Predestination?

[Carbon]

Where do we find that presented in the NT word of God?

Exactly.

 

[Red Baker]

Sign of predestination to eternal life is the love of Mary!

Well, I do very much~my earthly mother's name was Mary, yet loving her is truly no sign of eternal life. Btw, she could out cuss any sailor....... Which is sad to say, but true. At the end of her life, she changed (to what degree, I do not know since I lived in a different state) once she saw her son living for God.

But, loving God's children, all of them, is truly a sign of eternal life.

1st John 5:1​

“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.”

 

[donadams]

Where do we find that presented in the NT word of God?

Where does it say it must be in the NT to be true?

Mary is the sigh of “our salvation”!

Thks

 

[donadams]

How would that be?


Hi don, nice to see you again.

Thanks hope you’re well!

Happy new year everyone!

 

[donadams]

Mary is the mother of “our salvation”! Lk 2:30

Thanks

 

[Eleanor]

Where does it say it must be in the NT to be true?

Mary is the sigh of “our salvation”!

Thks

How do you know it is God's truth if it is not in his word written?

So I can believe in salvation for all even though God's word written does not present it?

You do realize that is a recipe for untruth and deceit, right?

The Bereans didn't take even the word of Paul, the apostle caught up into heaven, without checking it against God's word written.

And that is the pattern/rule for the church when it comes to what is God's truth.

As Jesus made clear, the traditions of men are just that, and nothing more.

 

[Arial]

Where does it say it must be in the NT to be true?

Mary is the sigh of “our salvation”!

Thks

Where does it say anywhere in the Bible that Mary is our salvation?

 

[Arial]

Mary is the mother of “our salvation”! Lk 2:30

Thanks

Luke 2


25 Now there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon, and this man was righteous and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ. 27 And he came in the Spirit into the temple, and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the Law, 28 he took him up in his arms and blessed God and said,

29 “Lord, now you are letting your servant[e] depart in peace,
according to your word;
30 for my eyes have seen your salvation
31 that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples,
32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles,
and for glory to your people Israel.”

Mary is the human mother of our Savior.

 

[donadams]

How do you know it is God's truth if it is not in his word written?

So I can believe in salvation for all even though God's word written does not present it?

You do realize that is a recipe for untruth and deceit, right?

The Bereans didn't take even the word of Paul, the apostle caught up into heaven, without checking it against God's word written.

And that is the pattern/rule for the church when it comes to what is God's truth.

As Jesus made clear, the traditions of men are just that, and nothing more.

Are you questioning every word that Christ spoke in person to the apostles? His words are eternal!

Salvation is available to all not all will be saved!

Actually scripture says they believed paul

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

The church is commanded to teach publicly orally matt 28:19

 

[donadams]

Where does it say anywhere in the Bible that Mary is our salvation?

I did not say Mary is “our salvation” Christ is lk 2:30

Mary is the sign of “our salvation”!

 

[donadams]

Luke 2


25 Now there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon, and this man was righteous and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ. 27 And he came in the Spirit into the temple, and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the Law, 28 he took him up in his arms and blessed God and said,

29 “Lord, now you are letting your servant[e] depart in peace,
according to your word;
30 for my eyes have seen your salvation
31 that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples,
32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles,
and for glory to your people Israel.”

Mary is the human mother of our Savior.

You right!

But vs 30 say Jesus is “our salvation”!

 

[Eleanor]

Are you questioning every word that Christ spoke in person to the apostles? His words are eternal!

Are you saying we have the words Christ spoke in person to the apostles apart from the Scriptures?

Salvation is available to all not all will be saved!

Salvation is only for those who believe in Jesus Christ and his atoning work for the remission of their sin.
It is not available to those who do not.

Actually scripture says they believed paul
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Yes, the Bereans searched the Scriptures daily to know whether Paul's teaching was true.
They believed him because he was in agreement with the word of God written (Scripture).

The church is commanded to teach publicly orally matt 28:19

Yes, to most the Scriptures need to be explained.

 

[Arial]

You right!

But vs 30 say Jesus is “our salvation”!

Well you say Mary is. This OP is about predestination, not RCC dogma and tradition. Put it on the Catholic board!!

 

[Arial]

I did not say Mary is “our salvation” Christ is lk 2:30

Mary is the sign of “our salvation”!

She isn't. SCRIPTURE never says she is. Put it on the Catholic board. This OP is about predestination. And it is on the apologetics board, so responses should contain apologetics. In layman's terms, "What I believe and why I believe it" supported by scripture, articulated and with at least a modicum of exegesis.

 

[JIM]

@donadams
is it possible for the "Elect" to not be saved?

No, because it is those whom God foreknows will hear, believe, repent and be baptized in the name Jesus Christ, thus being born again, i.e., saved, that He chooses from before creation.

 

[makesends]

You right!

But vs 30 say Jesus is “our salvation”!

You keep adding what looks to you like two and two to come up with what you think is four. It's bad logic to say that two tangerines and two apples makes four apples.

 

[donadams]

No, because it is those whom God foreknows will hear, believe, repent and be baptized in the name Jesus Christ, thus being born again, i.e., saved, that He chooses from before creation.

No free will?
Baptism needs to be in the form of Matt 28:19
And just cos were born again “justified” in baptism does not make is saved. Mk 13:13 matt 24:13

Thks

 

[donadams]

You keep adding what looks to you like two and two to come up with what you think is four. It's bad logic to say that two tangerines and two apples makes four apples.

Is Jesus “our salvation” yes or no?

God is the “source and first cause,” of all good, this does not exclude another immediate cause that is chosen and authorized by God to accomplish His will & purpose!

Examples:

Noah:
Moses:
Joshua:

(Primary cause)

God is the source, first, & remote cause of the salvation of the family of Noah from the flood!

(Secondary cause)

Noah is the “immediate” cause of the salvation of the family of Noah from the flood!

Noah believed God:
Noah consented to God will & plan of salvation:
Noah puts his faith into action by obedience to God & building the ark:


(Primary cause)

God is the source, first, & remote cause of the salvation of the children of Israel from Egypt!

(Secondary cause)

Moses is the immediate cause of the salvation of the of the children of Israel from Egypt!

Moses puts his faith into action by obedience to God, going back to Egypt and delivering the children of Israel from bondage.


(Primary cause)

God is the source, first, & remote cause of the children of Israel entering the promised land!

(Secondary cause)

Joshua is the immediate cause of the children of Israel entering the promised land!

Joshua puts his faith into action by obedience to God, and leading the children of Israel into the promised land.


These are “type and figures of our salvation!”



Mary & The great affair of “our salvation!”


(Primary cause)

God is the source, first, & remote cause of “our salvation!”

(Secondary cause)

Mary is the immediate cause of “our salvation!”

Mary found grace with God. Lk 1:30

Mary believed God. Lk 1:45

Mary put her faith into action by obedience to God by consenting to “our salvation.”

Mary consented to “our salvation.” Lk 1:38

And By the conception of the Holy Spirit!

Mary is the fruitful virgin who conceived by the power of the most high. Matt 1:

And by bearing in Her sacred womb “our salvation.”

And by giving birth to “our salvation.”

Mary gave birth to “our salvation.”


You would never say: “Noah had zero to do with the salvation of his family from the flood!” Or that “Moses had zero to do with the salvation of children of Israel from bondage in Egypt,” or that Joshua has zero to do with the children of Israel entering the promised land.”

Thks

 

[Mr GLee]

Is Jesus “our salvation” yes or no?

God is the “source and first cause,” of all good, this does not exclude another immediate cause that is chosen and authorized by God to accomplish His will & purpose!

Salvation. . Limbo for younger sinners or Purgatory for the more mature sinner??

.Jesus the first born again of many sons of God

Christ working in the Son of man (flesh) Jesus born again as the Son of God . Marvel not

2 Corinthians 5:16Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we "him" no more.

One promised demonstration of the Father working in the son of man Jesus is all that was offered .

 

[makesends]

Is Jesus “our salvation” yes or no?

God is the “source and first cause,” of all good, this does not exclude another immediate cause that is chosen and authorized by God to accomplish His will & purpose!

Examples:

Noah:
Moses:
Joshua:

(Primary cause)

God is the source, first, & remote cause of the salvation of the family of Noah from the flood!

(Secondary cause)

Noah is the “immediate” cause of the salvation of the family of Noah from the flood!

Noah believed God:
Noah consented to God will & plan of salvation:
Noah puts his faith into action by obedience to God & building the ark:


(Primary cause)

God is the source, first, & remote cause of the salvation of the children of Israel from Egypt!

(Secondary cause)

Moses is the immediate cause of the salvation of the of the children of Israel from Egypt!

Moses puts his faith into action by obedience to God, going back to Egypt and delivering the children of Israel from bondage.


(Primary cause)

God is the source, first, & remote cause of the children of Israel entering the promised land!

(Secondary cause)

Joshua is the immediate cause of the children of Israel entering the promised land!

Joshua puts his faith into action by obedience to God, and leading the children of Israel into the promised land.


These are “type and figures of our salvation!”



Mary & The great affair of “our salvation!”


(Primary cause)

God is the source, first, & remote cause of “our salvation!”

(Secondary cause)

Mary is the immediate cause of “our salvation!”

Mary found grace with God. Lk 1:30

Mary believed God. Lk 1:45

Mary put her faith into action by obedience to God by consenting to “our salvation.”

Mary consented to “our salvation.” Lk 1:38

And By the conception of the Holy Spirit!

Mary is the fruitful virgin who conceived by the power of the most high. Matt 1:

And by bearing in Her sacred womb “our salvation.”

And by giving birth to “our salvation.”

Mary gave birth to “our salvation.”


You would never say: “Noah had zero to do with the salvation of his family from the flood!” Or that “Moses had zero to do with the salvation of children of Israel from bondage in Egypt,” or that Joshua has zero to do with the children of Israel entering the promised land.”

Thks

It is inane to make scripture fit your thesis. Sorry, but this doesn't wash.

Just to start with, Mary being the mother of Jesus has nothing to do with her being honored as co-redemptrix and so on. She was ordinary people like the rest of us, needing redemption herself. No need to go to proving that she is somehow divine or even semi-divine, just because she was chosen by God for his particular purposes. (Not to mention that no such thing has been proven by those logical leaps). She was blessed by it, as would any woman be who would have been chosen for that if not Mary. I can hardly wait til whatever RCC that are truly saved will be told when they meet her in Heaven. All praise to God —none to the "blessed virgin".