Jesus was never prayed to once in the Bible

[Fred]

Jesus only taught his disciples to pray to the Father. Not to pray to himself or anyone else. If the disciples were to suddenly pray to Jesus that would be sacrilege. It never happened in the Bible.

Jesus prescribed praying to the Father only:

Matt 6
6But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
9So then, this is how you should pray:
‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be Your name.

You haven't supplied The List as to whom you communicate with besides God in heaven.
This dilemma of yours is not going away.

If you forget, don't worry because you can count on me to remind you.

 

[Runningman]

You haven't supplied The List as to whom you communicate with besides God in heaven.
This dilemma of yours is not going away.

If you forget, don't worry because you can count on me to remind you.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I have never said I am going to supply a list of any sort.

 

[Runningman]

There is nothing in post 1 that agrees with your outlandish assertion.

All of it supports the Bible's thesis that Jesus was never prayed to. Please quote one sentence where the word "praying" is used in conjunction with communicating to Jesus. Thank you.

 

[Fred]

I have no idea what you're talking about. I have never said I am going to supply a list of any sort.

Therefore your position does not accord with the facts.
Hiding makes it worse, but hey, go ahead.

 

[Runningman]

Therefore your position does not accord with the facts.
Hiding makes it worse, but hey, go ahead.

Your position seems to be to follow me around to various threads commanding me to provide a list that I didn't offer to provide. That says absolutely nothing about me.

 

[Fred]

Your position seems to be to follow me around to various threads commanding me to provide a list that I didn't offer to provide. That says absolutely nothing about me.

You affirmed that your communication with others in heaven besides God is great.

I want to know who is on this list of who you communicate with.

The hole you are digging for yourself is getting deeper.

This thread you started is a disaster for you. I'm glad I don't have to defend what you believe.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Jesus was never prayed to in the Bible, never instructed anyone to pray to himself, and isn't God. Jesus taught all of his disciples to pray only to God the Father (Matt 6:6,9)

YHWH knows the hearts of all:

1 Kings 8​

39be heard by You[YHWH] from heaven, Your dwelling place. And may You forgive and act, and repay each man according to all his ways, since You know his heart—for You alone know the hearts of all men—​

Jesus does not know the hearts of all:

Revelation 2​

23Then I will strike her children dead, and all the churches will know that I am the One who searches minds and hearts, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.​

Jesus isn't YHWH:

Psalm 110​

1The LORD[YHWH] said to my Lord:[Jesus]​

“Sit at My right hand​

until I make Your enemies​

a footstool for Your feet.”​

Jesus was never prayed to:

Acts 1​

24And they prayed, “Lord,[YHWH] You know everyone’s heart..."​

Therefore Jesus isn't God and he denied it:

Mark 10​

18“Why do you call me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.​

He wasn't glorified at the time while He was earth. But now that He is glorified He is God without any restriction and rules heaven, earth, and man as well as time and eternity. The Trinity is not fully understood by unconverted men and even converted people while on this earth as "new man" and born again still have much difficulty understanding the Trinity of God. Here's an example. Try to understand this passage of Scripture:

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
And the government shall be upon his shoulder:
And his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God,
The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6.

This is a prophecy of Israel's Messiah who was to be born into the human world as a human and yet due to His hupostasis of being both God and man in His Person the prophecy declares a Child is [to be] born who is also a Son. As you can see this is a human child and also according to Isaiah is also {al]mighty God and Everlasting FATHER.
Well, how can that be? How can a son [of God] be [Al]mighty God (Jehovah/Yahweh/Adonai, etc.), and also be Everlasting Father [God]? And since you've declared prayers are to be offered to God the Father - and I agree - the human Child born into the human 'family' is also [Al]mighty God and God the Father??
Go, figure that out if you can.
But if as you say - and I agree - our prayers are to be offered to the Father (God) and in doing so the Child born is identified as Father, then offering prayers to the Child born and Son is the same as offering prayers to the Father which Isaiah says He is.

 

[Runningman]

You affirmed that your communication with others in heaven besides God is great.

I want to know who is on this list of who you communicate with.

The hole you are digging for yourself is getting deeper.

This thread you started is a disaster for you. I'm glad I don't have to defend what you believe.

This thread is easy for me. It's great that the Bible demonstrates that the only one Jesus taught his disciples to pray to is the Father and that there are literally zero examples of Jesus being prayed to in the Bible. I love this thread and I'll keep it alive for as long as possible until everyone sees it.

 

[Fred]

Praying to Jesus

Dodging will simply prolong your agony.

You affirmed that your communication with others in heaven besides God is great.
I want to know who is on this list of who you communicate with.

 

[Runningman]

Dodging will simply prolong your agony.

You affirmed that your communication with others in heaven besides God is great.
I want to know who is on this list of who you communicate with.

Matt 6:6,9 where Jesus prescribed prayer to only the Father isn't going anywhere. Do you agree with it?

Therefore it follows that Acts 1:24 is about prayer to the Father.

 

[Fred]

Matt 6:6,9 where Jesus prescribed prayer to only the Father isn't going anywhere. Do you agree with it?

Therefore it follows that Acts 1:24 is about prayer to the Father.

Evasion will not work.

 

[Runningman]

He wasn't glorified at the time while He was earth. But now that He is glorified He is God without any restriction and rules heaven, earth, and man as well as time and eternity. The Trinity is not fully understood by unconverted men and even converted people while on this earth as "new man" and born again still have much difficulty understanding the Trinity of God. Here's an example.

The trinity doctrine isn't mentioned or described in the Bible in the same way the Athanasian Creed describes it, therefore it isn't scripture. Trinitarians ultimately will confess in defeat that the trinity doctrine is indeed a mystery.

Try to understand this passage of Scripture:

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
And the government shall be upon his shoulder:
And his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God,
The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6.

I understand it. The part that says "his name will be called..." premises what follows. The Son was never called those things. There is a better translation for this, but we won't go into that because I've seen translations and semantics get debated forever. It's better to stick with the context.

The Son was never called the Father. Actually, Trinitarians strongly reject that the Son is himself the Father. Not only does it not make sense for a begotten son to be his own father, but the Son directly denied that he is the Father.

Jesus, on earth, said call no one on earth their father. The Father, in heaven, is their one Father. That isn't Jesus. Jesus denied being God here.

Matt 23​

9And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.​

This is a prophecy of Israel's Messiah who was to be born into the human world as a human and yet due to His hupostasis of being both God and man

The bit about being "god and man" isn't scripture. That would be interpretation and opinion, but not something said in the Bible. The Bible says the only true God is the Father many times. John 17:1-3 is probably the best example. There is also 1 Thessalonians 1:9,10, Ephesians 4:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 John 5:20, Jeremiah 10:10.

in His Person the prophecy declares a Child is [to be] born who is also a Son. As you can see this is a human child and also according to Isaiah is also {al]mighty God and Everlasting FATHER.

Isaiah actually didn't say that is who Jesus is. Isaiah said he would be called those things. Jesus wasn't ever called those things. The translation isn't right and Trinitarians actually disagree the Son is the Father.

Well, how can that be? How can a son [of God] be [Al]mighty God (Jehovah/Yahweh/Adonai, etc.), and also be Everlasting Father [God]? And since you've declared prayers are to be offered to God the Father - and I agree - the human Child born into the human 'family' is also [Al]mighty God and God the Father??
Go, figure that out if you can.
But if as you say - and I agree - our prayers are to be offered to the Father (God) and in doing so the Child born is identified as Father, then offering prayers to the Child born and Son is the same as offering prayers to the Father which Isaiah says He is.

We will have to agree that, in the way you explain it, it will remain a mystery, but I suggest you consider some of the points I showed you.

 

[fastfredy0]

Evasion will not work.

We're wasting our time in this thread ... time to move on.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The trinity doctrine isn't mentioned or described in the Bible in the same way the Athanasian Creed describes it, therefore it isn't scripture. Trinitarians ultimately will confess in defeat that the trinity doctrine is indeed a mystery.

Considered.
Now responding.

I understand it. The part that says "his name will be called..." premises what follows. The Son was never called those things. There is a better translation for this, but we won't go into that because I've seen translations and semantics get debated forever. It's better to stick with the context.

We are still on this side of Glory. Our understanding of God is only through what He's revealed in His Word. But when we get to glory, we just might be surprised.

The Son was never called the Father. Actually, Trinitarians strongly reject that the Son is himself the Father. Not only does it not make sense for a begotten son to be his own father, but the Son directly denied that he is the Father.

Yes. I understand Sabellianism and Modalism. I am not advocating either. I am merely pointing out that although still on this side of Glory - whether He is called or otherwise - our understanding of the Trinity of God will be fallen short of the truthful reality of God Himself.

Jesus, on earth, said call no one on earth their father. The Father, in heaven, is their one Father. That isn't Jesus. Jesus denied being God here.

Matt 23​

9And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.​

I understand what you're saying. But again, when we get to glory our understanding of God will only deepen.

The bit about being "god and man" isn't scripture. That would be interpretation and opinion, but not something said in the Bible. The Bible says the only true God is the Father many times. John 17:1-3 is probably the best example. There is also 1 Thessalonians 1:9,10, Ephesians 4:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 John 5:20, Jeremiah 10:10.

Of course, we don't find a statement of "God-man. We can only take what is written in Scripture for all our understanding and although it may not specifically say "God-man" the concept is there.

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Gen. 3:15.

Even the Jews understood this as describing the "God-man."

He is man and will suffer death [heel].
He is God to destroy the serpents' seed.

Isaiah actually didn't say that is who Jesus is. Isaiah said he would be called those things. Jesus wasn't ever called those things. The translation isn't right and Trinitarians actually disagree the Son is the Father.

Not yet. If God were to manifest Himself fully, we would die. Thus, God manifests Himself in a "down payment" of the Holy Spirit and by this we shall live, move about, and have our being.

We will have to agree that, in the way you explain it, it will remain a mystery, but I suggest you consider some of the points I showed you.

I have. But no one will be able to comprehend the Seven Spirits of God - even when we get to glory. I think God will not manifest Himself fully without the veil of His Son.

 

[grace2]

Jesus taught all of his followers that when they pray to pray to the Father. Matt 6:6,9. There is never a point where the word "prayer" is used in associating with communicating with Jesus is all of scripture.

Furthermore, there are no examples of Jesus knowing the hearts of all. There is no proof Jesus is YHWH. There is no proof Jesus is God.

They cannot prove any of those becasue there is no word from Jesus' testimony which is crucial for salvation. OTO, There is proof they are wrong. But they never admit it.

 

[grace2]

We're wasting our time in this thread ... time to move on.

All you can do is to muddy the facts.

 

[CrowCross]

Revelation 2:23 doesn't say Jesus knows the hearts of all. On the other hand, YHWH does know the hearts of all. Jesus isn't YHWH. Jesus isn't God. He was never prayed to in the Bible. The Bible proves this. Read the OP again.

Matt 9:24 But Jesus knew what they were thinking and said, “Why do you harbor evil in your hearts?

 

[grace2]

Matt 9:24 But Jesus knew what they were thinking and said, “Why do you harbor evil in your hearts?

Is it not evil to disregard His word?

that is one of the grave sins.

Jesus was sent by His Father to teach us how to love God and love one another.

And was anointed to be His followers' Lord by His Father.

You better respect it.

 

[CrowCross]

Does the fact that this model prayer addresses the Father and not the Son mean that we are never to address the Son (or the Spirit) in prayer? No. ref

Calling on the name of Jesus is prayer.
1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,
2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

Other examples of prayers to Jesus​

There are other examples of appropriate prayers to Jesus in the New Testament.10Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my Spirit” (Acts 7:59). At Paul’s conversion, he prayed to Jesus: “Lord, what wilt thou have me do?” (Acts 9:6). Ananias conversed with Jesus when Jesus spoke to him in a vision (Acts 9:10–14). And the very last prayer in the New Testament is addressed to Jesus by the Apostle John: “Even so come, Lord Jesus!” (Revelation 22:20). If it were wrong to petition Christ, John the inspired writer may have said, “Father, may the Son come.” But instead he gave us these words to also cry out to Jesus: “Even so, come!”

This is only a small sample from my ref.

 

[grace2]

Does the fact that this model prayer addresses the Father and not the Son mean that we are never to address the Son (or the Spirit) in prayer? No. ref

Calling on the name of Jesus is prayer.
1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,
2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

Other examples of prayers to Jesus​

There are other examples of appropriate prayers to Jesus in the New Testament.10Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my Spirit” (Acts 7:59). At Paul’s conversion, he prayed to Jesus: “Lord, what wilt thou have me do?” (Acts 9:6). Ananias conversed with Jesus when Jesus spoke to him in a vision (Acts 9:10–14). And the very last prayer in the New Testament is addressed to Jesus by the Apostle John: “Even so come, Lord Jesus!” (Revelation 22:20). If it were wrong to petition Christ, John the inspired writer may have said, “Father, may the Son come.” But instead he gave us these words to also cry out to Jesus: “Even so, come!”

This is only a small sample from my ref.

Those do not justify dismissing Jesus' word.

It is just muddying the facts.