Jesus teaches that regeneration precedes faith

[brightfame52]

Jesus made no such statement. More importantly, no other author of the Scriptures has ever made such a statement either. That "Truth" as you call it, comes not from Scripture but rather from commentary.

Its scriptural, you just cant believe it.

 

[JIM]

Its scriptural, you just cant believe it.

You say it is scriptural, except that scripture doesn't say it. You say it; scripture does not.

 

[donadams]

For by grace you have been saved through faith.

Do you see it now?

No scripture never says “faith alone”

Except “not by faith alone”!

Because faith is required you leap to the conclusion that it is “faith alone”!

Scripture that opposes “Faith alone”!

Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 water & the spirit
Jn 15:4 abide in Christ
acts 2:38-39 repentance & baptism
acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
acts 22:16 name of the Lord & baptism
rom 10:10 faith & confession
1 cor 13:2 faith & charity
1 cor 13:13 faith, hope, & charity
1 cor 16:22 love of Jesus Christ
Rom 8:17 faith and suffering
2 Timothy 2:12
1 thes 1:3 faith, love, patience / 2 thes 1:4 / 1 Tim 6:11 /
Col 1:24 sufferings
Philemon 1:5 love and faith
Phil 1:29 called to suffer not faith alone
Titus 2:2 faith, love, patience
James 2:24 faith & works
Heb 6:12 faith & patience / rev 13:10
Rev 2:19 works, charity, service, faith, patience
Rev 12:17 testimony of Jesus & commandments
Rev 2:19 & rev 13:10 & Rev 14:12 commandments & patience
Three things are eternal! 1 cor 13:13

Faith, Hope, & Charity!



1 Thessalonians 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

1 Timothy 6:11
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Revelation 2:19
I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

 

[Mr GLee]

But it almost never is the truth which is one reason why there are so many divisions within Christendom.

The important thing that we all must always keep in mind is that everything except a direct quotation from Scripture is personal interpretation, i.e., commentary. And even that is subject to the nuances of the various interpreter groups that produce the different translations.

In answering any question concerning any topic in the Bible, the first thing that should be looked for is "What does the Bible say?" Thus in answer to the question in the opening post, "Jesus teaches that regeneration precedes faith", the first thing that should be noted is that Jesus made no such statement.

Yes it must be rightly dividing if we are to seek His unseen approval according to the loving commandment 2 Timothy 2:15

The faith of Christ comes by hearing God, as it written. . . . . . . The exclusive power of salvation

His power of faith proceeds''' his works and it was good

"Let there be" and the temporal seen "it was God good ".

Jesus loving commanded us to marvel not a man must be born again .

You must be thinking of the first birth it proceed our second and final

 

[brightfame52]

You say it is scriptural, except that scripture doesn't say it. You say it; scripture does not.

I gave scripture, not my problem if doesnt work for you.

 

[Carbon]

No scripture never says “faith alone”

Except “not by faith alone”

Well, okay maybe I missed something?

So help me out here.
“For by grace you have been saved through faith.”
Is something missing from Eph 2:8?
By grace we are saved through faith ………+?

 

[Carbon]

I gave scripture, not my problem if doesnt work for you.

Yep. That’s a fact

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

Well, okay maybe I missed something?

So help me out here.
“For by grace you have been saved through faith.”
Is something missing from Eph 2:8?
By grace we are saved through faith ………+?

The Bible teaches both human responsibility and God's actions at the same time. "Through faith" means that humans freely choose to believe, but it is only when and until God is satisfied with them that he imputes salvation to them and works a work in them over time through the Holy Spirit convicting a person to enable them to generate a saving faith. So it's both. Not either/or.

We are saved by grace through faith. Is it only one way? If it is, everybody is a puppet. If people are just puppets, it makes no sense to talk about love, because love requires a subject and an object and a relationship between them, just like the doctrine of the trinity says that there is 1 God in 3 persons that are in relationship to each other and because there is 3 of them there can exist a similar relationship between humans and humans with God. Unless you don't agree with the concept of the trinity, in which case there is still the relationship between God and human which is based on the capacity to have love.

The word "through" is like a hyphen or middle condition between two different but complimentary positions. To interpret Ephesians properly when the original writing has no punctuation is to notice only that the condition is predicated on the word "through" since if it is only, "You are saved by grace and that not of yourselves" etc., it is redundant to add "through faith" to it. There are no passages in the New Testament that say that faith is the gift of God elsewhere than this one verse in Ephesians, and so it would be silly to take it to mean that humans are mere puppets.

 

[brightfame52]

@Dave_Regenerated

"Through faith" means that humans freely choose to believe,

Thats False, People believe by Grace, regeneration Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
They believe by the power of God Eph 1:19-20
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

 

[Carbon]

@Dave_Regenerated

Thats False, People believe by Grace, regeneration Acts 18:27

Haha, not only false but ridicules. How do people come up with such things.

 

[donadams]

Where do the 5 solas say it? It is a misquote to cut a whole statement into pieces, some of which you leave out.

“Grace alone”!
By
“Faith alone”!
In
“Christ alone”!

Do now alone don’t mean alone???
Alone: with no possibility of anything being added!

Thanks

 

[donadams]

By being saved. And that by believing in God.

Scripture please?

 

[donadams]

By the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Blessed [gratefully praised and adored] be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant and boundless mercy has caused us to be born again [that is, to be reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose] to an ever-living hope and confident assurance through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

All men are born again?

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

@Dave_Regenerated



Thats False, People believe by Grace, regeneration Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
They believe by the power of God Eph 1:19-20
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

You just confirmed what I wrote and didn't disagree with anything I said. Except you said "That's False" with grammar errors.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

Haha, not only false but ridicules. How do people come up with such things.

Did you just say that I ridiculed someone?

 

[brightfame52]

All men are born again?

False statement

 

[brightfame52]

You just confirmed what I wrote and didn't disagree with anything I said. Except you said "That's False" with grammar errors.

I disagree with this false statement:

"Through faith" means that humans freely choose to believe,

 

[donadams]

Romans 10:9-13 tells you the answer.

If that should fail, try Acts 2:38-39.

How about Matt 28:19?

 

[donadams]

Well, okay maybe I missed something?

So help me out here.
“For by grace you have been saved through faith.”
Is something missing from Eph 2:8?
By grace we are saved through faith ………+?

Yes how about the subject?

It’s does not refer to salvation but to redemption!

I trust you are even more confused now?

Maybe this will help

Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

eph 2:8 does not refer to you’re salvation it’s already past tense when Paul wrote it so it refers something that has already occurred, the redemption accomplished by Christ apart from our involvement. “Not of yourselves”

Not your faith either but justification includes the gifts of faith hope and charity thru the sacrament of baptism

Redemption:
The First redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

At the hour of death separation from the grace of God by apostasy / rejection of Christ or failing to repent of serious sin a man is lost in damnation! Or

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Thanks

 

[donadams]

False statement

You said so???