Jesus teaches that regeneration precedes faith

[brightfame52]

How does one become “born again”? Thanks

By the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Blessed [gratefully praised and adored] be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant and boundless mercy has caused us to be born again [that is, to be reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose] to an ever-living hope and confident assurance through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

 

[JIM]

By the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Blessed [gratefully praised and adored] be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant and boundless mercy has caused us to be born again [that is, to be reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose] to an ever-living hope and confident assurance through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

An interesting point to be made concerning that verse is that Peter does not use the Greek word meaning born from above; rather he uses the Greek word meaning simply "beget again".

 

[ChristB4us]

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. John 6:63, 65

"All the Father gives me will come to me..." - John 6:37

The words "grant" (v 65) and "give" (v 37) are the same Greek word.


Jesus is teaching, NO ONE can come to faith in him unless the Father grants it, and ALL whom He grants will come ... and that by the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. This very plain talk spoken in the context of a discussion on faith, leaves no room whatsoever for a synergistic, prevenient grace.

I am trying to ascertain how you connect the OP to the title of this thread "Jesus teaches that regeneration precedes faith".

Granting does not mean regeneration precedes faith. Granting can be seen as drawing them unto the Son John 6:44 to reveal His Son to them Matthew 11:25-27 so by that granting is how they can believe in Him to be saved thus that faith comes by the hearing of the word of God.

Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

And this also comes by hearing the word preached.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

So if faith comes by hearing the word of God and the Holy Ghost comes on all who heard the word, and we know that faith is a fruit of the Spirit, how can we say that regeneration precedes faith when faith & regeneration happens at the same time when receiving the Holy Spirit at the hearing of the gospel?

@David1701 & @JIM & @brightfame52

 

[brightfame52]

An interesting point to be made concerning that verse is that Peter does not use the Greek word meaning born from above; rather he uses the Greek word meaning simply "beget again".

It doesnt matter.

 

[justbyfaith]

Sorry, but Drawing is the New Birth.

Nope.

Because all are drawn (John 12:32).

In teaching that therefore, you are teaching Universalism (heresy).

 

[justbyfaith]

We do enter into the Grace we already stood in by Faith, after we are born again and given faith

We were once not in grace; and we entered into (gained access to) grace through the door using the key of faith...Romans 5:2.

 

[justbyfaith]

How does one become “born again”? Thanks

Romans 10:9-13 tells you the answer.

If that should fail, try Acts 2:38-39.

 

[brightfame52]

Nope.

Because all are drawn (John 12:32).

In teaching that therefore, you are teaching Universalism (heresy).

Yes it is, and the all that are drawn are the elect, so its still limited atonement, universalism is heresy as well as arminainism that teaches Christ died for every single individual.

 

[brightfame52]

We were once not in grace; and we entered into (gained access to) grace through the door using the key of faith...Romans 5:2.

Those Christ died for are always under grace, they are born under grace, then they are born again, given faith to access the grace they have always been under. God gave them Grace in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

 

[FutureAndAHope]

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. John 6:63, 65

"All the Father gives me will come to me..." - John 6:37

The words "grant" (v 65) and "give" (v 37) are the same Greek word.


Jesus is teaching, NO ONE can come to faith in him unless the Father grants it, and ALL whom He grants will come ... and that by the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. This very plain talk spoken in the context of a discussion on faith, leaves no room whatsoever for a synergistic, prevenient grace.

I have used this scripture elsewhere on this forum, so it is probably not news to anyone. The passage however IS talking about how one receives the Holy Spirit. There is a specific order to receiving God's Holy Spirit. It involves a step of obedience on our part. One must receive Jesus' words.

John 14:21-24 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him." Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, "Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?" Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.

1. We receive God's words (which are Spirit and Life), including God's word to have faith in Jesus atoning sacrifice
2. If we obey, God will love us, and THEN manifest himself to us (we can not come to God but He wills)
3. If we are disobedient God does not come to us

This two-way path is seen in Jesus's words:

John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

 

[brightfame52]

I have used this scripture elsewhere on this forum, so it is probably not news to anyone. The passage however IS talking about how one receives the Holy Spirit. There is a specific order to receiving God's Holy Spirit. It involves a step of obedience on our part. One must receive Jesus' words.

John 14:21-24 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him." Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, "Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?" Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.

1. We receive God's words (which are Spirit and Life), including God's word to have faith in Jesus atoning sacrifice
2. If we obey, God will love us, and THEN manifest himself to us (we can not come to God but He wills)
3. If we are disobedient God does not come to us

This two-way path is seen in Jesus's words:

John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

The Holy Spirit gives, effects obedience 1 Pet 1:2,22

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

So your statement:

There is a specific order to receiving God's Holy Spirit. It involves a step of obedience on our part.

Is error. Regeneration is prior to and unto Gospel Obedience !

 

[JIM]

So your statement:

"There is a specific order to receiving God's Holy Spirit. It involves a step of obedience on our part."

Is error. Regeneration is prior to and unto Gospel Obedience !

What you posted doesn't actually says that.

 

[brightfame52]

What you posted doesn't actually says that.

Yes it does,to me!

 

[JIM]

Yes it does,to me!

And that is the problem with so much of what is presented in forums such as this one. Too many times what the Bible says and what it might say to a particular individual are not the same. Obviously we should heed one and reject the other as authentic. I'll let you decide which is which.

 

[brightfame52]

And that is the problem with so much of what is presented in forums such as this one. Too many times what the Bible says and what it might say to a particular individual are not the same. Obviously we should heed one and reject the other as authentic. I'll let you decide which is which.

You have a great problem if it's the truth.

 

[JIM]

You have a great problem if it's the truth.

But it almost never is the truth which is one reason why there are so many divisions within Christendom.

The important thing that we all must always keep in mind is that everything except a direct quotation from Scripture is personal interpretation, i.e., commentary. And even that is subject to the nuances of the various interpreter groups that produce the different translations.

In answering any question concerning any topic in the Bible, the first thing that should be looked for is "What does the Bible say?" Thus in answer to the question in the opening post, "Jesus teaches that regeneration precedes faith", the first thing that should be noted is that Jesus made no such statement.

 

[Mr GLee]

The Holy Spirit gives, effects obedience 1 Pet 1:2,22

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

So your statement:



Is error. Regeneration is prior to and unto Gospel Obedience !

Where did the prior power come from to both hear the will and then given power to believe in a God not seen .Again where did it come from The imagination of a human. heart? Let your conscience be your guide?

Jesus the Son of man did the will of the Father with delight . . .some murmur what about me??? the key is borth

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

 

[brightfame52]

But it almost never is the truth which is one reason why there are so many divisions within Christendom.

The important thing that we all must always keep in mind is that everything except a direct quotation from Scripture is personal interpretation, i.e., commentary. And even that is subject to the nuances of the various interpreter groups that produce the different translations.

In answering any question concerning any topic in the Bible, the first thing that should be looked for is "What does the Bible say?" Thus in answer to the question in the opening post, "Jesus teaches that regeneration precedes faith", the first thing that should be noted is that Jesus made no such statement.

But it is the Truth, I believe you have a problem but dont know it

 

[brightfame52]

Where did the prior power come from to both hear the will and then given power to believe in a God not seen .Again where did it come from The imagination of a human. heart? Let your conscience be your guide?

Jesus the Son of man did the will of the Father with delight . . .some murmur what about me??? the key is borth

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Again the Holy Spirit brings about obedience and hearing

 

[JIM]

But it is the Truth, I believe you have a problem but dont know it

Jesus made no such statement. More importantly, no other author of the Scriptures has ever made such a statement either. That "Truth" as you call it, comes not from Scripture but rather from commentary.