Jesus teaches that regeneration precedes faith

[JIM]

Scripture please?

Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Carbon]

Did you just say that I ridiculed someone?

Haha. Yea I guess I did

But you know what I meant. Don’t be ridiculous

 

[Arial]

Yes how about the subject?

It’s does not refer to salvation but to redemption!

I trust you are even more confused now?

Maybe this will help

Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

eph 2:8 does not refer to you’re salvation it’s already past tense when Paul wrote it so it refers something that has already occurred, the redemption accomplished by Christ apart from our involvement. “Not of yourselves”

Not your faith either but justification includes the gifts of faith hope and charity thru the sacrament of baptism

Redemption:
The First redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

At the hour of death separation from the grace of God by apostasy / rejection of Christ or failing to repent of serious sin a man is lost in damnation! Or

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Thanks

When did thinking clearly and reason cease to be the norm? That is what I would like to know.

 

[justbyfaith]

How about Matt 28:19?

Remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost isn't absolutely promised in Matthew 28:19 as it is in Acts 2:38-39.

 

[brightfame52]

You said so???

Yes I said it, just like you said it

 

[donadams]

Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Justification not salvation

Redemptionw:
The First redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

At the hour of death separation from the grace of God by apostasy / rejection of Christ or failing to repent of serious sin a man is lost in damnation! Or

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Thanks

 

[donadams]

When did thinking clearly and reason cease to be the norm? That is what I would like to know.

Does it refer to your personal faith and salvation?

 

[donadams]

Remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost isn't absolutely promised in Matthew 28:19 as it is in Acts 2:38-39.

Implies it in the Christian sacrament of baptism in the name of the father, son, and the holy ghost

 

[Arial]

Does it refer to your personal faith and salvation?

Does what refer to my personal faith and salvation?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

It doesn't say anything about who God is giving to Jesus, or why.

In other words, there's nothing here to show whether God is(n't) using some criteria to choose. Conditionaliting isn't disproven.

So the "U" in TULIP should be discarded since it means NOTHING.

 

[makesends]

So the "U" in TULIP should be discarded since it means NOTHING.

You ready to admit yet, that your argument is about semantics, and not about the substance of the doctrine?

Trolling, trolling, trolling — rawhide.... Yeeehaw!

 

[justbyfaith]

Implies it in the Christian sacrament of baptism in the name of the father, son, and the holy ghost

That name is singular according to Matthew 28:19 and Acts 2:38 reveals to us what the name is.

 

[JIM]

Justification not salvation

I am not sure what your point is. But salvation is justification, regeneration and sanctification. Justification, regeneration and (initial) sanctification are each different elements of salvation, but with the death of Christ on the cross and the establishment of the new covenant, all three occur at one and the same instant in time. Thus, if one has been justified, then he has also been regenerated (born again) and initially sanctified. Similarly for being regenerated and sanctified.

 

[donadams]

Does what refer to my personal faith and salvation?

Eph 2:8

 

[Arial]

Eph 2:8

Yes

 

[donadams]

That name is singular according to Matthew 28:19 and Acts 2:38 reveals to us what the name is.

Are you denying the divinity of Christ and the trinity?

 

[donadams]

I am not sure what your point is. But salvation is justification, regeneration and sanctification. Justification, regeneration and (initial) sanctification are each different elements of salvation, but with the death of Christ on the cross and the establishment of the new covenant, all three occur at one and the same instant in time. Thus, if one has been justified, then he has also been regenerated (born again) and initially sanctified. Similarly for being regenerated and sanctified.

No there are different and happen at different times

Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21
Includes regeneration new creation in Christ.

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

 

[donadams]

Yes

So you were saved over 2000 years ago?

It says not your faith! Not of yourselves

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

Haha. Yea I guess I did

But you know what I meant. Don’t be ridiculous

I didn't know what you meant at all, actually. The fact is that I didn't ridicule anybody because I am not that kind of person. So I think you probably interpreted what I said wrongly. Then you went on to ridicule me.

 

[Carbon]

I didn't know what you meant at all, actually. The fact is that I didn't ridicule anybody because I am not that kind of person. So I think you probably interpreted what I said wrongly. Then you went on to ridicule me.

Isn’t it obvious I misspelled the word?