Predestination?

[Arial]

@donadams entitled the forum "Predestination?" his OP was the question..."In your understanding what does predestination mean or imply?" Am I incorrect in thinking he desired a discussion concerning "predestination?"

You are incorrect. If you were correct he would actually be having that conversation.

 

[1Thess521]

Is Grace IRRESISTIBLE?

irrelevant to who are the the elect

and more:
Scripture also refers to those whom God has “elected” (Greek, eklektos, “chosen”), and theologians often link this term to predestination, understanding the elect as those God has predestined to salvation.

What Is Predestination?

Does God really will every person to heaven or hell, and the person can't do anything about it? Some Protestants teach that, but the Church doesn't.

www.catholic.com

 

[Arial]

Is Grace IRRESISTIBLE?

If you are referring to the doctrine as it exists within the "I"of TULIP---- yes it is. God always accomplishes what He sets out to accomplish. Don't confuse that with resisting the Holy Spirit by our thoughts and actions.

 

[donadams]

If you are referring to the doctrine as it exists within the "I"of TULIP---- yes it is. God always accomplishes what He sets out to accomplish. Don't confuse that with resisting the Holy Spirit by our thoughts and actions.

Grace is not irresistible or explain judas please

 

[1Thess521]

Sin causes the loss of souls

Gal 5:20-21

We have seen multiple sources and poster stating the the elect are those who absolute will be saved.
@donadams who do you say are the Elect (predestined to salvation) in the NT?
In the NT what does it mean to be part of God's elect unto salvation?

 

[donadams]

Truth
To God’s elect, ... who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood"

Please provide any Catholic source that says it is possible that God's elect for salvation will not be saved in the end

Please answer 115
God wills that all men be saved are they?

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge ofthe truth.

 

[Arial]

Grace is not irresistible or explain judas please

What saving grace was given to Judas? Judas was a son of perdition according to Scripture. If he had believed Jesus to be Son of God, he would not have betrayed Him. Judas had no faith, he was not elected unto salvation, and grace for faith was not given to him. All of it according the the will of God.

 

[donadams]

We have seen multiple sources and poster stating the the elect are those who absolute will be saved.
@donadams who do you say are the Elect (predestined to salvation) in the NT?
In the NT what does it mean to be part of God's elect unto salvation?

I did send then you ignored them
Trent
Canon 4. If anyone says that man's free will moved and aroused by God, by assenting to God's call and action, in no way cooperates toward disposing and preparing itself to obtain the grace of justification, that it cannot refuse its assent if it wishes, but that, as something inanimate, it does nothing whatever and is merely passive, let him be anathema.

Canon 5. If anyone says that after the sin of Adam man's free will was lost and destroyed, or that it is a thing only in name, indeed a name without a reality, a fiction introduced into the Church by Satan, let him be anathema.

Canon 6. If anyone says that it is not in man's power to make his ways evil, but that the works that are evil as well as those that are good God produces, not permissively only but also propria et per se, so that the treason of Judas is no less His own proper work than the vocation of St. Paul, let him be anathema.

Canon 15. If anyone says that a man who is born again and justified is bound ex fide to believe that he is certainly in the number of the predestined, let him be anathema.

Canon 16. If anyone says that he will for certain, with an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance even to the end, unless he shall have learned this by a special revelation, let him be anathema.

Canon 17. If anyone says that the grace of justification is shared by those only who are predestined to life, but that all others who are called are called indeed but receive not grace, as if they are by divine power predestined to evil, let him be anathema.

Thks

 

[donadams]

What saving grace was given to Judas? Judas was a son of perdition according to Scripture. If he had believed Jesus to be Son of God, he would not have betrayed Him. Judas had no faith, he was not elected unto salvation, and grace for faith was not given to him. All of it according the the will of God.

An apostle of christ? Bishop, in the ministry?

 

[donadams]

What saving grace was given to Judas? Judas was a son of perdition according to Scripture. If he had believed Jesus to be Son of God, he would not have betrayed Him. Judas had no faith, he was not elected unto salvation, and grace for faith was not given to him. All of it according the the will of God.

Gow can we ne be fallen from grace who had no grace?

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

[1Thess521]

Please answer 115

Jesus is the redeemer of all the redeemed.
Jesus is not the redeemer of the unredeemed

God wills that all men be saved are they?

But He doesn't will all men to be saved.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge ofthe truth.

that is a poor translation.
The Greek has "desires": not "will"

1 Timothy 2:4 - A Call to Prayer

who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

biblehub.com

 

[1Thess521]

I did send then you ignored them
Trent
Canon 4. If anyone says that man's free will moved and aroused by God, by assenting to God's call and action, in no way cooperates toward disposing and preparing itself to obtain the grace of justification, that it cannot refuse its assent if it wishes, but that, as something inanimate, it does nothing whatever and is merely passive, let him be anathema.

Canon 5. If anyone says that after the sin of Adam man's free will was lost and destroyed, or that it is a thing only in name, indeed a name without a reality, a fiction introduced into the Church by Satan, let him be anathema.

Canon 6. If anyone says that it is not in man's power to make his ways evil, but that the works that are evil as well as those that are good God produces, not permissively only but also propria et per se, so that the treason of Judas is no less His own proper work than the vocation of St. Paul, let him be anathema.

Canon 15. If anyone says that a man who is born again and justified is bound ex fide to believe that he is certainly in the number of the predestined, let him be anathema.

Canon 16. If anyone says that he will for certain, with an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance even to the end, unless he shall have learned this by a special revelation, let him be anathema.

Canon 17. If anyone says that the grace of justification is shared by those only who are predestined to life, but that all others who are called are called indeed but receive not grace, as if they are by divine power predestined to evil, let him be anathema.

Thks

But that is not the same thing
That is your error.
Lets see your definition of "God's elect to salvation" and the difference will be obvious.

 

[Arial]

Gow can we ne be fallen from grace who had no grace?

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

I didn't say he was fallen from grace and neither do the scriptures.

 

[Arial]

An apostle of christ? Bishop, in the ministry?

Please make responses to posts that actually relate in some way to the post they are responding to.

 

[donadams]

Jesus is the redeemer of all the redeemed.
Jesus is not the redeemer of the unredeemed

But He doesn't will all men to be saved.

that is a poor translation.
The Greek has "desires": not "will"

1 Timothy 2:4 - A Call to Prayer

who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

biblehub.com

He is the redeemer of all men
Whole world

All people

Lk 2:10-11
10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Thks

 

[donadams]

But that is not the same thing
That is your error.
Lets see your definition of "God's elect to salvation" and the difference will be obvious.

Did you read any of it?

 

[1Thess521]

Did you read any of it?

Yep every bit
And it has nothing to do with the definition of the elect

 

[donadams]

What saving grace was given to Judas? Judas was a son of perdition according to Scripture. If he had believed Jesus to be Son of God, he would not have betrayed Him. Judas had no faith, he was not elected unto salvation, and grace for faith was not given to him. All of it according the the will of God.

The bible says Jesus chose judas elected
Thks

 

[Arial]

The bible says Jesus chose judas elected
Thks

What does it say he was chosen for---elected to?

 

[donadams]

How can there be the practice of excommunication if we are all elect in your understanding