create temptation, evil, lies, rebellion, disobedience and sin…He is not the author of those things.
So predestination or predestined cannot mean one was “created to sin” nor was one “created to be saved” without regard to their own life choice or will. It does mean that God the Father of creation put forth His will in creating all that has been created…and that He has and is making His perfect will known to His creation…but obviously to some degree…He allows some element of creation to choose His will or not.
So @donadams…how do you feel about my post on “Predestination?”
Predestination…G4309 – proorizó to predetermine, foreordain…to determine or decree beforehand.
Tatwo...
