Jesus teaches that regeneration precedes faith

[JIM]

That post reads much better without the six unnecessary words.

I keep reading comments about the spirit being dead. Have you got something actually from scripture actually, specifically, explicitly stating a person spirit is dead, killed by sin? I just did a search of "dead" and "spirit" in the entire Bible and of the eight verses containing both words not a single one of them states the spirit is dead in any sinner. In the absence of any such scripture let me suggest you stop belaboring a premise that has no basis in scripture.

Alternatively, Carbon's question is answered in scripture very plainly and he's not confused, he's endeavoring to help you see what is plainly stated and discard what is not.

.
John 3:5-8
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

So the answer to the question askes is "born of the spirit." As I believe was point out earlier by someone the Greek, "gennethe anothen" is more accurately translated "born from above," not the more simplistic "born again."


No confusion needed, wanted, or existent.

It is not "born of the spirit"; rather it is the spirit that is born of the Spirit.

 

[Carbon]

It is not "born of the spirit"; rather it is the spirit that is born of the Spirit.

good grief!

 

[Josheb]

The spirit is indeed killed by sin (Eph 2:1); the spirit is then made alive again in regeneration (John 3:1-8; John 5:24-25; Eph 2:5-6 and elsewhere). The spirits of Adam and Eve died in day that they ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Gen 2:17).

Well then, let's take a look at those verses.

Ephesians 2:1
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,

The person was dead. No mention of their spirit being dead.

John 3:1-8
Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?" Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

No mention of the word "dead" at all. Definitely nothing stating the spirit is dead or killed.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Nothing. No mention of the word "dead," and nothing stating the spirit is killed or dead.

Ephesians 2:4-7
But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

There is the use of the word "dead," but it does not state the spirit is dead. It says the person, not the spirit is dead.


So, by my count, zero successes for five attempts. The notion of "spiritual death" is not a term found anywhere in scripture. Used often. Almost always an abuse of scripture.

Now..... you want to give it one more try or concede the point: there is no scripture explicitly stating anyone's spirt has been killed by sin. The body without the spirit is dead (Jms. 2:26).

 

[Josheb]

It is not "born of the spirit"; rather it is the spirit that is born of the Spirit.

good grief!

He's all yours. I did my time.

 

[Josheb]

Yes Carbon it is indeed sad that you are so terribly, terribly confused by something so integral to the very meaning and nature of salvation to eternal life with Christ.

At least you are not alone; Josheb is as thoroughly confused about the whole issue as you.

ad hominem noted and given all the reply it deserves...



















.

 

[JIM]

He's all yours. I did my time.

And you did it wrong.

 

[JIM]

Well then, let's take a look at those verses.

Ephesians 2:1
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,

You think Paul is speaking of being physically dead and then made physically alive together with Christ (Eph 2:5). ? ? ? ? ? That has to be the height of misunderstanding.

I am only now beginning to understand why Calvinism is so calamitously wrong in its soteriology. That is. if what you are proclaiming here actually Calvinism.

 

[JIM]

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Nothing. No mention of the word "dead," and nothing stating the spirit is killed or dead.

 

[makesends]

Yes Carbon it is indeed sad that you are so terribly, terribly confused by something so integral to the very meaning and nature of salvation to eternal life with Christ.

At least you are not alone; Josheb is as thoroughly confused about the whole issue as you.

C'mon, now. Don't leave me out! Can I please be as confused as they?

 

[Carbon]

And you did it wrong.

No. It seems you just weren’t considering what he said.

 

[Josheb]

You think Paul is speaking of being physically dead and then made physically alive together with Christ (Eph 2:5). ? ? ? ? ? That has to be the height of misunderstanding.

Another example of failing to understand what is posted and assigning other meanings based on you own biases. I'm not interested.

I am only now beginning to understand...

The posts prove otherwise. You think everyone but yourself is confused, repeatedly put words into others' posts they didn't write, make claims about scriptures that prima facie do not state what they are made to say, refused to state agreement where possible, and think ad hominem and scapegoating are rational arguments.

That does not evidence understanding of anything.

 

[justbyfaith]

@justbyfaith



When the Holy Spirit quickens one with new life, they are saved, thats regeneration Titus 3:5

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Drawing is the New Birth, being made a new creature, then they go to Christ out of a new heart

drawing enables one to receive the new birth, it does not guarantee it (read your Bible).

 

[justbyfaith]

Do you feel mixed up?
You should because you have it backward. You are stripping words of their meanings and changing the order.

No, I think that you are the one who is doing that.

The scripture clearly states, in Romans 5:2, that we enter into grace by faith, not the other way around.

 

[brightfame52]

drawing enables one to receive the new birth, it does not guarantee it (read your Bible).

Sorry, but Drawing is the New Birth.

 

[brightfame52]

No, I think that you are the one who is doing that.

The scripture clearly states, in Romans 5:2, that we enter into grace by faith, not the other way around.

We do enter into the Grace we already stood in by Faith, after we are born again and given faith

 

[donadams]

Scripture says we are saved by grace. Does it not? So, what is your issue?

By grace, through faith.

Just keep denying it.

Where does say by “faith alone”?

 

[donadams]

Of course. The spirit is the only thing born again in regeneration. It is only the spirit that is dead in trespasses and sins that needs to be made alive again (born again, regenerated).

How does one become “born again”? Thanks

 

[Carbon]

Where does say by “faith alone”?

For by grace you have been saved through faith.

Do you see it now?

 

[makesends]

Where does say by “faith alone”?

Where do the 5 solas say it? It is a misquote to cut a whole statement into pieces, some of which you leave out.

 

[JIM]

How does one become “born again”? Thanks

By being saved. And that by believing in God.