Mr GLee
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What does it say?
Predestination?
- Thread starter donadams
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What does it say?
Iv’e have experienced this strategy of yours before, no not till you respond to each verse and show how they mean the opposite of what scripture actually says!That is not what I asked
This is
is it possible for the "Elect" to not be saved?
Why won't you answer the question asked?
Here are the possible answers for you
Yes . is it possible for the "Elect" to not be saved
No. it is NOT possible the "Elect" will not be saved
Ideas to help kids Restate the Question in the Answer
Ideas and resources for teaching students to Restate the Question in the Answer: PQA, TTQA, RACE acronyms are included.www.talesfromoutsidetheclassroom.com
You complained to me you want an honest conversation : then step up and answer the question asked.
Turn on your spin machine!
Its Dishonest
Its Disingenuous
And plain Rude
Thks
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Have you changed the subject from predestination (before you deal with those comments that were given to your question) to irresistible grace?
John 1:11 Does not contain the word "chose", it does not infer it, or imply it. It is easy to put it there when one does not considering all of Scripture and when one has been taught nothing but human choice in salvation.
What we really should be looking at, instead of isolating one passage, is put it into the context of what John is doing in John 1. He is identifying Jesus as eternal deity and His purpose in coming in verses 1-5. He was also identifying Him to his Jewish audience as the long awaited Messiah.
In 6-5 John identifies another person, John the baptist as the one promised in Is 40:3-5The voice of one crying in the wilderness: "Prepare the way of the LORD; Make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Every valley shall be exalted and every mountain and hill brought low; the crooked places smooth; the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together; for the mouth of the Lord has spoken."
From this the Jews should have recognized Jesus as the one they anticipated, steeped in these scriptures as they were. But they did not. That is what verse 11 is saying. He came to His own (the Jews) and His own people did not receive him.
12. But to all who did receive Him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God..
The bold completely removes the idea of human choice from anywhere in the passage.
Conditional perseverance:
((If you are saved there would no reason to participate, no reason to abide or endure, and no need for perseverance))
Mk 13:13 endure to the end
Matt 7:14
Matt 16:24
Matt 24:13 endure to the end
Jn 2:24-25
Jn 8:9
Jn 15:4 abide in christ
Jn 15:5
Jn 15:10
Rom 1:5
Rom 8:13-17
Rom 11:22
1 cor 7:24
1 cor 13:7
2 thes 1:4
Gal 5:2-4
Gal 5:25
Col 1:21-23
Col 2:5
2 Tim 2:3
2 Tim 2:12
1 pet 2:20
1 Jn 2:24-28
1 Jn 3:6
Heb 3:4-6
Heb 6:4-9
Heb 12:7
Heb 12:22-25
James 1:12
1 John 2:6
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
But since your save you don’t really have to.
(((The “Your Saved” gospel is another gospel and not the true gospel revealed by Christ and taught by His church))) Matt 28:19
Gal 1:6 1 Timothy 4:1 2 Tim 4:3
((If you are saved there would no reason to participate, no reason to abide or endure, and no need for perseverance))
Mk 13:13 endure to the end
Matt 7:14
Matt 16:24
Matt 24:13 endure to the end
Jn 2:24-25
Jn 8:9
Jn 15:4 abide in christ
Jn 15:5
Jn 15:10
Rom 1:5
Rom 8:13-17
Rom 11:22
1 cor 7:24
1 cor 13:7
2 thes 1:4
Gal 5:2-4
Gal 5:25
Col 1:21-23
Col 2:5
2 Tim 2:3
2 Tim 2:12
1 pet 2:20
1 Jn 2:24-28
1 Jn 3:6
Heb 3:4-6
Heb 6:4-9
Heb 12:7
Heb 12:22-25
James 1:12
1 John 2:6
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
But since your save you don’t really have to.
(((The “Your Saved” gospel is another gospel and not the true gospel revealed by Christ and taught by His church))) Matt 28:19
Gal 1:6 1 Timothy 4:1 2 Tim 4:3
You are saved to be holy and to persevere in faith, which are accompanied with exhortations and warnings to enable one to do so.
fo all to see
Can you be corrected?
(all Catholic sources)
"By definition, the ELECT are those whom God infallibly foresees will be saved (Rom 8:28-30).
By this definition, it is impossible for the elect to be lost, precisely because God foreknows who will not be lost. But since election depends on God's infallible foreknowledge, we simply have no way of knowing whether or not we are in that category -- God knows with certainty His elect, but we do not. The elect are predestined in the sense that God knows them, and enables them by grace, to be saved"
//www.biblicalcatholic.com/apologetics/num21.htm
Election: The eternal choice by God of those whom He absolutely wills to be saved.
//www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=33146
The Scriptures as well as the Catholic Church teach that God elects only some for salvation, and God knew of their election from all eternity.
//www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/is-gods-election-of-the-faithful-unconditional
And
And from your #1 Pope
1Peter 1: To God’s elect, ... who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood"
So the answer to the question Q: "is it possible for the "Elect" to not be saved?"
A: It is IMPOSSIBLE for the "Elect" to not be saved
strategy??
I asked you a yes or no question!
I've have experienced this strategy of yours before,
REFUSAL to directly answer a direct question:
You build conclusions based on a false premise:
Conclusions based on a false premise are invalid.
So I am asking you for your presuppositional assumption:
"is it possible for the "Elect" to not be saved?"
If you are wrong on that answer: than your conclusions based on that are in error.
Welcome to presuppositional apologetics!
- Your claims will be examined, challenged, and questioned.
- The assumptions that lead to your claims will be examined, challenged, and questioned.
- The implications that come from your claims will be examined, challenged, and questioned.
- The evidence you present for your claims will be examined, challenged, and questioned.
is it possible for the "Elect" to not be saved?
Last edited:
I MUST answer yes or no and can give reasons or scriptures my yes?
Are you hiding something?
Q: hey used car dealer: was this car ever in an accident?
A: it was driven by a little old lady!
That is not what was asked
I am examining the underlying assumptions for the claims you make.
This is an apologetic website: and you are in an apologetic forum
1 Peter 3:15
627 apología (from 575 /apó, "from" and 3056 /lógos, "intelligent reasoning") – properly, a well-reasoned reply; a thought-out response to adequately address the issue(s) that is raised.
A reasoned argument (defense) that presented evidence (supplied compelling proof).]
10th time asking
Is it possible for the "Elect" to not be saved?
What good is scripture if we don’t believe it and dismiss it out of hand?
We don't interpret Scripture the same way:
So I am asking you a direct question
11th time asking
Is it possible for the "Elect" to not be saved?
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No. Verse 13 follows verse 12 and this is how it reads and it is the rest of the sentence begun in verse 12:
who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
So this is what the sentence of verse 12 and 13 is saying: those who believe are those who have been born of God (see John 3), not those who choose to believe as clearly it says it is NOT by man's will, or of the flesh, but by God.
If the whole sentence is considered, what do you say it means? Answering this question would be consistent with a normal, even expected, conversation on the subject at hand. To not answer it would be----well, rude.
from your #1 Pope
1Peter 1: To God’s elect, ... who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood"
12th time asking
Is it possible for the "Elect" to not be saved?
I cannot think of any acceptable reason for @donadams to avoid answering a direct question:
There are no "gotchas" if you are on the side of truth.
I hope the guests and lurkers are noticing.
all the wasted posts when all @donadams has to do is type 2 or 3 letters
Is it possible for the "Elect" to not be saved?
Well, the Biblical answer is no.
Which verse of scripture do you reject?
God forces you yo be saved against your will???
And even worse forces you to be lost even if you comply with Jos requirements for salvation and Love Him???
God offers / provides salvation
Jn 3:16 whosoever! Must choose to believe and remain in belief
Jn 15:4-6 choose to abide
Matt 24:13 endures to the end
Thks
I did but you missed it!
I MUST answer yes or no and can give no reasons or scriptures for my yes?
