Why is the Word of God not so Sharp on Forums?

[Carbon]

Have you seen this?

Thread 'R.C. Sproul on N.T. Wright'

Apr 17, 2025

• Carbon
• Replies: 12
• Forum: Youtube/Favorite Videos/Music.

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Darn, couldn't get the link, without the video.

 

[Carbon]

Since he an I were both given a "time out" for discussing it (a short ban), PSA is clearly an ESSENTIAL DOCTRINE here at CCC, so I will not be discussing the many alternative views of atonement that both predated it and have been advanced since it on CCC in the future.

I will be taking a sabbatical for our mutual well being and Christian witness.

Keep in mind what N. T. Wright says and teaches; he says: "to teach that God the Father chose Jesus as a sacrifice for our sins is not Christianity, but paganism."

 

[Carbon]

There really is no legitimate argument against PSA to be found in the Scriptures.

To deny a penal substitutionary atonement, completely undoes any actual atonement or propitiation accomplished by Christ. His sacrifice would be no more effective to cleanse one of sin than the sacrifice of bulls and rams. It isn't enough for God to simply declare that if Jesus gave his life then he would pardon the sins of all who believe in him. Which is what we have when we remove the actual work of substitution and propitiation that Jesus did.

Yes, and everything points Godward. It is He that needed to be atoned, not us.
Consider the fundamental character of the priesthood, it clearly points in that direction. The same with the general idea of the sacrifices. They clearly have an objective reference. All sacrifices are clearly brought to God to atone for sin, not to men. And so much more

 

[Hazelelponi]

Since he an I were both given a "time out" for discussing it (a short ban), PSA is clearly an ESSENTIAL DOCTRINE here at CCC, so I will not be discussing the many alternative views of atonement that both predated it and have been advanced since it on CCC in the future.

I will be taking a sabbatical for our mutual well being and Christian witness.

Oh you were not alone!

I was just able to get back on this morning and I had to enlist my husbands assistance to do it.

You got back far quicker than myself... and I believe in PSA! You weren't in trouble.

 

[Eleanor]

Keep in mind what N. T. Wright says and teaches; he says: "to teach that God the Father chose Jesus as a sacrifice for our sins is not Christianity, but paganism."

Then he completely misunderstands Leviticus, the seedbed of NT theology.

 

[Dave]

I was able to log on, but was unable to post. This doesn't leave a lot of options for what happened.


THAT DON"T MAKE NO SENSE!!!!!




The thought did cross my mind that I was banned, though I couldn't think of anything that I did that would be worthy of banning. Maybe flogging, time out, or no peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for a week. I figured that I would give it a day before I jumped to conclusions. Gopher Everett? I'm gonna R.U.N.N O.F.T.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I was able to log on, but was unable to post. This doesn't leave a lot of options for what happened.


THAT DON"T MAKE NO SENSE!!!!!

View attachment 1096


The thought did cross my mind that I was banned, though I couldn't think of anything that I did that would be worthy of banning. Maybe flogging, time out, or no peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for a week. I figured that I would give it a day before I jumped to conclusions. Gopher Everett? I'm gonna R.U.N.N O.F.T.

Your posting now!

 

[Dave]

@Hazelelponi ​

​

Before I answer, are you from the bank?​

 

[Carbon]

Then he completely misunderstands Leviticus, the seedbed of NT theology.

Yes he does

 

[Hazelelponi]

..

 

[prism]

But would you submit to their Conscience when around them? If not, it's too important; and your Verses should work on them

In indifferent matter, probably yes, for conscience' sake, but when their weak conscience turns the Gospel message into law (example: If you continue with those card games, you will burn in hell.), then it's a definite no-no.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Personally, I don't think Soteriology is a Salvific issue for Evangelicals;

Soteriology, the doctrine of salvation, is not an abstract theological category—it is the matter of life and death, of heaven and hell. These are not peripheral discussions; they concern the soul’s eternal state and the true knowledge of the One who saves.

From my earliest memory, I believed in God. There was never a day I doubted His existence. I also believed in Jesus: that He was born of a virgin, that He lived, and that He was indeed, the Messiah of Christians. These truths were as settled in my mind as gravity or the rising sun. But belief in certain facts does not equate to salvation.

My understanding of salvation—my soteriology—was severely malformed. I was a follower of Islam where I earnestly tried to be a good Muslim, though ironically, all the while many professing Christians affirmed me in this belief. I lost count of how many times I heard, "We all worship the same God." It was said so often and so casually that it lost all weight—but not its danger.

It wasn’t until the day I truly believed in the Lord Jesus Christ—believed unto salvation, not merely assent to a doctrine—that everything changed. When I was drawn by grace to confess Christ as Lord and trust in His finished work, when I began to worship the Triune God, the God who has revealed Himself as Father, Son, and Spirit—I crossed over from death to life. My faith was no longer wrongly defined, but it was tethered to truth, to Scripture, to Christ.

And this is when things turned upside down.

Ironically, it was then, as a regenerate believer, that I began to be accused by some Christians of worshiping a "different God"—not because I denied the Trinity or Scripture, but because I clung to the God of Scripture with unflinching loyalty. It was bewildering. I had left Islam, embraced Christ, submitted to Scripture, and still found myself alienated.

I began to wonder if I had lost my mind. Was I delusional? Had trauma broken me so profoundly that I had invented this faith? But I couldn’t stop believing. I couldn’t unsee the Christ who had saved me. I was holding onto this God with a trembling hand, but He was holding me with an unshakable grip.

Clarity came not from contemporary voices, but from saints of old—men long dead, but who knew this God as I did. They spoke my language. Their theology was my theology. Their Christ, my Christ. And through them—and through the man who became my husband—I realized I wasn’t insane. I was simply born again.

In those early days, I was caught in a crossfire. Muslims called my faith a deception of shaytan. Christians accused me of idolatry for worshiping the very God they confessed. But I held fast—not because of strength in myself, but because the Spirit bore witness with my spirit that I was a child of God.

My faith took shape. It conformed to Scripture. It conformed to Christ. It settled into this conviction: those who love my God are my brethren, and no one else is. And those who love Him will, in turn, love His people—for He dwells in us.

As Jude exhorts us, “Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 1:3). That is the faith I now proclaim. The faith of the prophets, the apostles, and the reformers. The faith of Scripture. The faith that saves.

So I waited—for my brothers in the faith. Though many have entered their rest, not all are gone. A faithful remnant yet remains—men and women who love the truth, not for its controversy, but for its Christ. They care deeply for the faith once for all delivered to the saints, not as a matter of ideology, but because it is the treasure of their hearts—the doctrine that exalts the glory of God and magnifies the grace of Christ. It is not a fight for power, but a fellowship in love—a love shaped by truth, and a truth defined by love.

 

[ReverendRV]

And this is when things turned upside down.

Ironically, it was then, as a regenerate believer, that I began to be accused by some Christians of worshiping a "different God"—not because I denied the Trinity or Scripture, but because I clung to the God of Scripture with unflinching loyalty. It was bewildering. I had left Islam, embraced Christ, submitted to Scripture, and still found myself alienated.

Forgive me Sister, if I've ever made you feel like you describe here; since we squabble about Soteriology. In one sense, there's a General Soteriology we All agree upon; the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Then there's the fine tuned Soteriology that we Evangelicals Debate about; IE Calvinism, Arminianism and Provisionism...

It's a good thing that our Squabbling didn't uproot you. This is a good reminder for us to be careful while Weeding; we might have uprooted you. Even though Calvinism is True, we're still told not to Weed, lest we get the wrong people...

 

[Hazelelponi]

Forgive me Sister, if I've ever made you feel like you describe here; since we squabble about Soteriology. In one sense, there's a General Soteriology we All agree upon; the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Then there's the fine tuned Soteriology that we Evangelicals Debate about; IE Calvinism, Arminianism and Provisionism...

It's a good thing that our Squabbling didn't uproot you. This is a good reminder for us to be careful while Weeding; we might have uprooted you. Even though Calvinism is True, we're still told not to Weed, lest we get the wrong people...

And goodness no, our little squabbling if it was even that was nothing brother... We do need to test what we believe, I don't believe in unreasoned faith...

The reason for that you will probably have noticed when reading my neighbors thread that I posted... Because I see scriptures differently and process everything more visually I think, I do hold on to the reason aspect a little harder. Grounded reason is the balance I need.

Others need what I have maybe .. who knows? Even if it is just to annoy .. lol.

Though, I do hope that what I said contributes even just to remind. What you said about weeding is correct, I do believe God's people will persevere, but I would never want to be a cause for anothers stumbling - for real.

Luke 17:1 states, "It is impossible but that offenses will come, but woe to him through whom they come!"

 

[ReverendRV]

And goodness no, our little squabbling if it was even that was nothing brother... We do need to test what we believe, I don't believe in unreasoned faith...

The reason for that you will probably have noticed when reading my neighbors thread that I posted... Because I see scriptures differently and process everything more visually I think, I do hold on to the reason aspect a little harder. Grounded reason is the balance I need.

Others need what I have maybe .. who knows? Even if it is just to annoy .. lol.

Though, I do hope that what I said contributes even just to remind. What you said about weeding is correct, I do believe God's people will persevere, but I would never want to be a cause for anothers stumbling - for real.

Luke 17:1 states, "It is impossible but that offenses will come, but woe to him through whom they come!"

Awesome...

I think everyone (thinks?) , they are closest to being right

 

[Hazelelponi]

...

 

[Eleanor]

Awesome...

I think everyone (thinks?) , they are closest to being right

She is indeed awesome. . .